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the stock market is killing me!!!

irish

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i am sooo disgusted i am ready to pull everything and put it into cd's .. okay so maybe it wouldn't grow(?) as fast but i certainly wouldn't LOSE the amount i am losing EVERY WEEK with this bloody market. what do YOU think?
 

Passepartout

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It failed the 'sleep test' for me in late summer. I am not in CDs but still much more defensively aligned than I was. The problem can be that there is no clarion to tell you when to get back in.

Jim
 

pwrshift

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Join the club. I feel your pain. My financial guy advised me to sell all my banks and insurance companies a few monts back when we had a bit of a growth period. I feel It was the right advice looking at what happened to them, but I miss the 5% dividends on Canadian banks. He put he funds into 'dividend achievers' like MCD, KMB, ABT, KO, PEP, and others like that give less yield but a lot more stability...and have had a long history of increasing dividends every year.

He has also recommended annuities for 1/3 of my portfolio but I haven't agreed to that yet. The one he recommended guaranteed non indexed monthly cash for two people for 26 years and as long as one of us is still alive. If we both met that bus in 5 years or whatever, the balance of the guarantee is paid to our heirs. Might make me sleep a little better...but a half million only gets you $30000 a year with no indexing which is a payout of $780,000 over the 26 years, but nothing left after that for inheritance . There are so many different annuity types it gets confusing.
 
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artringwald

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i am sooo disgusted i am ready to pull everything and put it into cd's .. okay so maybe it wouldn't grow(?) as fast but i certainly wouldn't LOSE the amount i am losing EVERY WEEK with this bloody market. what do YOU think?
If you're disgusted with the stock market, do not sell now! Wait until it comes back up. It will always come back up. I know you may get nervous waiting for it, but now is the time to buy. Stocks are on sale. If you have bonds, sell them and buy more stocks. This is the way to make money in a volatile market. It works best when you use broad based mutual funds with low management fees like Vanguard.
 

tompalm

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Don't sell now. The market might go down another 3% until the index get to 1120. It closed at 1158 today. 1120 is the support level that it has bounced off during the last three months. If it breaks through that support with heavy volume, than it is time to sell. Most technical analysis are saying that support will hold at 1120.

The best way to see this is by looking at a chart here

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/interchart/interchart.asp?symb=SPY&insttype=Fund&time=8&freq=1

This chart shows the price of SPY which is the same as the index and you can see how the price didn't get too far below 113. The high has been the 200 day moving average and it has not broken above that. I have been trading resistance and support, or selling when it hits resistance and buying at support, but right now just waiting for it to go a little lower and pivot up. It might not go any lower than today. This market has been really difficult to predict and a lot of traders are not doing well.

I would suggest if SPY goes below 110 with heavy volume, think about selling then, but not until then. The fundamentals have not changed. Greece, Italy, and our Super Committee will play politics until someone defaults. The writing has been on the wall for months, but the market goes up and down.

Here is a better chart. http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/charts/chartdl.aspx?D5=2&DCS=2&MA0=1&MA1=2&CF=1&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&symbol=spy&nocookie=1&SZ=2&CP=0&PT=5
 
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Cruiser Too

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If you're disgusted with the stock market, do not sell now! Wait until it comes back up. It will always come back up. I know you may get nervous waiting for it, but now is the time to buy. Stocks are on sale. If you have bonds, sell them and buy more stocks. This is the way to make money in a volatile market. It works best when you use broad based mutual funds with low management fees like Vanguard.
Currently the market is so much down the toilet, it'll take quite awhile,
just to get back to 2008 balances.

Unfortunately, some of us can't "wait" till that occurs or doesn't occur.
We're already retired = No regular paycheck.
Stocks, Bonds and Mutual-Fund values have D-R-O-P-P-E-D significantly.
Thus in order to withdraw the same amount, we'll having to cash in larger quantities of less-valued "shares".

It's Brutal !!!!
 

tompalm

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I just checked the chart above and the 200 day moving average did not hold. To see it, click on Technical, Volume, simple moving average and 200 day.

Most long term technical traders will sell when the index goes below the 200 day average and buy when it goes above. Go back to 2008 and look at when you would have sold and look at 2009 of when you would have bought. It just seems to work.
 

tompalm

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Currently the market is so much down the toilet, it'll take quite awhile,
just to get back to 2008 balances.

