Thoughtlessness is Depressing Me

[heathpack]

Or not even respond at all. You are too busy with your Mom.

Yes that's what I've decided to do. Nudging her towards caring about my Mom, or at least following societal norms and inquiring about something that is important to me before seeking help about something that is important to her, is pointless. She is rude and self-absorbed and I am not going to change that.

I will help the dog get good care if its a fairly minimal effort of my part. But responding to the updates in order to validate that the dog is being treated appropriately- nope. Responding will just send a message that her behavior is acceptable, and invite more interaction of this type on an on-going basis. No thanks.

 

[DaveNV]

Yes that's what I've decided to do. Nudging her towards caring about my Mom, or at least following societal norms and inquiring about something that is important to me before seeking help about something that is important to her, is pointless. She is rude and self-absorbed and I am not going to change that.

I will help the dog get good care if its a fairly minimal effort of my part. But responding to the updates in order to validate that the dog is being treated appropriately- nope. Responding will just send a message that her behavior is acceptable, and invite more interaction of this type on an on-going basis. No thanks.

Send her a consultation bill. That will certainly get a response.

Dave

 

[jackio]

I am sorry for your troubles, heathpack, and I'm glad your mom is recovering. Your story resonates with so many people, in so many ways. Your emotional investment with your relatives is obviously not equal to theirs.
I have attended Nar-anon meetings, and they tell you that you cannot change the behavior of others, but for peace you have to change your reaction to their behavior. They also teach this in AA, Al-Anon, Al-Ateen.
There have been challenging times in my life when I thought the people who would step up and be there front and center, were not. It was very hurtful. But then, like in your mom's case, there were people, some that I barely knew, that showed up with supporting words, cards, phone calls, etc. It didn't erase the hurt, but it surely helped.
I admire you for helping with SIL's dog, even though in tit-for-tat, she doesn't deserve it. You are a good person.

 

[geist1223]

I am sorry for your problems. But because of what I went through several years ago when my Mom started having strokes ending up in dementia care and the lack of assistance from my 3 brothers I am not surprised. Just before my Mom's last big stroke that caused her to be placed in dementia care none of them could be bothered to come visit for her 80th Birthday. So it was myself, my wife, and several friends that knew my Mom celebrating her 80th Birthday. She did ask about her 3 other sons but I had no answer.

 

[dago]

Wow. I too am going through this. As most of you know my wife has dementia and I had to put her in a memory care facility for her safety. She has been there since Sep of last year. Her sister (her only sibling) who is 3 years younger has NEVER asked about her nor has she ever visited her. She doesn't even ask how I am doing. I don't know why and honestly, I don't care. In return, I don't give her any updates. My friends and acquaintances always ask how we are doing and always willing to help wherever they can, along with my sister, who lives in Mass. All she can do is talk to her on the phone, but that is very admirable.

I am pretty much in agreement what all the prior posters have said.

My dad once told me a long long time ago "you can pick your friends, but you can't pick your relatives. Sad, but true.

As DAVENV said. "Let it go". Worrying about will only increase your stress and you need to keep your stress level low and take care of yourself. A therapist, or in my case a support group can be quite helpful.

 

[nerodog]

Yes that's what I've decided to do. Nudging her towards caring about my Mom, or at least following societal norms and inquiring about something that is important to me before seeking help about something that is important to her, is pointless. She is rude and self-absorbed and I am not going to change that.

I will help the dog get good care if its a fairly minimal effort of my part. But responding to the updates in order to validate that the dog is being treated appropriately- nope. Responding will just send a message that her behavior is acceptable, and invite more interaction of this type on an on-going basis. No thanks.

Exactly and she is so self absorbed in her universe that she might miss the point all together. However, she will see you haven't responded. It'd be ideal if she reached out but again, some people just don't see beyond themselves. Good luck.

 

[nerodog]

Send her a consultation bill. That will certainly get a response.

Dave

Lololol....good one!

 

[JudyH]

It’s very hard when one is a care giver type of person ( like I am). I wish everyone would do like I do. I took care of my mother in my late teens when she was dying, my sister did nothing. My sister did nothing for our father years later. I took care of my mother in law for years, one of her daughters did nothing. I even put hurricane shutters up for the older man next door. You are a caregiver too and it’s so hard to be so far away and have not much control over things. She sounds like she is in a good facility and that’s a big help.

 

[dsmrp]

@heathpack, hope your mother continues to improve.
I don't mean to excuse your aunt's response, but I have seen similar behavior,
even from my own mother. I think when elderly people hear of health events
of their peers and family of their own age, it reminds them of their own mortality.
Some denial occurs. They know that at their age, the chances are lower of going
back to the way things were before the event. I think as your mom recovers,
and can call your Aunt to say she's well & ready to talk, they'll get back to their weekly calls.

