CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[DanCali]

Todays offer at SVR. We have roughly 800k options year
Retro reSale of WKV 148K options and And WMH 148K options ey plat.
get 38k flex, and everything enrolled in new Marriott.
$15k all in. chairman’s, blah blah.
Thinking about it. Better than what WKORN offered in Feb. said start is July 1. And a one time 76k of options for 2023. MF 700/ yr

I see you also own WKORVN and SVR - are those developer purchased? If so, should be at Executive or Presidential level without the retro, no?

 

[ptidman]

My wife and I are currently about to finish our stay at Sheraton Stramboat. The Conceirge offered us $300 to attend a sales presentation tomorrow morning, and we signed up. I assume they are paying us not just for the privilege of giving us information, but that they are going to try and sell us something tomorrow. But after reading through this thread it seems as though some of the details of the new program are still pretty unclear. We are Sheraton Flex owners.

We are pretty determined not to commit to anything. The conceirge promised the twoguys that do these are great guys and not high pressure. We’ll see. I’ll report back what they offer. Are there any specific questions I should ask—either that would be useful to the group, or important for me to know?

 

[TravelTime]

This last part makes it sound like MVC owners can get Staroptions. That is not something discussed anywhere else, including the Marriott tug boards. Most likely MVC owners will be able to use DC points to book Vistana weeks that were deposited into the DC exchange. There is no indication of a different mechanism.

Would it be reasonable to guess that VSE and SOs will become a legacy system? I can’t imagine why MVC would want to keep focusing on SOs and offer cross-booking for MVC owners and Vistana owners. Seems more practical to focus on the MVC booking system and selling DPs. As everyone on this forum says, the MVC program has a lot of complexity. Imagine adding even more!

 

[Negma]

I see you also own WKORVN and SVR - are those developer purchased? If so, should be at Executive or Presidential level without the retro, no?

Correct. The pitch was being able to convert the resales into the system to give more choices ( potentially 7k more MVC points) as Marriott would not do this once it goes live ( I know it’s speculation) . When at WKORVN the offer was to bring in one of the units into the system, give up a smaller resales, and 12 k. The deal here was better to retro both in. Was it better because we are in Orlando or because we are getting closer to going live? Don’t know. We do like the idea of having everything into the system for the flexibility. The part I didn’t believe was if you didn’t have some flex points you would not be able to convert anything to MVC. That just didn’t line up with what we have been hearing and reading.

 

[daviator]

The part I didn’t believe was if you didn’t have some flex points you would not be able to convert anything to MVC. That just didn’t line up with what we have been hearing and reading.

I suspect that's a story they've been telling to owners who don't have any flex points, especially since flex points are basically all they have to sell at the moment, and the sales people want to eat. But it really doesn't pass the sniff test — especially since they claim to be a month away from never selling another flex point.

 

[kozykritter]

My wife and I are currently about to finish our stay at Sheraton Stramboat. The Conceirge offered us $300 to attend a sales presentation tomorrow morning, and we signed up. I assume they are paying us not just for the privilege of giving us information, but that they are going to try and sell us something tomorrow. But after reading through this thread it seems as though some of the details of the new program are still pretty unclear. We are Sheraton Flex owners.

We are pretty determined not to commit to anything. The conceirge promised the twoguys that do these are great guys and not high pressure. We’ll see. I’ll report back what they offer. Are there any specific questions I should ask—either that would be useful to the group, or important for me to know?

The two sales people there (Jim and Scott) are definitely great guys, at least when I did a presentation with them back in the fall. After reviewing my portfolio and hearing how I used it, mine told me he didn't see any need for me to buy more. However the closer came in and was high pressure and really just a complete jerk. I hope you don't have that experience.

Did you buy your Sheraton Flex directly from Vistana purchase or is it a resale? It would be great to find out for the group which types of existing ownership would qualify to enroll in and elect DC points and if there would be a fee to do so. We've had so much speculation on that topic, particularly when it comes to resale mandatory ownerships.

 

[DanCali]

Would it be reasonable to guess that VSE and SOs will become a legacy system? I can’t imagine why MVC would want to keep focusing on SOs and offer cross-booking for MVC owners and Vistana owners. Seems more practical to focus on the MVC booking system and selling DPs. As everyone on this forum says, the MVC program has a lot of complexity. Imagine adding even more!

I don't believe so. In fact, it would be reckless and short-sighted.

You are dealing with a massive number of owners who bought Vistana because they liked Vistana. They bought weeks. They bought Flex or traded weeks for Flex. Most of them bought from the developer. Why would MVC kill the exchange system all those people like? They can always sell them on the need to own more points (for exchanges, for cruises, for status). If they kill VSN it will likely antagonize pretty much all owners and I doubt they would rush to pull out their wallets to buy the next shiny object (that is a lot less shiny than VSN to most).

