THIS POLL IS FOR KBV OWNERS ONLY! How are you going to vote?

[DeniseM]

THIS POLL IS FOR KBV OWNERS ONLY!

This vote is private - no one can see how you voted.

We have learned that the ballots have been mailed to determine the future of the resort. How are you going to vote?

 

[tango]

The way this vote proposal is worded is making me so nervous. People have to make sure that they understand that to vote against the Special Assessment, they need to vote Yes on the Proposal not to proceed.

 

[bnoble]

We cast our votes this morning online: YES, In favor of NOT PROCEEDING and INITIATING TERMINATION.

The online voting portal is very easy to use. Sad to have to cast the vote, but glad to have my part in it complete.

 

[Uchwki7]

I already voted on-line: YES, which is a vote to "not proceeding with remediation". If the majority votes YES then they will not proceed with remediation and therefore not pay $56 Million to repair KBV. The actual costs may very well be more than that and does not include any of the furnishings.

The on-line voting is very easy and straight forward.

 

[benoma88]

This is my first post. We have owned KBV since 1998 used it every year available, and have had super great memories with children and grandchildren. Very sad to hear of the resort reaching a critical point in its functional life. The island of Kauai and KBV have been magical. We may have met many of you through the years at the weekly owners breakfast and enjoyed our conversations over coffee, donuts and papayas.
Over the years several managers and operators managed KBV, some better than others. I believe Wyndham has been a hostile operator more interested in tourism business than the folks and have not been good for the resort.
But shoddy workmanship and Mother nature has struck the final death knell to this marvelous private resort. We shall vote a peaceful demise for Pahio Kauai Beach Villas.
Can anyone explain to us and for the benefit of all owners this partition process. What happens if 75% of us vote against remediation? Are the owners forced to sell, or is the property (deed) taken from owners without compensation, or is this a condemnation ot the resort? The board of directors give very little information, and the resort do not answer these questions.
wishing all owners a propitious future!
 Ben

 

[bnoble]

Welcome to TUG!

What happens if 75% of us vote against remediation? Are the owners forced to sell, or is the property (deed) taken from owners without compensation, or is this a condemnation ot the resort?

Here's what I gathered from the letter that accompanied the ballot.

If the motion succeeds, the resort will be sold at auction as a single entity. This will be a court-ordered sale--it will not require any further approval by any of the owners, and all owners individual interests will be terminated by this process. Any proceeds from the sale, plus any insurance payout (and presumably any leftover funds in any IOA/AOAO accounts) will be distributed back to the owners in proportion to their ownership. However, if any owners have unpaid debts, those would be paid first from those proceeds.

From my perspective, this is better than I had hoped, and by a lot. I don't expect much back, but anything is basically found money. The intervals had no value on the open market well before the full extent of the problems was known. Even the 2BR oceanfront weeks were being given away for the cost of transfer fees, and those deals often included a free year of use as well. More importantly, because the auction is court-ordered, we don't have to spend time and money chasing down unresponsive owners to get them to sign over deeds or go through foreclosure to clear them--something that some other resorts have had to go through as part of their termination process.

 

[tango]

I wonder about the audience and reach of this forum. It seems that this thread has had to now 430 views, yet only 15 have voted. Seems like there are many who are keeping silent. It would be interesting to know how many owners actually follow this forum, and if there are quite a few, then most are just observers.

 

[magmue]

If each of the 15 who voted checked in to look at the totals on a daily basis, that would add up to a lot of views as well.

I debated with myself about how "anonymous" the poll truly is, since any board member - or the CEO of Wyndham for that matter - could register for TUG, vote, and see the total. I decided that what is anonymous is who has voted. And if the votes weren't 100% on one side of the issue, the way a member voted would be not obvious.

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder about the audience and reach of this forum. It seems that this thread has had to now 430 views, yet only 15 have voted. Seems like there are many who are keeping silent. It would be interesting to know how many owners actually follow this forum, and if there are quite a few, then most are just observers.

There are also those of us that are curious but don't own and won't vote

 

[TheHolleys87]

I wonder about the audience and reach of this forum. It seems that this thread has had to now 430 views, yet only 15 have voted. Seems like there are many who are keeping silent. It would be interesting to know how many owners actually follow this forum, and if there are quite a few, then most are just observers.

Some of us don’t own but have close family who do. And I wouldn’t be surprised if some who are following this closely have no ownership connection but simply love the resort and are sincerely interested in its future.

 

[Dalownerx3]

I wonder about the audience and reach of this forum. It seems that this thread has had to now 430 views, yet only 15 have voted. Seems like there are many who are keeping silent. It would be interesting to know how many owners actually follow this forum, and if there are quite a few, then most are just observers.

This thread appears in Google Search results. Google bots may count as a view.
Also, for those watching/subscribed to the thread, every time there's an update, they get an email. The views could be inflated by those checking in again on new posts.