My mother herself was close to her 2 younger sisters, and cooked many meals for them & husbands
while they were all in their 70's to mid-80's. Yet after my uncle passed away, my mom
was reluctant to talk to my aunt on the phone. Maybe she didn't want to get sad or break
down over the phone. Culturally my mom's generation and family were not big talkers
about sad events. They are pretty sanguine and accepting since they had a good long life.

 

[dsmrp]

as my father-in-law used to say, some people are 'givers' and others are 'takers'.

 

[dago]

It’s very hard when one is a care giver type of person ( like I am). I wish everyone would do like I do. I took care of my mother in my late teens when she was dying, my sister did nothing. My sister did nothing for our father years later. I took care of my mother in law for years, one of her daughters did nothing. I even put hurricane shutters up for the older man next door. You are a caregiver too and it’s so hard to be so far away and have not much control over things. She sounds like she is in a good facility and that’s a big help.

It takes a special person to be a caregiver. I applaud you for stepping up and doing it.
For 2 years I was a caregiver for my wife who has dementia. But after 2 years I couldn't handle it. It was overwhelming and jeopardizing my health, both mentally and physically, so I had no choice but to put her in memory care. I didn't like doing it, and I sometimes still feel guilty, but I know I did the right thing.

 

[JudyH]

It takes a special person to be a caregiver. I applaud you for stepping up and doing it.
For 2 years I was a caregiver for my wife who has dementia. But after 2 years I couldn't handle it. It was overwhelming and jeopardizing my health, both mentally and physically, so I had no choice but to put her in memory care. I didn't like doing it, and I sometimes still feel guilty, but I know I did the right thing.

I know that’s why I was a social worker for a career.

 

[VegasBella]

I'm sorry you and your mom are going through this.

 

[easyrider]

I'm the person who just tells others what bothering me when things really bother me. No guessing and not too many things really bother me. Often times I'm told I'm bothering those that are bothering me and talking it out often gets us past it. Occasionally some people become so bothersome or insulted after bringing an issue up that I just let them go. Eventually, they come back around if it is meant to be.


Bill

 

[heathpack]

I'm the person who just tells others what bothering me when things really bother me. No guessing and not too many things really bother me. Often times I'm told I'm bothering those that are bothering me and talking it out often gets us past it. Occasionally some people become so bothersome or insulted after bringing an issue up that I just let them go. Eventually, they come back around if it is meant to be.


Bill

SIL texted me again yesterday, asking for more advice on how to proceed with the dogs medical care. Still no inquiry as to how Mom is doing, or how I am doing. I’ve had 20 texts from her since Sunday, 18 of which I haven’t replied to. I would like to respond to zero but she’s entering a realm of veterinary care that I know a lot about, and she knows nothing about. Her instincts as to how to proceed are wrong, and more likely to result in the dogs death. However my most recent text was to the effect of “it’s your decision, take my advice or don’t”. Honestly she has my advice, now she can act on it if she chooses. I really don’t care. Morally, my obligation is to make sure she has good info so that she can make informed decisions, and to also give her my experienced recommendation. Where she goes from there is up to her, she’s free to make bad decisions- it’s her dog and her money (well… actually…. my deceased brothers money, since she’s never worked a day in her life… but that’s another gripe for another day…).

So what would I say to her? “Your behavior is completely awful for these reasons.“ Then give her a list? Why would I do this? So she can pretend to change to get more help with the dog?

Id rather have her just be who she is, so I don’t get sucked into a ridiculous cycle of her changing her behavior in a fake way to get what she wants, then me being obligated to talk her through all this stuff with her dog.

The only one who might be receptive to my talking honestly with her in my cousin. Maybe I will, but I have some higher priority conversations I’d rather have right now, and I’m double busy at work since I was away.

 

[TheHolleys87]

SIL texted me again yesterday, asking for more advice on how to proceed with the dogs medical care. Still no inquiry as to how Mom is doing, or how I am doing. I’ve had 20 texts from her since Sunday, 18 of which I haven’t replied to. I would like to respond to zero but she’s entering a realm of veterinary care that I know a lot about, and she knows nothing about. Her instincts as to how to proceed are wrong, and more likely to result in the dogs death. However my most recent text was to the effect of “it’s your decision, take my advice or don’t”. Honestly she has my advice, now she can act on it if she chooses. I really don’t care. Morally, my obligation is to make sure she has good info so that she can make informed decisions, and to also give her my experienced recommendation. Where she goes from there is up to her, she’s free to make bad decisions- it’s her dog and her money (well… actually…. my deceased brothers money, since she’s never worked a day in her life… but that’s another gripe for another day…).

So what would I say to her? “Your behavior is completely awful for these reasons.“ Then give her a list? Why would I do this? So she can pretend to change to get more help with the dog?