I think Vistana can coexist alongside the DC exchange just like the Florida Club does.

 

[DanCali]

Correct. The pitch was being able to convert the resales into the system to give more choices ( potentially 7k more MVC points) as Marriott would not do this once it goes live ( I know it’s speculation) . When at WKORVN the offer was to bring in one of the units into the system, give up a smaller resales, and 12 k. The deal here was better to retro both in. Was it better because we are in Orlando or because we are getting closer to going live? Don’t know. We do like the idea of having everything into the system for the flexibility. The part I didn’t believe was if you didn’t have some flex points you would not be able to convert anything to MVC. That just didn’t line up with what we have been hearing and reading.

The deal of $10K retro + $5K for additional units has been around for at least several years. We bought a WKV 2BR for our retro at around $41K and could have retro'd 7 weeks with that, if we had them (in fact, IIRC the salesperson mentioned he could possibly have given us credit for the pre-sale price of ~$60K and retro'd 11 - but I might have misunderstood, and it didn't really matter in our case)

The Flex points line they gave you seems like nonsense, but the deal itself may be the best you will see in some time since with MVC the (current) spend levels are much greater to enroll weeks. They may drop those spend levels over time, but I think that's something you need to consider if you think you may ever want to enroll those weeks. 7K more points is not insignificant and Chairman vs Executive has some extra perks, but they are relatively minor. It'd be a pretty speculative, but not completely uninformed or unreasonable buy IMO.

Keep in mind that you will, presumably, already have Executive or Presidential status from your other weeks and, with access to the system, you will be able to rent more points from others as needed. It is not as flexible as electing a week for points but it's an alternative. So, I think you need to ask yourself how likely you are to convert those weeks to DC points. I answer the question in the following way (WKV 2BR Platinum as example):
(a) How many points do I get for my week? (4050 points)
(b) How much can I rent my week for and how many rented points will that cash get me ($4000-$4500 buys you about 5700-6400 points in the rental market).

So even though all my weeks are retro'd and presumably I will be able to elect points for my WKV weeks, I don't see myself doing it for 4050 points. I have a couple of other enrolled MVC weeks that I would be more likely to convert to DC points first (but the math above favors point election really with only one of my weeks) and if that doesn't suffice I can rent more, when needed. For my 2023 resrevations I ended up renting points from someone for a points reservation and plan to use or rent all my actual weeks. I could have converted one of them for points, but I needed it for 13-month window weeks booking.

Do keep in mind that points you rent from others cannot be moved again (so no banking or re-renting... use them or lose them). They are less flexible than elected points which can be banked or rented out.

Good luck with your decision - I think you can justify it either way!

 

[sharr7]

My wife and I are currently about to finish our stay at Sheraton Stramboat. The Conceirge offered us $300 to attend a sales presentation tomorrow morning, and we signed up. I assume they are paying us not just for the privilege of giving us information, but that they are going to try and sell us something tomorrow. But after reading through this thread it seems as though some of the details of the new program are still pretty unclear. We are Sheraton Flex owners.

We are pretty determined not to commit to anything. The conceirge promised the twoguys that do these are great guys and not high pressure. We’ll see. I’ll report back what they offer. Are there any specific questions I should ask—either that would be useful to the group, or important for me to know?

I think one of the biggest questions right now if anyone gets an honest/helpful salesperson (lol) is where they will "draw the line" on what ownership types are able to convert into MVC/DP from Vistana/SO. There's been speculation/reports all over the board:
1. Must actually own DP before you can exchange
2. Must own (direct) Flex product
3. Any direct or retro/requalified ("in network") week or Flex package
4. Anyone eligible to use SOs (i.e., mandatory weeks including un-enrolled/non-qualified)
5. Any owner including voluntary resale, perhaps to maximize trades into MVC such that MVC owners get maximum use of "new" Vistana trades

I think most agree the line is likely to fall around 3 or 4. However, sales have definitely been using the threat of 1 or 2 to give people FOMO. Are there other factors involved in eligibility, like Elite level?

Additionally we lack clarity on how the fees will work. We expect a slight increase in what's now the VSN fee ($155-$215) as they standardize network fees with MVC; the benefit is some of the "a la carte" fees will disappear (banking, guest fees, etc.). Will there be a fee to convert to and use MVC/DP network in addition to the new/updated program fee? What will it be?