 

[gfic]

This is my first post. We have owned KBV since 1998 used it every year available, and have had super great memories with children and grandchildren. Very sad to hear of the resort reaching a critical point in its functional life. The island of Kauai and KBV have been magical. We may have met many of you through the years at the weekly owners breakfast and enjoyed our conversations over coffee, donuts and papayas.
Over the years several managers and operators managed KBV, some better than others. I believe Wyndham has been a hostile operator more interested in tourism business than the folks and have not been good for the resort.
But shoddy workmanship and Mother nature has struck the final death knell to this marvelous private resort. We shall vote a peaceful demise for Pahio Kauai Beach Villas.
Can anyone explain to us and for the benefit of all owners this partition process. What happens if 75% of us vote against remediation? Are the owners forced to sell, or is the property (deed) taken from owners without compensation, or is this a condemnation ot the resort? The board of directors give very little information, and the resort do not answer these questions.
wishing all owners a propitious future!
 Ben

Very nice letter Benoma88. I would like to add a few extra questions that my wife and I have. We hope someone from the board will see your letter and mine and answer some of these questions. Incidentally, I just now joined this forum and this is my first post, also.

1. How many and which units are impacted?
2. Can everyone still be accommodated in units during the project?
3. Is the assessment in the chart sent to us payable immediately in one lump sum, or is it divided over the years of reconstruction?
4. Where will funding come from if all owners do not pay the assessment (a near certainty, I'm afraid)?
5. Same question as #4 in the case of cost over runs.
6. Similar to your curiosity, Ben, what about the people that own units and live in them. They don't belong to our IOA. They belong to the AOAO. I'm sure it is impossible for us to sell places that they own. The mix of full time owners and timeshare owners could really complicate a sale and degrade the value to a prospective buyer.

I feel the odds of getting 75% of the owners to vote, regardless of their position, is extremely low. My wife and I plan on voting as you. We will vote YES to not proceed with remediation. Pretty awkward wording!

Another thing we consider, that maybe some of the other owners should, also, is that we are getting old enough that 5 yrs takes a big bite out of our potential use. If this gets off to a slow start and then takes an extra year or two, that would be a disaster for us. Also, we are every other year owners, so the first year of re-open might not be our year to come.

 

[bnoble]

I'm hoping we don't have to answer any of Questions 1--5, and we won't if the current motion succeeds.

what about the people that own units and live in them. They don't belong to our IOA. They belong to the AOAO. I'm sure it is impossible for us to sell places that they own.

As for #6: This is a vote of the AOAO, not just the IOA. If the motion succeeds, then the entire property is subject to "Partition"---and that includes both the "Interval (timeshare) owners" as well as the whole owners. I am not a lawyer, but as I read this, my understanding is that a Partition means that the property is no longer a condominium with individual units that are separately owned. Instead, the entire property is sold as a single thing, and that sale is overseen by a neutral party appointed by the court. In other words, it is possible for the whole-ownership condos to be sold, even if some of those whole-owners do not want to do so--provided that 75% of the "units" vote in favor of the motion.

This is a big reason why I wrote above that "this is better than I'd hoped." A successful vote means that even if there are a few holdouts, they cannot stop the sale.

I feel the odds of getting 75% of the owners to vote, regardless of their position, is extremely low.

Again, based on my reading of the process, I do not think that's required. For starters, it's not each "owner" that is voting, but each "apartment". For example, we own two annual weeks in one of the apartments in Building G. There are roughly 48 other weeks in that apartment that are owned by as many as 48 different people (assuming they sold 50 weeks per unit). All of those people cast their individual votes, and they are combined for a single vote for that particular apartment. And, the rules for doing that are pretty interesting. From the letter:

If a majority of owners of the intervals for a unit vote the same way through the ballots provided, then the IOA Board will cast its vote for that particular unit at the AOAO KBV Special Meeting in the same manner. In the event the IOA Board does not receive ballots indicating a majority of the votes of the intervals for a unit vote the same way, then the IOA Board shall cast the vote for such unit as it determines to be in the best interest of the IOA.

So that means if 26 (or more) "individual weeks" vote Yes in Apartment G-12, then Apartment G-12's single vote will be recorded as "Yes." If 26 (or more) "individual weeks" vote No in Apartment G-12, then Apartment G-12's single vote will be recorded as "No". The interesting bit is the outcome if there aren't 26 votes either for or against, because some owners do not vote. In that case, the IOA gets to cast the vote for that apartment.

So, there will be a vote cast for every apartment in the IOA. It's possible (and maybe even probable) that the IOA Board will cast the majority of those votes directly. The IOA has not yet said how it will make that decision, beyond whatever it thinks is "in the best interest of the IOA," meaning the collective interval owners. Maybe I'm biased, but it seems pretty clear to me what is in the best interests of the collective interval owners.

Finally, I believe it is critical that we all vote, because we have the possibility of making a clear statement for our individual apartment. Furthermore, the IOA might make its decision based on the overall votes that do come in, even if there isn't a declared majority in any particular apartment. I would definitely not abstain thinking that the IOA will just take care of things the "right way." And we have already cast our votes as YES: in favor of NOT PROCEEDING WITH REMEDIATION and INITIATING A PARTITION ACTION.

