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Time to Leave Wyndham

Figure ROI if investing the initial 30k and having a $0.00 sunk cost without buying up to VIP. Then factor costs if renting from a VIP owner that passed along the 50-60% discount and free upgrades. Disclaimer: This worked out better before Wyndham eliminated the abuse of VIP owners using resale points with developer benefits.
True!
 
I learned a lot on TUG and from others. If I recall, Ron was one who comes to mind who had a lot of knowledge. There are ways to maximize your points if you know how the system works and find and use the loophole before Wyndham makes a policy change to plug them.

Like I said at the beginning of this thread, Wyndham has been wonderful; wonderful to us and for us. In the mid 90's, $30K was a lot of money for one million points, but as I look back, it was worth it. Many say, buying a timeshare isn't an investment. In our case it was because of how we used it and the way we used it; in Florida during the winter months at half points as snowbirds.
Ron came along later. I happened to give him a heads up on buying Kauai weeks and converting them, but I didn't figure it out myself, BocaBum99 and Jya-Ning and a few others helped me make decisions after discovering that Wyndham took over PAHIO. We owned a couple of PAHIO weeks and were offered a conversion and then did it again by buying additional weeks. It was great until it wasn't.
 
Remember though that $30k invested in the S&P 500 back in the early 1990s would be worth $2.4
Remember though that $30k invested in the S&P 500 back in the early 1990s would be worth $2.4m today.
He did say he made it back many times over. So, if he invested what he saved traveling he could have both worlds, memories and a large egg nest
 
How is your stock portfolio doing?

I don't care about his stock portfolio, but i'm dying to know how his cabal of 120 mega renters is doing... have to wonder what kind of get rich scheme or grift they are into these days. Maybe Dogecoin or something? Fancy pillows? Juice cleanses?
 
Yea, I think if you're somehow turning 1 million points into 6 months of stays, that will probably make the 30k work out. I don't know all the historic MFs vs rental rates, but assuming that things were similar or better before (many people on TUG say MFs used to be much lower than rental rates compared to today) and considering over 30 years - I could see it working out. Just assuming current MFs at CWA on a million points would put you at around $9k MFs. That's would be $1,500 a month. Usually we've been running numbers assuming around a thousand a week. Straight leases for 6 months probably aren't at $1,500 a month at anywhere with similar amenities as a lot of Wyndham locations. Forget about weekly (or is it every 2 weeks?) housekeeping. And those leases will usually charge utilities on top of that. So he was paying an average of $375 a week in MFs. This of course is in the age of "hard to beat rental rates" pricing, so let's assume things were more like 1/4 rental rates early on and slowly got worse (though I also dispute that this current rentals are cheaper than MFs is as common as the "Internet Wisdom" says it is, at least if we define it as open market, not RCI cash deals or good exchanges from another TS).

AI suggests a modest 1BR inland would run about 2x his current cost monthly, around $3,000 after utilities. Which means he's saving about $9k a year vs leasing and utilities... today. To do any sort of comparison I think I have to WAG it in todays dollars, so if we do a very rough adjustment with 30 years to 20 years ago starting at half again, so he'd be saving roughly equivalent today around $13,500 a year back then...

Asking some AI and it still seems like that retail purchase, even with getting such good rates - you can't make up a large up front investment. While AI calculates with taxes you'd have about $700k today, much less than the tax free calculation, my kinda week figuring above still only ends up with saving the equivalent of about $345,000. I suppose the turning point would be - lets say you saved $5,800 in 1993 vs renting that 6 months in 1993 dollars - would you spend that on something else or would this person invest that.

If you invested that savings, you get pretty darn close to the $30k lump sum. AI says $615,000 today. This is only considering federal taxes though, for both numbers. And it's only comparing against the most modest 1BR option, which I question if that is the right comparison. I think given how close this is - this is one case where I'd flip a coin.