 

[Negma]

The deal of $10K retro + $5K for additional units has been around for at least several years. We bought a WKV 2BR for our retro at around $41K and could have retro'd 7 weeks with that, if we had them (in fact, IIRC the salesperson mentioned he could possibly have given us credit for the pre-sale price of ~$60K and retro'd 11 - but I might have misunderstood, and it didn't really matter in our case)

The Flex points line they gave you seems like nonsense, but the deal itself may be the best you will see in some time since with MVC the (current) spend levels are much greater to enroll weeks. They may drop those spend levels over time, but I think that's something you need to consider if you think you may ever want to enroll those weeks. 7K more points is not insignificant and Chairman vs Executive has some extra perks, but they are relatively minor. It'd be a pretty speculative, but not completely uninformed or unreasonable buy IMO.

Keep in mind that you will, presumably, already have Executive or Presidential status from your other weeks and, with access to the system, you will be able to rent more points from others as needed. It is not as flexible as electing a week for points but it's an alternative. So, I think you need to ask yourself how likely you are to convert those weeks to DC points. I answer the question in the following way (WKV 2BR Platinum as example):
(a) How many points do I get for my week? (4050 points)
(b) How much can I rent my week for and how many rented points will that cash get me ($4000-$4500 buys you about 5700-6400 points in the rental market).

So even though all my weeks are retro'd and presumably I will be able to elect points for my WKV weeks, I don't see myself doing it for 4050 points. I have a couple of other enrolled MVC weeks that I would be more likely to convert to DC points first (but the math above favors point election really with only one of my weeks) and if that doesn't suffice I can rent more, when needed. For my 2023 resrevations I ended up renting points from someone for a points reservation and plan to use or rent all my actual weeks. I could have converted one of them for points, but I needed it for 13-month window weeks booking.

Do keep in mind that points you rent from others cannot be moved again (so no banking or re-renting... use them or lose them). They are less flexible than elected points which can be banked or rented out.

Good luck with your decision - I think you can justify it either way!

Thank you for the thoughtful and complete response. We are probably going forward with this as the bonus options of 76k for next year easily get us at least an additional week of vacation and take a little sting out of the $$. We do not normally buy extra points or rent, as much as we plan, I don’t like the extra hassle ( I know it is not as a pain as I think). But it does give us more flexibility going forward and over time some more perks. A little more spoiling is good.

 

[TravelTime]

I don't believe so. In fact, it would be reckless and short-sighted.

You are dealing with a massive number of owners who bought Vistana because they liked Vistana. They bought weeks. They bought Flex or traded weeks for Flex. Most of them bought from the developer. Why would MVC kill the exchange system all those people like? They can always sell them on the need to own more points (for exchanges, for cruises, for status). If they kill VSN it will likely antagonize pretty much all owners and I doubt they would rush to pull out their wallets to buy the next shiny object (that is a lot less shiny than VSN to most).

I think Vistana can coexist alongside the DC exchange just like the Florida Club does.

I was not thinking they would ”kill” VSN. I was thinking perhaps it would become a legacy system that would still be maintained for existing owners but they would put most of their time and effort into the MVC system.

 

[DanCali]

I was not thinking they would ”kill” VSN. I was thinking perhaps it would become a legacy system that would still be maintained for existing owners but they would put most of their time and effort into the MVC system.

Is that's what you meant then I agree. I think we can expect the reservation system to be maintained (hopefully well) but no new enhancements. Phone support will hopefully continue for those who need it. They will probably merge the Owner Modifications departments to take care of resales, and that will be it.

 

[TravelTime]

Is that's what you meant then I agree. I think we can expect the reservation system to be maintained (hopefully well) but no new enhancements. Phone support will hopefully continue for those who need it. They will probably merge the Owner Modifications departments to take care of resales, and that will be it.

Yes this is exactly what I meant.

 

[timsi]

Does anyone know if one can buy now from Vistana with the condition to requalify FUTURE resale weeks? For us it is not ideal to requalify some of our current resale weeks (1 BR platinum EY or 2 BR EOY) but we may buy another resale week later this year.

 

[VacationForever]

Does anyone know if one can buy now from Vistana with the condition to requalify FUTURE resale weeks? For us it is not ideal to requalify some of our current resale weeks (1 BR platinum EY or 2 BR EOY) but we may buy another resale week later this year.

The only way to do it is they delay closing by 6 months. MVC offered to do that for us so that we had time to buy resale and then getting the week enrolled. They said that they would document it so that it was legally binding.

 

[ptidman]

The two sales people there (Jim and Scott) are definitely great guys, at least when I did a presentation with them back in the fall. After reviewing my portfolio and hearing how I used it, mine told me he didn't see any need for me to buy more. However the closer came in and was high pressure and really just a complete jerk. I hope you don't have that experience.