Id rather have her just be who she is, so I don’t get sucked into a ridiculous cycle of her changing her behavior in a fake way to get what she wants, then me being obligated to talk her through all this stuff with her dog.

The only one who might be receptive to my talking honestly with her in my cousin. Maybe I will, but I have some higher priority conversations I’d rather have right now, and I’m double busy at work since I was away.

I agree with you!

Take care of yourself and your mom.

 

[easyrider]

So what would I say to her? “Your behavior is completely awful for these reasons.“ Then give her a list? Why would I do this?

For you, letting your family member know you need help taking care of your mom might get you that help. I don't know the person you are dealing with and my experience is sometimes you are better off not even asking some people for anything because they are the problem , so there is that issue. Only you would know.

You could just ask for help without explaining past issues and see how it goes. I did this alot. Often times helpers need directions to be helpful. If the goal is more help then explaining things you don't like might not get you that help. I always made a point to acknowledge help which seemed to encouraged people to help more.

We went through this with my wiles family as her parents went through the dwindles. It took about six years and in those years we had many issues between family members on almost everything. Most of the time, family members would tell me their issue in the same way I explained mine and we could try to resolve them. Many issues are still smoldering but are no longer a problem.

I have explained to some people why their actions are inconsiderate when I'm finally done putting up with their crap. At this point I would rather not deal with them.

I know it's a hard time and in no way am I being critical of whatever you do. We all deal with issues in our own way and everyone has issues.

Bill

 

[jjking42]

Sounds like your mom has a good group friends and is in safe place. If she wanted, she could probably move closer to you but it sounds like she is happy were she is. Something that I have had to learn in my life is " Don't take offense when non is intended." So many times we become offended by something someone says or does or doesn't do. We think its personal and they did it because they don't like us or they are trying to hurt our feelings. But most of the time that's not the case. They are not trying to offend anyone or send any kind of message . They may be dealing with their own issues or perhaps the are just lazy , selfish, self absorbed, who knows what. When I feel offended or hurt I usually take the direct approach and ask them the question " are you trying to offend me or hurt my feelings." At that point I dont really care what the answer is anyway.

I will say that people in general these day are more selfish, divisive, and have less empathy for other people.

 

[heathpack]

For you, letting your family member know you need help taking care of your mom might get you that help. I don't know the person you are dealing with and my experience is sometimes you are better off not even asking some people for anything because they are the problem , so there is that issue. Only you would know.

You could just ask for help without explaining past issues and see how it goes. I did this alot. Often times helpers need directions to be helpful. If the goal is more help then explaining things you don't like might not get you that help. I always made a point to acknowledge help which seemed to encouraged people to help more.

We went through this with my wiles family as her parents went through the dwindles. It took about six years and in those years we had many issues between family members on almost everything. Most of the time, family members would tell me their issue in the same way I explained mine and we could try to resolve them. Many issues are still smoldering but are no longer a problem.

I have explained to some people why their actions are inconsiderate when I'm finally done putting up with their crap. At this point I would rather not deal with them.

I know it's a hard time and in no way am I being critical of whatever you do. We all deal with issues in our own way and everyone has issues.

Bill

As I mentioned previously, I don’t need help. My Mom has all of her physical, logistical, and medical needs met.

But she’s going through a tough time psychologically. Not that she’s expressed this overtly to me- but from things she says that make me understand she is concerned about loss of independence and mobility.

It would be nice if her close relatives could show some emotional support right now- reaching out, calling, or texting.

I don’t have any tasks for anyone to do. I would like folks to be considerate and compassionate. I have zero interest in advising grown adults as to how to behave. Which is very unlikely to be a successful endeavor anyway, unless the nature of the relationship is that your role go to teach those other folks how to behave. None of these relationships are like that, so Nope. Not my role and not worth going there.

 

[heathpack]

Sounds like your mom has a good group friends and is in safe place. If she wanted, she could probably move closer to you but it sounds like she is happy were she is. Something that I have had to learn in my life is " Don't take offense when non is intended." So many times we become offended by something someone says or does or doesn't do. We think its personal and they did it because they don't like us or they are trying to hurt our feelings. But most of the time that's not the case. They are not trying to offend anyone or send any kind of message . They may be dealing with their own issues or perhaps the are just lazy , selfish, self absorbed, who knows what. When I feel offended or hurt I usually take the direct approach and ask them the question " are you trying to offend me or hurt my feelings." At that point I dont really care what the answer is anyway.

I will say that people in general these day are more selfish, divisive, and have less empathy for other people.

Does it really matter what the intent is? The action is the same- when you can’t be bothered with your elderly ill relative, you send the message that close relationships are worthless. Or maybe this particular close relationship is unimportant. I don’t care if it’s due to laziness, self absorption or desire to insult someone. Regardless of intent, it’s disgustin/disappointing.