Because we haven't valued the hassles with each method of snow birding 6 months - the bookings time with Wyndham vs the rental leases time in the other model. It's also pretty obvious that comparing to anything that isn't as cheap as 6 month leases gets blown out of the water, and we're assuming furnished apartments - I'm not going to even begin to work out managing your own furniture and appliance replacement schedules or half year storage etc.

After doing all that math, the only thing I am convinced of is that resale is just such a massive jump on the value vs retail and even "back when it was cheaper" gets lost in how well the stock market did over all the years.
 
I don't care about his stock portfolio, but i'm dying to know how his cabal of 120 mega renters is doing... have to wonder what kind of get rich scheme or grift they are into these days. Maybe Dogecoin or something? Fancy pillows? Juice cleanses?
Well I was thinking if he is doing good he could buy you and him TUG memberships.
 
How is your stock portfolio doing?
If you were paying attention to my arguing with the narcissistic geniuses in the tug lounge you would know my simple system and it is fine and doing what it is supposed to and grow in a up and down market producing 10% to 12% a year. So far it is up 7.1% this year. Today up 0.2%.

Thanks to profits from Micron, each of my 22 oil stocks, my bitcoin bear, my Netflix bear and my 2x Nasdaq Bull I was able to grow my safety net 17.8% this year. Taking the interest and dollar cost average daily into my losers and Space X.

A narcissistic take something that can be simple and make it complicated, uses big words and writes a page that only requires a paragraph in order to impress people.
 
Renter must be on the "special" group texts that gets alerts before we either bomb Iran or "declare victory" and profit accordingly!
 
I don't care about his stock portfolio, but i'm dying to know how his cabal of 120 mega renters is doing... have to wonder what kind of get rich scheme or grift they are into these days. Maybe Dogecoin or something? Fancy pillows? Juice cleanses?
Since you're dying to know, most walked away. Those who stayed have one thing in common which is why they stayed. Those who left are renting from them and giving them their repeat responsible renters.

The difference is those who stayed have steady renters who pay them directly so there are no service fees

The one's who left used to pay nothing to travel but now pay around $100 a night but are happier. They no longer have to deal with Wyndham and are not online everyday like some here whining about Wyndham.
 
Renter must be on the "special" group texts that gets alerts before we either bomb Iran or "declare victory" and profit accordingly!
market is up much higher than my 7.1% this year. So that would mean my inside information sucks. But if it crashes like IBM did the other day, I will be sitting pretty and having a good laugh while others cry.
 
If you were paying attention to my arguing with the narcissistic geniuses in the tug lounge you would know my simple system and it is fine and doing what it is supposed to and grow in a up and down market producing 10% to 12% a year. So far it is up 7.1% this year. Today up 0.2%.

Thanks to profits from Micron, each of my 22 oil stocks, my bitcoin bear, my Netflix bear and my 2x Nasdaq Bull I was able to grow my safety net 17.8% this year. Taking the interest and dollar cost average daily into my losers and Space X.

A narcissistic take something that can be simple and make it complicated, uses big words and writes a page that only requires a paragraph in order to impress people.
Why isn't everyone doing it then? The big money isn't running this system of yours. It is using it to manage other people's money.
 
market is up much higher than my 7.1% this year. So that would mean my inside information sucks. But if it crashes like IBM did the other day, I will be sitting pretty and having a good laugh while others cry.
Maybe you can use some of your profits to buy a TUG membership. Buy one for FloridaMan76 too.
 
Technically and legally we are not Wyndham VIP Platinum owners anymore after 30+ years of ownership. Wyndham Certified Exit was right on top of sending us the quit claim deeds. We were able to have them notarized within a week. They were returned certified mail with return receipt. The entire process took just shy of 30 days. Thank you Wyndham. It's been great.
 
That was a quick exit. If Maui turns out to be a bust for us as owners of Hono Koa, I will be looking for an easy exit as well. I am tired of worrying about using my lousy few GC's.
 
