CLOSED: Thread Dedicated to the Upcoming/Anticipated Integration of Vistana & Marriott Ownerships (Marriott Link + Vistana Discussion)

[VacationForever]

This is all about sales opportunities. And the way to sell this is access to 60+ new resorts, flexibility in usage, and creating fear that what you have now will go away.

But all that has nothing to do with taking inventory from VSN into the DC. They can sell the DC to existing MVC and VSN owners even if they don't have a single Vistana week in the DC inventory. The point is that, once this is launched, they can legitimately advertise that you can find Vistana weeks in the DC exchange (which would be true - there will be VSN weeks there if owners elect DC points), they can say that what you have now will/can go away (which is true if most VSN owners went the DC exchange route) and they can say a lot of other things that would technically be true if certain conditions materialized. But there is no reason to grandfather weeks unnecessarily (from their perspective) just to get inventory. Likewise, there is no need to artificially move any VSN inventory into the DC because if you don't find VSN weeks in there you have no idea why... Did they get picked up by another owner? Did that inventory never exist? Maybe someone else had those dates on a waitlist? Lack of inventory is actually another selling opportunity - "buy more points and then you can book it because you will have a higher Elite status!"

VSN inventory may get impacted over time but I would attribute that to owner behavior rather than MVC playing tricks on owners. They don't have much to gain from that.

They will have quite a bit of inventory from Flex even when owners do not elect DC points.

 

[jabberwocky]

When you convert to Bonvoy points, doesn’t the hotel side get use of your time for booking as a hotel room? If true, as they have devalued the Bonvoy points this becomes more profitable to the hotel side.

I believe that MVC makes rooms available through the hotel side when there is a conversion, but I believe the timeshare side retains most of the revenue and give the hotel side a commission when rented. I know with defaulted weeks they will rent them out through the hotel website, MVC keeps the revenue and pays the association for the MF.

I’m pretty sure the Bonvoy points are purchased from the hotel side as this is a common commercial arrangement (and where a lot of rewards programs make their money - think airlines and credit card reward programs).

For those who have purchased from the developer you know that you get certificates to buy a large block of Bonvoy points at a “discount” (used to be a good deal before repeated devaluations). You aren’t buying those points directly from Marriott (hotel side) - you are buying them from MVC who then deposits them into your Bonvoy account. MVC in turn purchases the points from Marriott.

 

[dioxide45]

I know with defaulted weeks they will rent them out through the hotel website, MVC keeps the revenue and pays the association for the MF.

I don't think MVC pays the association the MF in this scenario. Thus why bad debt is passed on to other owners. When weeks go unreserved, usually at the 75 day mark, MVC can take control of that inventory and do with it whatever they wish. Any revenue they make from it is 100% profit after paying any fees associated with listing and renting on Marriott.com. Either the inventory was from defaulted ownerships or owners who paid their fees but didn't use their week.

 

[jabberwocky]

I don't think MVC pays the association the MF in this scenario. Thus why bad debt is passed on to other owners. When weeks go unreserved, usually at the 75 day mark, MVC can take control of that inventory and do with it whatever they wish. Any revenue they make from it is 100% profit after paying any fees associated with listing and renting on Marriott.com. Either the inventory was from defaulted ownerships or owners who paid their fees but didn't use their week.

Okay. Maybe I read that wrong - so you’re saying that if the week gets rented out on a defaulted unit the association picks up the costs and Marriott keeps all the revenue from the rental? I thought MVC would pay MF for the weeks that they rented out successfully but if it isn’t then the association is left holding the bag and passes the bad debt costs on to others? (Recognizing that it is usually lower season weeks that won’t rent for above their MF).

 

[robertk2012]

I don't think MVC pays the association the MF in this scenario. Thus why bad debt is passed on to other owners. When weeks go unreserved, usually at the 75 day mark, MVC can take control of that inventory and do with it whatever they wish. Any revenue they make from it is 100% profit after paying any fees associated with listing and renting on Marriott.com. Either the inventory was from defaulted ownerships or owners who paid their fees but didn't use their week.

Why is that even legal?


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[dioxide45]

Why is that even legal?


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Because the developer wrote the rules when they created the resort and the resort CC&Rs.

 

[DanCali]

Why is that even legal?


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Because they made it legal - this is from the "Reservation Rules"

Developer and Club Operator Reservations. The reservation rules may create one or more Reservation Periods during which the Developer and/or the Club Operator may reserve any Use Period in a Club Unit that nobody else has reserved and that no other persons have the exclusive right to reserve. This means the Owners and Other Club Members may have to compete with the Developer and/or the Club Operator for a reservation. This Reservation Period may not start more than sixty (60) days before the Check-in-Day of a Use Period. It may overlap with other Home Resort or Club Reservation Periods.