Did you buy your Sheraton Flex directly from Vistana purchase or is it a resale? It would be great to find out for the group which types of existing ownership would qualify to enroll in and elect DC points and if there would be a fee to do so. We've had so much speculation on that topic, particularly when it comes to resale mandatory ownerships.

Our salesman was a friendly 60ish guynamed Peter, and then a younger guy, Conrad, came in with the deal. (Side note, I thought Conrad disrespected Peter several times—“Where you going with that Peter?”) Anyhow, the pitch to us was that Vistana owners (we bought directly from Vistana) are getting a great deal with the new program, and that now was the time to buy Vistana because in June they would no longer be selling any Vistana points, just Marriott, and we wouldn’t get nearly as good a deal

But they said regardless of whether we bought anything or not, we will be able to convert our Vistana options to the Marriott points. Our 67,100 Vistana flex options converts to 1960 points in the Marriott system. They showed us several examples of what we could do with that many points. It’s hard to compare exactly because the Marriott system seemed much more fine grained—the same room can cost lots of different amounts depending on the specific week.
They said we were good to go, whether we purchased anything or not. We can continue to use our star options on Vistana properties, just as we always have, or, beginning in 23 reserve the Marriott properties.

They first tried to get us to basically double what we had, and gain elite status, which would let us reserve 13 months out. That was a hard no. A lot of money, a lot of maintenance fee. The least the could sell us was 20,000 Star options and it was going to cost us about 10K. Again, that was a no.

That’s from memory. I was I had taken a picture of the sheet they always do with their figures jotted down. There were some other incentives—Bonvoy points, “promos” that let us purchase 330000 Bonvoy points for $2295.

One last humorous note. At one point they commented how great it was that they now knew for sure when the program began and they had a “hard date” they could absolutely count on. I said, “You have an exact hard date when the program starts?” Pause. “ We’ll,no, but it’s definitely going to be in June.”

 

[kozykritter]

Our salesman was a friendly 60ish guynamed Peter, and then a younger guy, Conrad, came in with the deal. (Side note, I thought Conrad disrespected Peter several times—“Where you going with that Peter?”) Anyhow, the pitch to us was that Vistana owners (we bought directly from Vistana) are getting a great deal with the new program, and that now was the time to buy Vistana because in June they would no longer be selling any Vistana points, just Marriott, and we wouldn’t get nearly as good a deal

But they said regardless of whether we bought anything or not, we will be able to convert our Vistana options to the Marriott points. Our 67,100 Vistana flex options converts to 1960 points in the Marriott system. They showed us several examples of what we could do with that many points. It’s hard to compare exactly because the Marriott system seemed much more fine grained—the same room can cost lots of different amounts depending on the specific week.
They said we were good to go, whether we purchased anything or not. We can continue to use our star options on Vistana properties, just as we always have, or, beginning in 23 reserve the Marriott properties.

They first tried to get us to basically double what we had, and gain elite status, which would let us reserve 13 months out. That was a hard no. A lot of money, a lot of maintenance fee. The least the could sell us was 20,000 Star options and it was going to cost us about 10K. Again, that was a no.

That’s from memory. I was I had taken a picture of the sheet they always do with their figures jotted down. There were some other incentives—Bonvoy points, “promos” that let us purchase 330000 Bonvoy points for $2295.

One last humorous note. At one point they commented how great it was that they now knew for sure when the program began and they had a “hard date” they could absolutely count on. I said, “You have an exact hard date when the program starts?” Pause. “ We’ll,no, but it’s definitely going to be in June.”

Thanks for the report back! As a fellow Sheraton Flex direct purchaser, I'm going to be encouraged by what you were told. I have a Encore-related required sales presentation at a MVC property next weekend so your report will arm me against any skewed info that comes out of their mouths

Yes, 20,700 is the minimum Flex purchase because that is the lowest option cost to reserve a week in VSN (15K for SSR hotel room doesn't count) and as a policy they don't sell a contract for less than a week equivalent. It is the same reason that you can't make a Flex deposit into II for less than 20,700 options.

 

[daviator]

Our salesman was a friendly 60ish guynamed Peter, and then a younger guy, Conrad, came in with the deal. (Side note, I thought Conrad disrespected Peter several times—“Where you going with that Peter?”) Anyhow, the pitch to us was that Vistana owners (we bought directly from Vistana) are getting a great deal with the new program, and that now was the time to buy Vistana because in June they would no longer be selling any Vistana points, just Marriott, and we wouldn’t get nearly as good a deal

But they said regardless of whether we bought anything or not, we will be able to convert our Vistana options to the Marriott points. Our 67,100 Vistana flex options converts to 1960 points in the Marriott system. They showed us several examples of what we could do with that many points. It’s hard to compare exactly because the Marriott system seemed much more fine grained—the same room can cost lots of different amounts depending on the specific week.
They said we were good to go, whether we purchased anything or not. We can continue to use our star options on Vistana properties, just as we always have, or, beginning in 23 reserve the Marriott properties.