Unfortunately, some of us can't "wait" till that occurs or doesn't occur.
We're already retired = No regular paycheck.
Stocks, Bonds and Mutual-Fund values have D-R-O-P-P-E-D significantly.
Thus in order to withdraw the same amount, we'll having to cash in larger quantities of less-valued "shares".

It's Brutal !!!!
I lost my job three years ago and still have five years until collecting social security. I am unemployed, or on early retirement and more worried about losing my retirement account than anyone I know. If you don't invest, you will loose due to inflation. Putting money in CDs or bonds is loosing compared to inflation. Maybe buy a house and rent that out. Even if the price of the house never goes up, you will beat inflation collecting the rent that you receive.

I agree that it is easy to give up on the market. I was heavily invested in the Nasdaq when it was at 5000. I sold and bought back in at 3000 and thought that I had it all figured out. Lost my shirt after 911, but most of it came back. I don't know if we will ever see 5000 again during my life time, but I still believe that the stock market should be part of a retirement account and to invest conservative.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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I have been telling my children that sometime within the next five to ten years will be the stock investing opportunity of their lifetime. It happens about every 40 to 50 years - pretty much once in every person's lifetime. For my generation it was ~1980.

Of course there aren't any whistles or sirens that say "Now is the time". But the great bull markets always start at the time when the overwhelming consensus is that the equity markets are dead, and they will never recover. The only signal that will be there is when there seems to be a unanimous consensus that the era of the existing equity markets have had their day and its time to move on the new economic models. When you go to parties and are people are surprised that you money in something so quaint and outdated as stocks and bonds - or they mock because you haven't already gotten into whatever the new model is supposed to be like all of the smart people like them have done.

In short, the time to invest in stocks is when every bit of optimism has been wrung from the market, and it feels like the stupidest possible thing to do. And since no one can precisely call the bottom of the market, it requires some guts to hang in there when it seems like everyone is right - that equities truly are dead and you should have listened to everybody.

The opportunities like that happen once every lifetime and we're coming up one soon. Personally I don't think we're there yet - there are still too many people waiting for a rebound. But I could certainly be wrong - maybe we're building a foundation now. But I think there are still excesses that need to be wrung out.
 

tompalm

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He has also recommended annuities for 1/3 of my portfolio but I haven't agreed to that yet.
Financial Advisers make the highest commissions off annuities. If he keeps pushing that, or a limited Partnership, it might be time to look for a new Financial Adviser. Maybe put some money there if you really need the guaranteed income. Some are paying better than 6% and you get locked in for life. So, if we get into a period of high inflation like we did in the 80s, 6%, or making $6000 per year on a $100,000 investment becomes worth a lot less. What looks good today, might not look good five years from now.

By the way, I think Italy or one of the European countries is selling bonds at 7%. It has already started.
 

pedro47

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Currently the market is so much down the toilet, it'll take quite awhile,
just to get back to 2008 balances.

Unfortunately, some of us can't "wait" till that occurs or doesn't occur.
We're already retired = No regular paycheck.
Stocks, Bonds and Mutual-Fund values have D-R-O-P-P-E-D significantly.
Thus in order to withdraw the same amount, we'll having to cash in larger quantities of less-valued "shares".

It's Brutal !!!!
I am retired and this market is very Brutal. Thanks God I have a part-time job with a regular paycheck and retirement check.
 

bjones9942

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First, let me start off by saying that I feel for those that are retired and are now hurting because of the market crash.

Personally, I'm enjoying the market. I worked in an industry that didn't give me too much discretionary income for many years. When the market tanked in 2008 I decided that once I was able to pay off my bills, I'd start investing. About 8 months later I opened a Sharebuilder account and have contributed every two weeks since. I figure that I am (or was) using 2011 dollars to invest at early 2000's prices. Plus the good stock picks I made are well out performing the bad ones, so my little portfolio is in the black. If the dow can push past the 12,000 mark I might do even better! In any event, for most people (myself included) the market is a long term investment. This dip will eventually be over and things will be back to 'normal'.
 

easyrider

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2009 was a good time to get out of Mutual Funds. 2006 would have been better.
It used to be that a mutual fund limited your losses because of all of the stocks that made up the fund. If a few tanked the other investments would offset the loss. So now days its been flip flopped with more losers than winners in these funds.
From what I have been reading there isn't much to look forward to in the next few years with mutual funds.
Picking individual stocks takes alot more time but is a better way to go.imo

The European countries will continue having troubles for the next few years at the very least. The German Bond auction failed this last week. Because Germany is one of the strongest economies in Europe and the bond auction failed it makes me think that the weaker economies in Europe will have difficulty raising capital.