 

[dioxide45]

Okay. Maybe I read that wrong - so you’re saying that if the week gets rented out on a defaulted unit the association picks up the costs and Marriott keeps all the revenue from the rental? I thought MVC would pay MF for the weeks that they rented out successfully but if it isn’t then the association is left holding the bag and passes the bad debt costs on to others? (Recognizing that it is usually lower season weeks that won’t rent for above their MF).

That is my understanding. The only time that MVC reimburses the HOAs for defaulted fees is when they have setup a buyback program for taking back foreclosed inventory. In the cases where the HOA forecloses on a week, MVC will buy the week back and reimburse the HOA for legal fees and past due fees. MVC is then free to resell that inveontry. Usually by conveying it to the trust and selling the points. Not all resort HOAs have foreclosure buyback programs in place with MVC. MVC also suspended most of these programs when the pandemic hit, though they may have restarted some of them by now.

 

[robertk2012]

Because they made it legal - this is from the "Reservation Rules"

Developer and Club Operator Reservations. The reservation rules may create one or more Reservation Periods during which the Developer and/or the Club Operator may reserve any Use Period in a Club Unit that nobody else has reserved and that no other persons have the exclusive right to reserve. This means the Owners and Other Club Members may have to compete with the Developer and/or the Club Operator for a reservation. This Reservation Period may not start more than sixty (60) days before the Check-in-Day of a Use Period. It may overlap with other Home Resort or Club Reservation Periods.

That doesn’t say they don’t pay for it


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[dioxide45]

That doesn’t say they don’t pay for it


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But it doesn't say they do and they aren't under any obligation to do so. A company looking to maximize profit is certainly going to take all the free inventory they can. Much of it may not even rent or rent for less than the fees. They would be losing money if they reimbursed the resort for lost fees. We have "bad debt" listed on our MF budgets for a reason.

 

[DanCali]

That doesn’t say they don’t pay for it


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But it doesn't say they do and they aren't under any obligation to do so. A company looking to maximize profit is certainly going to take all the free inventory they can. Much of it may not even rent or rent for less than the fees. They would be losing money if they reimbursed the resort for lost fees. We have "bad debt" listed on our MF budgets for a reason.

He beat me to it again...

 

[Mowogo]

There are so many weeks available on the resale market so I do not see that they need to give away free enrollment to Vistana owners when they can re-purchase weeks very inexpensively for little to nothing. Even the expensive Maui weeks are “pennies” (relatively speaking) to re-purchase compared to what they cost to book in DPs. I have noticed a huge amount of pending sales for Marriott and Vistana on Redweek. I do not see many pending sales for Hilton or Hyatt, for example. Could Marriott be buying back aggressively to stock the trust?

See this link about what @JIMinNC posted about MVC’s strategy.

A Few Tidbits from Marriott Vacations Worldwide 1Q22 Earnings Call

There were a few interesting tidbits that TUGgers may find interesting from Marriott Vacations Worldwide CEO Steve Weisz, President John Geller, and CFO Tony Terry during their 1Q2022 Earnings Call today: 1) On the new combined product offering: "At the end of March, we began pre-marketing our...

tugbbs.com

Marriott seems to be relatively neutral as far as how the transition affects resales. With the Hilton points adjustment I think a lot of educated resale owners are letting things work through the system before jumping back in. In addition Hilton recently added language that has the potential for all resales since April to start losing core HGVC benefits.

 

[rickandcindy23]

What keeps you from seLing some timeshares and starting to spend more time at home?

We are retired, we travel because that was always the goal. We hold onto our house because it's where our kids grew up. But I am leaning toward a townhouse, so we can travel as much as we want and not worry about the yard. The yard is the only thing we worry about.

 

[rcv82]

We are retired, we travel because that was always the goal. We hold onto our house because it's where our kids grew up. But I am leaning toward a townhouse, so we can travel as much as we want and not worry about the yard. The yard is the only thing we worry about.

We have a fairly large townhouse now, and it is wonderful for travel. We can basically just close the door and leave. We are in the process of getting a house built. I’m going to try and keep it as low of maintenance yard as I can, but it will still be not as easy as the townhouse to leave for an extended trip.


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[TravelTime]

We have a very large home on some acreage. It is just as easy to me as a smaller home or townhouse. We used to live in a smaller home and we also used to have a townhouse. Our bigger house actually stays cleaner. Smaller spaces seem to gather more dust and pet hair. Or maybe it is just more obvious since it is the same amount of pet hair in a smaller space. We have someone who comes every 2 weeks to take care of the landscaping and someone to clean the house. We can lock and leave. Our biggest issue is finding a pet sitter. I do not see why having a townhouse is any easier. Just curious why others say that?