Technically and legally we are not Wyndham VIP Platinum owners anymore after 30+ years of ownership. Wyndham Certified Exit was right on top of sending us the quit claim deeds. We were able to have them notarized within a week. They were returned certified mail with return receipt. The entire process took just shy of 30 days. Thank you Wyndham. It's been great.
Happy trails to you!
 
Technically and legally we are not Wyndham VIP Platinum owners anymore after 30+ years of ownership. Wyndham Certified Exit was right on top of sending us the quit claim deeds. We were able to have them notarized within a week. They were returned certified mail with return receipt. The entire process took just shy of 30 days. Thank you Wyndham. It's been great.
What did you own and deed back to them?
 
I contacted Wyndham Cares yesterday about the Certified Exit. I was told they would take back our National Harbor contract (UDI) but wouldn't take our Bali Hai contract (Converted Floating Week) because the original was a float week for a Unit. Does that make sense? I plan to call back and talk to someone else. Also, the Wyndham person told me we could transfer the 2 contracts, and our PIC Plus to a family member for $0 (to anyone other than family would be $399) and we would maintain our VIP Gold status which is grandfathered. I definitely don't believe that! I called back and talked to a Wyndham Title person and she told me the same thing about keeping the VIP Gold status. I can't imagine they'd ever put that in writing.

So, does it make sense they wouldn't take a float week contract?
Is it believable that they would honor the grandfathered VIP status?
 
I contacted Wyndham Cares yesterday about the Certified Exit. I was told they would take back our National Harbor contract (UDI) but wouldn't take our Bali Hai contract (Converted Floating Week) because the original was a float week for a Unit. Does that make sense? I plan to call back and talk to someone else. Also, the Wyndham person told me we could transfer the 2 contracts, and our PIC Plus to a family member for $0 (to anyone other than family would be $399) and we would maintain our VIP Gold status which is grandfathered. I definitely don't believe that! I called back and talked to a Wyndham Title person and she told me the same thing about keeping the VIP Gold status. I can't imagine they'd ever put that in writing.

So, does it make sense they wouldn't take a float week contract?
Is it believable that they would honor the grandfathered VIP status?
They've regularly not accepted converted float/fixed week contracts, so it does make sense - or at least is consistent. I'm a little surprised that they won't take Bali Hai as it generally has low maintenance fees and is very appealing, but I guess Wyndham's desire to reject fixed/float contracts is stronger than the appeal of the low maintenance fees and location.

It is believable that a grandfathered VIP account can be transferred to an immediate family member (not just any relative) and retain its benefits. This is spelled out in the owner directory (Page 270 of the current 2026-27 directory). The part that is not believable is that the PIC would be transferable, because on Page 293 of the current directory (and similarly in past directories) it states that PIC Plus contracts are nontransferable.
 
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian resorts are not in cwa so they have limited use for a floating week contract.

I know someone that converted a floating Long Wharf week to points when buying cwa and they assigned the underlying week on the deed for arp.
 
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian resorts are not in cwa so they have limited use for a floating week contract.
There are a handful of Hawaiian resorts in CWA, but you're correct that Bali Hai is not one of them.
I know someone that converted a floating Long Wharf week to points when buying cwa and they assigned the underlying week on the deed for arp.
I returned a converted fixed week at Flagstaff to Wyndham via Certified Exit in 2023, but in the last year or so especially most owners with fixed/float/converted weeks are reporting being rejected.
 
There are a handful of Hawaiian resorts in CWA, but you're correct that Bali Hai is not one of them.

Good catch.

My hard copy 2019-2020 directory doesn't show any of the Hawaiian resorts as being in cwa that are now shown in the 2026-2027 online directory

I was at both Waikiki Beach Walk and Royal Garden prior to covid and they had a sales presence but they're not shown as being in cwa. Perhaps few owner's default or equity swap.
 
I know someone that converted a floating Long Wharf week to points when buying cwa and they assigned the underlying week on the deed for arp.

This is the reason to never convert an Avenue Plaza event week, as you would lose ARP for the event.
 
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