It was just reported that the USA and other countries have pulled their people out of Syria. The Arab League has requested a no fly zone over Syria. The US Carrier George Bush has moved into a position near Syria. It looks like a Syrian liberation. This could disrupt mid eastern oil. Thats never good for mutual funds.

The Chinese economy is Dependant on world wide spending which is way down. There will be a unprecedented real estate bubble pop in China that could ruin the Chinese economy.

The USA is going to have some real problems. Employment issues, retirement issues, real estate issues, health care issues and a bunch of other problems brought on by regulations haven't really changed to the better for most.

There are just too many things happening world wide that are out of an individuals control that make stocks something that a person need to be on top of daily.imo
 

pwrshift

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. If you have bonds, sell them and buy more stocks. This is the way to make money in a volatile market.
I don't understand why everyone seems to dump on fixed income from corporate bonds. About 40% of my portfolio is in fixed income and I must say it let's me sleep at night. Every one of the bonds could be sold today for more than I paid and mature at different times...yet when cashed in I get 100% of my principle.

Here are the corporate bonds in my portfolio...I can't make this return on stocks in this market and the yields on 'safe' stocks aren't anywhere near these bonds. Selling them doesn't make sense to me.

SunLife to 2014 at 7.9%
Enbridge to 2019 at 4.77%
Transcanada to 2013 at 5.05%
Bell Canada to 2017 at 5.0%
Royal Bank to 2018 at 4.84%
Royal Bank to 2014 at 5.95%
National Bank to 2018 at 7.235%
Fairfax to 2020 at 7.25%
Bank of Montreal to 2014 at 5.474%
Scotia Bank to 2012 at 6.626%
 

Talent312

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Selling during a down-turn may not be a particularly bright idea, but...
Dumping your stocks now, will make 'em cheaper for those of us looking.
As the saying goes: Buy high, sell low.
 

artringwald

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Big Matt

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Almost nobody reports on this in the US news media. There is a huge bubble in China that will torpedo their economy. If they ever get to where some of Europe is now, watch out.....

The Chinese economy is Dependant on world wide spending which is way down. There will be a unprecedented real estate bubble pop in China that could ruin the Chinese economy.
 

caribbeansun

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Current yields frankly stink right now - best 5 year corporate bond is below 3% which is roughly inflation right now in Canada. In an RRSP they make sense, outside they don't because after tax and after inflation you're losing ground every year...just saying


I don't understand why everyone seems to dump on fixed income from corporate bonds. About 40% of my portfolio is in fixed income and I must say it let's me sleep at night. Every one of the bonds could be sold today for more than I paid and mature at different times...yet when cashed in I get 100% of my principle.

Here are the corporate bonds in my portfolio...I can't make this return on stocks in this market and the yields on 'safe' stocks aren't anywhere near these bonds. Selling them doesn't make sense to me.

SunLife to 2014 at 7.9%
Enbridge to 2019 at 4.77%
Transcanada to 2013 at 5.05%
Bell Canada to 2017 at 5.0%
Royal Bank to 2018 at 4.84%
Royal Bank to 2014 at 5.95%
National Bank to 2018 at 7.235%
Fairfax to 2020 at 7.25%
Bank of Montreal to 2014 at 5.474%
Scotia Bank to 2012 at 6.626%
 

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i am sooo disgusted i am ready to pull everything and put it into cd's .. okay so maybe it wouldn't grow(?) as fast but i certainly wouldn't LOSE the amount i am losing EVERY WEEK with this bloody market. what do YOU think?
My personal opinion is that you only lose money if you sell to lock in the loss. Everything else is paper.

On paper, I've taken a hit, too, but the dividends keep coming, so I am not the least bit disgusted with the stock market. It is built on perception and investor fears are high now.