 

[DanCali]

I've always wondered what you do with mail when you travel 20-30 weeks a year? Do you forward it? Do you hold it? I never had too much trust in USPS to get these things right...

 

[Mulege]

We are retired, we travel because that was always the goal. We hold onto our house because it's where our kids grew up. But I am leaning toward a townhouse, so we can travel as much as we want and not worry about the yard. The yard is the only thing we worry about.

Off forum topic. Moderator remove???

 

[pchung6]

I've always wondered what you do with mail when you travel 20-30 weeks a year? Do you forward it? Do you hold it? I never had too much trust in USPS to get these things right...

I usually ask my nice neighbor to collect my mails and put in the drawer near the main door. Then I have my relatives come and check these mails like a month. For the yard, I have a gardener comes twice a month.

 

[dioxide45]

I've always wondered what you do with mail when you travel 20-30 weeks a year? Do you forward it? Do you hold it? I never had too much trust in USPS to get these things right...

When we lived in Ohio, we would put it on hold and pick it up when we returned. We started to do the same after we moved to Florida but after we returned one time we never received the mail that was held. Who knows where it went. Now we don't hold it, we just let them keep stuffing it in the box and pick it up when we return. There will often be days go by that I don't even bother to get the mail when we are at home. Informed Delivery tells me if anything important is coming. Which also tells us that someone is stealing our Disney AP Passholder Magnets. We can see them in USPS informed delivery, but they never hit our mailbox.

 

[slip]

We have a very large home on some acreage. It is just as easy to me as a smaller home or townhouse. We used to live in a smaller home and we also used to have a townhouse. Our bigger house actually stays cleaner. Smaller spaces seem to gather more dust and pet hair. Or maybe it is just more obvious since it is the same amount of pet hair in a smaller space. We have someone who comes every 2 weeks to take care of the landscaping and someone to clean the house. We can lock and leave. Our biggest issue is finding a pet sitter. I do not see why having a townhouse is any easier. Just curious why others say that?

If you already have someone coming in and doing yard work then it would be just as easy as a townhouse. But if you do that work yourself, you either have to find a friend or pay someone. Most businesses charge a lot when you are not on their rotation. If you can even find someone. Snow removal is the same way. I never wanted to bother friends with that stuff.

Now that we are in a condo, we just lock the door and leave. Yardwork is all done for us. I believe it's the same with most townhouses.

 

[VacationForever]

Regarding mail, we try to have all bills and statements be paperless. If we are gone for under 30 days, we simply do a hold mail and deliver to us on the last day of hold mail. When we used to live in a condo (2nd home) where we were away for 3 to 4 months at a time, we gave our keys to our neighbors to bring in mail and flush our toilets.

 

[TravelTime]

If you already have someone coming in and doing yard work then it would be just as easy as a townhouse. But if you do that work yourself, you either have to find a friend or pay someone. Most businesses charge a lot when you are not on their rotation. If you can even find someone. Snow removal is the same way. I never wanted to bother friends with that stuff.

Now that we are in a condo, we just lock the door and leave. Yardwork is all done for us. I believe it's the same with most townhouses.

Yes basically it is just extra yard work in a home vs a condo or townhouse. If you own a home, you really need someone to take care of the yard anyway. It is relatively inexpensive and if you travel a lot, people could build it into the budget. If you can afford 20+ weeks of travel a year, you can probably afford at least a mow and blow if not more.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I've always wondered what you do with mail when you travel 20-30 weeks a year? Do you forward it? Do you hold it? I never had too much trust in USPS to get these things right...

We got a PO box at a UPS store down the street.

 

[slip]

Yes basically it is just extra yard work in a home vs a condo or townhouse. If you own a home, you really need someone to take care of the yard anyway. It is relatively inexpensive and if you travel a lot, people could build it into the budget. If you can afford 20+ weeks of travel a year, you can probably afford at least a mow and blow if not more.

I had 2 acres to mow In Wisconsin and my driveway was 100 yards long. It would have cost a fortune to have someone do it. If you could even find someone. I always did all the yardwork in my homes. I honestly didn't know anyone who paid someone to do their yard work. Heck, for decades I did mine and my father's. Maybe it's just a small town Midwest thing.

I rent most of my weeks so I didn't travel 20 weeks. I only had 5 weeks of vacation and my last 10 years in Wisconsin I did travel all 5 weeks but only 3 trips, two 2 week trips and one 1 weeks trip.

 

[Eric B]

Will Marriott do my yard work while I'm vacationing at a Vistana resort as part of the integration? I hadn't seen anything on that possibility yet....