They first tried to get us to basically double what we had, and gain elite status, which would let us reserve 13 months out. That was a hard no. A lot of money, a lot of maintenance fee. The least the could sell us was 20,000 Star options and it was going to cost us about 10K. Again, that was a no.

That’s from memory. I was I had taken a picture of the sheet they always do with their figures jotted down. There were some other incentives—Bonvoy points, “promos” that let us purchase 330000 Bonvoy points for $2295.

One last humorous note. At one point they commented how great it was that they now knew for sure when the program began and they had a “hard date” they could absolutely count on. I said, “You have an exact hard date when the program starts?” Pause. “ We’ll,no, but it’s definitely going to be in June.”

I think you get the award for best owner update, because based on everything I have read and believe to be true, you were not lied to, at least not significantly, and that’s a rarity. It warms my heart to think that there are one or two honest timeshare sales people out there. I hope they have food to put on their table at night.

And it might even be true that the cost of buying Destination Points – maybe the only thing they will sell beginning in July – will be greater than the cost of buying a comparable equivalent of Westin or Sheraton Flex today. I haven’t done the math but my impression is that MVC ownership, which used to be quite a bit cheaper than Vistana ownership, has become pricier in recent years. But it seems like that just points to buying resale or renting any additIonal points you might need as more cost-effective options to buying DP from MVC.

I will bet anyone a dollar that almost as soon as they stop selling Vistana-specific products, they will start using that as a tactic to get existing owners to trade in their deeded weeks or flex points, plus some cash, for a DP- based ownership. “We are phasing out VSN” they will say. And this line will work on plenty of people.

So why would you want to give them more money today for a product that they’re going to tell you is obsolete tomorrow? (I disagree that VSN is going to go away in the foreseeable future, but I’m predicting that its reputed demise will become part of the MVC sales pitch.)

 

[tamu_bu]

Could be June 1st or June 84th or later!!!

 

[DanCali]

Got some info at an MVC Owner update that MVC owners will be able to book Vistana resorts for 2023 reservations (Jan 1 or later checkin) starting July 1 (or June 31 if you prefer ).


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[William Seward]

When you purchase a resale MVC property do the Marriott (DC) point come with the purchase or is it just that property? Can you purchase floating weeks? Also, can you purchase just points for your profile?

Scenario:
I have 148,100 Westin points, that I squired through the developer. I've been told via this forum that that will most likely convert to 6,200 to 6,300 points. I've been wondering about the Executive level at 7,000 points. My home resort presented me with two option for getting additional points. Both option cost over $40,000. I'm am wondering about the option of purchasing a resale of additional point to acquire the additional 700 to 800 points that are needed. I see the advantage of a lower level resale purchase of acquiring the additional points.

Bill Seward

 

[vacationtime1]

When you purchase a resale MVC property do the Marriott (DC) point come with the purchase or is it just that property? Can you purchase floating weeks? Also, can you purchase just points for your profile?

Scenario:
I have 148,100 Westin points, that I squired through the developer. I've been told via this forum that that will most likely convert to 6,200 to 6,300 points. I've been wondering about the Executive level at 7,000 points. My home resort presented me with two option for getting additional points. Both option cost over $40,000. I'm am wondering about the option of purchasing a resale of additional point to acquire the additional 700 to 800 points that are needed. I see the advantage of a lower level resale purchase of acquiring the additional points.

Bill Seward

Assuming your 148100 StarOption contract is allowed to enroll in the DC, you can then buy 1000 DC points on the resale market for about $7,000 all in.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Got some info at an MVC Owner update that MVC owners will be able to book Vistana resorts for 2023 reservations (Jan 1 or later checkin) starting July 1 (or June 31 if you prefer ).


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I hope that is not true. But I think you are joking because of the June 31st thing.

 

[VacationForever]

@William Seward Resale MVC week does not convert to DC points unless enrolled through a developer purchase. Buying 1000 MVC DC points resale should get you over the 7000 points for Executive. They are sold in blocks of 250 and for existing owners, the minimum is 1000 points.

 

[DanCali]

I hope that is not true. But I think you are joking because of the June 31st thing.

I was not joking. Got that info at an update.

The June 31 part was a joke in reference to the post promo or to mine from @tamu_bu


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