 

[benoma88]

A portion of our IOA maintenance fees include insurance premiums. The discovery of poor workmanship and storm damage should be covered by casualty insurance, however it could take considerable time to flesh out what the insurance is liable for, what to mitigate and what portion insurance is willing to pay, adding to an already uncertain future.
This question may be rendered moot after a YES vote Not proceeding with remediation/Initiating partition May 2, 2023.
A side note, I received a call from Wyndham Exit Team informing me of an email from KBV IOA availing owner's desiring to give back their Deed and owner pay transfer fees - KBVownership@gmail.com. As this comes from Wyndham, I have not contacted KBVOwnership@gmail nor know anymore than the email address. We shall wait and see how the vote turns out.

 

[bnoble]

Can you say more about that phone call? Are you sure it was from Wyndham, and not from some third party? It seems odd that a corporate arm of wyndham would use a generic gmail.com address.

As to insurance: the letter mentioned that any net insurance proceeds would be part of any payout in the event of a Partition Action.

 

[dioxide45]

A portion of our IOA maintenance fees include insurance premiums. The discovery of poor workmanship and storm damage should be covered by casualty insurance, however it could take considerable time to flesh out what the insurance is liable for, what to mitigate and what portion insurance is willing to pay, adding to an already uncertain future.
This question may be rendered moot after a YES vote Not proceeding with remediation/Initiating partition May 2, 2023.
A side note, I received a call from Wyndham Exit Team informing me of an email from KBV IOA availing owner's desiring to give back their Deed and owner pay transfer fees - [redacting]. As this comes from Wyndham, I have not contacted [redacting] nor know anymore than the email address. We shall wait and see how the vote turns out.

Would Wyndham really be using a Gmail address for official communication?

 

[benoma88]

The recorded call was from Wyndham Cares Team. The email was provided to me by Wyndham given to them by KBV IOA with instructions to provide this email KBVownership@gmail.com to owners for exit options.

 

[magmue]

The "coming from Wyndham" part doesn't sound particularly suspicious - at this time last year, Wyndham Transitions was still accepting KBV weeks, even from resale owners. That changed as the level of problems at KBV became more grim, and when I called Transitions in October to inquire, KBV was no longer on their wish list.

But I agree that @gmail.com is a yellow flag. The vultures are circling, methinks.

 

[magmue]

There is a long thread in the Wyndham forum detailing the Exit/Wyndham Cares/Transitions program, with contact names and phone numbers.

Sticky - Give back your unwanted wyndham Timeshare - Wyndham Ovations / Wyndham Cares / Certified Exit

Updated this 2/2024 - here is the current link to the wyndham giveback program: https://clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com/us/en/help/certified-exit Just wanted to put this in as a sticky after my experience today with deeding back 3 points intervals using the Ovation program, it was very...

tugbbs.com

 

[dioxide45]

I wonder if this isn't some method for a bunch of HOA members to hoover up some weeks so they can get a bigger payout when the assessment fails and the timeshare is folded up and the property sold?

 

[bnoble]

I'll check with the Board using the contact us feature in the Owner's Community. If it is legit, we should find out shortly.

(However, if it is legit, it feels a little bit like double dealing, seeing as how the Board might well know how it plans to vote for units that don't have a majority of owners voting Yes or No.)

Edited to add: Maybe not. I got an out-of-office reply....from someone at Grand Pacific. So, that contact us form does not appear to be current.

 

[Dalownerx3]

The Gmail address sets off alarms for me. Anybody can create a Gmail email address.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they ask us to Venmo the “transfer fee” to the email address only not to hear back from them again.

 

[RNF]

Like all of you my wife and I haved loved KBV over the many years of ownership: I was surprised by:
a) lack of details about the $56m estimated remediation.
b) what happens to the 'YES' voting owners if the redediation goes forward. At this time, I can't imagine pouring thousands of dollars into this project. And I agree, $56m is the starting point not the ending point.
c) lack of people to contact if you had questions.

Lastly, I'm grateful for having found this forum. We are voting 'Yes' - do not proceed.

 

[RNF]

Like all of you my wife and I haved loved KBV over the many years of ownership: I was surprised by:
a) lack of details about the $56m estimated remediation.
b) what happens to the 'YES' voting owners if the redediation goes forward. At this time, I can't imagine pouring thousands of dollars into this project. And I agree, $56m is the starting point not the ending point.
c) lack of people to contact if you had questions.

Lastly, I'm grateful for having found this forum. We are voting 'Yes' - do not proceed.

PS: I have wondered ... since Wyndham bought the property and sold timeshares ... what is their liabilty as it relates to the "numerous original construction defects" never disclosed to timeshare buyers?

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

The discovery of poor workmanship and storm damage should be covered by casualty insurance, however it could take considerable time to flesh out what the insurance is liable for, what to mitigate and what portion insurance is willing to pay, adding to an already uncertain future.

In most, if not all, states there is a strict statute of limitations for discovery of construction defects, including latent defects. KBV is old enough that the threshold is almost certainly long past.

In my understanding, casualty insurance would cover repairing storm damage, with all repairs made to current standards. But casualty insurance won't cover repair of construction defects that are independent of the storm.