I have no trouble sleeping at night because I am comfortable with what I own and unconcerned about day to day volatility. In fact, I'm investing more while prices are in the toilet. Solid companies on sale are more exciting to me than any Black Friday bargain.
 

ScoopLV

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My personal opinion is that you only lose money if you sell to lock in the loss. Everything else is paper.

On paper, I've taken a hit, too, but the dividends keep coming, so I am not the least bit disgusted with the stock market. It is built on perception and investor fears are high now.

I have no trouble sleeping at night because I am comfortable with what I own and unconcerned about day to day volatility. In fact, I'm investing more while prices are in the toilet. Solid companies on sale are more exciting to me than any Black Friday bargain.

I remember reading a lot of articles prior to the crash wondering why my generation was so preoccupied with dividends. Well, now everyone knows.

We just plow our dividends back into the market. There's never been a better time to buy (at least in our lifetime).
 

persia

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Yeah, even Apple is lagging now. iTunes is better than cds ;)

i am sooo disgusted i am ready to pull everything and put it into cd's .. okay so maybe it wouldn't grow(?) as fast but i certainly wouldn't LOSE the amount i am losing EVERY WEEK with this bloody market. what do YOU think?
 

geekette

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I remember reading a lot of articles prior to the crash wondering why my generation was so preoccupied with dividends. Well, now everyone knows.

We just plow our dividends back into the market. There's never been a better time to buy (at least in our lifetime).
yep, plenty of people have long considered my investment style to be seriously old-fashioned and plain ole obsolete. Buy and hold, dividends, always reinvested ... probably sounds boring. And maybe it is, but I'm not blowing profits on commissions, having to pull the trigger at the exact right moment to buy or sell, or paying the tax man for gains, and the little investments keep getting bigger. Not boring.

I have never truly lost money in the stock market. Not boring.

Best part is 20 years from now when I will take some divs in cash, some reinvested, turn the faucet on and off at will, and still have not only the original lots of shares I bought, but a lot more shares that those shares bought. And continued dividends. Not boring.

I think that maybe these days we simply don't hear about the little old ladies surviving on dividends from small amts of stock they bought 50 years ago and let ride. Time value of compounding in conjunction with dollar cost averaging is the clear direction for me. It may be a lot more exciting to be a day-trader, but I can get rich slowly instead.
 

pedro47

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My personal opinion is that you only lose money if you sell to lock in the loss. Everything else is paper.

On paper, I've taken a hit, too, but the dividends keep coming, so I am not the least bit disgusted with the stock market. It is built on perception and investor fears are high now.

I have no trouble sleeping at night because I am comfortable with what I own and unconcerned about day to day volatility. In fact, I'm investing more while prices are in the toilet. Solid companies on sale are more exciting to me than any Black Friday bargain.
You sound like my broker it is only a paper loss.
 

Mel

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I lost my job three years ago and still have five years until collecting social security. I am unemployed, or on early retirement and more worried about losing my retirement account than anyone I know. If you don't invest, you will loose due to inflation. Putting money in CDs or bonds is loosing compared to inflation. Maybe buy a house and rent that out. Even if the price of the house never goes up, you will beat inflation collecting the rent that you receive.
DO NOT speculate in real estate if you are not completely familiar with it. Just because you don't lose money on the sale of the house, there are many other expenses to consider that will eat up any rental income:

Taxes
Insurance
Maintenance (you know, what we pay for someone else to do with our timeshares?)
Commissions to your broker when yo do sell

You also get the hassle of Schedule E on your taxes, and have to calculate depreciation, which means you'll pay less taxes while you own the house, but probably considerably more when you sell it (because even if you break even, once you consider the depreciation, you may have a significant capital gain - enough to throw off any tax benefits that have a phase-out.

Real Estate is not something in which to dabble!
 

am1

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My personal opinion is that you only lose money if you sell to lock in the loss. Everything else is paper.

On paper, I've taken a hit, too, but the dividends keep coming, so I am not the least bit disgusted with the stock market. It is built on perception and investor fears are high now.

.
I like your investing style of dividends but do not understand how people can think its only a loss if one sells. When taxes are considered selling at a loss is a gain.

Stocks are the one thing where one can always look up the current price.

Is this what financial advisors tell people with loser stocks? Or do people actually believe it?
 
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