Im not sure where you feel like I’m offended. It’s *depressing* because I would like to think that we live in a functional, compassionate society where close relatives OF COURSE support each other.

Offended means I perceive an insult. Hurt means someone has hurt my feelings. Read the title of this thread- I am depressed by thoughtlessness. Not upset by an insult. I doubt anyones actions are anything to do with me- no one is attempting to insult me or my Mom. They are simply too uncaring to take 30 seconds to text a funny meme, or three minutes to make a call, or an hour to pick up an iPhone cable and swing it by to Grandma in rehab.

As you state in your last sentence- what I’m talking about is selfishness, lack of empathy, and caring less for actual human relationships than your divisive social/political/cultural views. The issue honestly is not with me failing to communicate directly with folks.

 

[jjking42]

Does it really matter what the intent is? The action is the same- when you can’t be bothered with your elderly ill relative, you send the message that close relationships are worthless. Or maybe this particular close relationship is unimportant. I don’t care if it’s due to laziness, self absorption or desire to insult someone. Regardless of intent, it’s disgustin/disappointing.

Im not sure where you feel like I’m offended. It’s *depressing* because I would like to think that we live in a functional, compassionate society where close relatives OF COURSE support each other.

Offended means I perceive an insult. Hurt means someone has hurt my feelings. Read the title of this thread- I am depressed by thoughtlessness. Not upset by an insult. I doubt anyones actions are anything to do with me- no one is attempting to insult me or my Mom. They are simply too uncaring to take 30 seconds to text a funny meme, or three minutes to make a call, or an hour to pick up an iPhone cable and swing it by to Grandma in rehab.

As you state in your last sentence- what I’m talking about is selfishness, lack of empathy, and caring less for actual human relationships than your divisive social/political/cultural views. The issue honestly is not with me failing to communicate directly with folks.

Sorry I did not mean to say that you were failing to communicate. What I was trying to say is don't let other peoples words, actions, or in actions get you down. I have been seriously depressed and have spent many hours in a therapists office. My depression was mostly the result of Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. All about things that happened that I had no control over. You have no control over these relatives. I hope their behavior does not result in you becoming depressed. Be angry, be sad, for a minute but don't dwell on it. Don't let their selfish behavior occupy a significant amount of your time and energy.

 

[dsmrp]

Offended means I perceive an insult. Hurt means someone has hurt my feelings. Read the title of this thread- I am depressed by thoughtlessness. Not upset by an insult. I doubt anyones actions are anything to do with me- no one is attempting to insult me or my Mom. They are simply too uncaring to take 30 seconds to text a funny meme, or three minutes to make a call, or an hour to pick up an iPhone cable and swing it by to Grandma in rehab.

Perhaps you could continue to guide, semi-direct the younger generation, e.g. nieces and nephews, who can still learn but are clueless. If your SIL is your niece's example, then I can see why your niece hasn't learned those good behaviors.
Maybe text to say "Grandma's feeling much better now and would love to hear from you, her cell number is ###". Even tho' they might have the number, a linked cell # is just one thumbpress away to call rather than expecting them to look it up. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but....

I think you handled your SIL & her dog situation very well. Sounds like she wanted confirmation from you on what she wanted to do. Likely her local vet gave her the same advice as you did, but she didn't want to follow it.

Just my opinion, but perhaps since your SIL's husband, your brother, is deceased, she thinks she has little/no obligation any longer to his side of the family? I'm not excusing her; she sounds very selfish, self-absorbed.

 

[easyrider]

It would be nice if her close relatives could show some emotional support right now- reaching out, calling, or texting.

I was just thinking these relatives might do what you want if they knew what you wanted them to do. Sorry if I'm out of line, I don't mean to be.

Bill

 

[Sandi Bo]

Is it okay to post this here? It just seemed so appropriate for this thread.

 

[DaveNV]

@heathpack I have no additional advice to offer beyond the words in my first post: Let it go. Allowing yourself to feel depressed about your relatives isn't worth the energy it takes to feel that way. Disappointed? Sure. You are absolutely entitled to feel that way. But none of this situation can be solved by any amount of conversation you could have with your relatives. Guilting or manipulating them into doing something for your Mom won't change their underlying attitudes. Your points about "false" changes to get what they want are well-considered. You have to let those adults live their lives as they see fit. Remember how they've acted in all of this, and don't allow yourself to go down this road again.

I hope your Mom continues to improve, and that you are able to focus on the important things in your life. Give your fur kids extra hugs, and know they will give you every bit of sincere affection and emotional support they can. In addition, know that your Tug friends care about you and this situation, and we would gladly help out, if we could. I learned long ago that the best families are the ones you make, not necessarily the one you're born into.

Hugs, kid.

Dave