The real Lord of the Flies: what happened when six boys were shipwrecked for 15 months

[T_R_Oglodyte]

The real Lord of the Flies: what happened when six boys were shipwrecked for 15 months

When a group of schoolboys were marooned on an island in 1965, it turned out very differently to William Golding’s bestseller, writes Rutger Bregman

www.theguardian.com

 

[Ken555]

Yeah great story. This is making the rounds today...I think I’ve seen it at least five times so far!


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[Beachclubmum]

Thx for posting!

 

["Roger"]

I read this story and it is very interesting. One thought that passed my mind is that there is a middle ground between the savagery that Golding portrayed and the entirely peaceful behavior of the boys in the news story.

There is a syndrome whose name I forgot that affects small groups of isolated individuals that need to live together. They commonly end up dividing into two cliques that dislike each other (but not with any savagery.) Apparently this is what happened to the individuals that locked themselves into Biosphere 2. Perhaps this did not happen to the six boys marooned on the island because they were such a small group cliques didn't form. Not enough members for cliques. Just a thought ...

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I read this story and it is very interesting. One thought that passed my mind is that there is a middle ground between the savagery that Golding portrayed and the entirely peaceful behavior of the boys in the news story.

There is a syndrome whose name I forgot that affects small groups of isolated individuals that need to live together. They commonly end up dividing into two cliques that dislike each other (but not with any savagery.) Apparently this is what happened to the individuals that locked themselves into Biosphere 2. Perhaps this did not happen to the six boys marooned on the island because they were such a small group cliques didn't form. Not enough members for cliques. Just a thought ...

Lots of possible differences. One possibility that immediately comes to my mind is Pacific Island culture.

 

[geekette]

I read this story and it is very interesting. One thought that passed my mind is that there is a middle ground between the savagery that Golding portrayed and the entirely peaceful behavior of the boys in the news story.

There is a syndrome whose name I forgot that affects small groups of isolated individuals that need to live together. They commonly end up dividing into two cliques that dislike each other (but not with any savagery.) Apparently this is what happened to the individuals that locked themselves into Biosphere 2. Perhaps this did not happen to the six boys marooned on the island because they were such a small group cliques didn't form. Not enough members for cliques. Just a thought ...

hunters vs gatherers!

Slays great, more gittin...

 

[PrairieGirl]

Lots of possible differences. One possibility that immediately comes to my mind is Pacific Island culture.

I agree, Pacific Island culture probably had something to do with their behaviour. Years ago in Fiji we took a boat over to different island to hike to a waterfall. While waiting for the bus that would take us inland, a lady called down from her house that the bus would not be coming by for at least a half an hour and we were not to stand there in the hot sun, we must come up to her porch to wait in the shade. So we did and next thing you know we were visiting like old friends and she was offering us wonderful home baked goodies. And this kindness was not an isolated incident, we encountered it everywhere we went in Fiji. Many years later we found the same friendliness and hospitality in the Cook Islands as well.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

I agree, Pacific Island culture probably had something to do with their behaviour. Years ago in Fiji we took a boat over to different island to hike to a waterfall. While waiting for the bus that would take us inland, a lady called down from her house that the bus would not be coming by for at least a half an hour and we were not to stand there in the hot sun, we must come up to her porch to wait in the shade. So we did and next thing you know we were visiting like old friends and she was offering us wonderful home baked goodies. And this kindness was not an isolated incident, we encountered it everywhere we went in Fiji. Many years later we found the same friendliness and hospitality in the Cook Islands as well.

I have a bias, which I fully recognize and do try to actively counter, toward believing that genetics and natural selection play a larger role in human behavior than what seems to be de rigueur these days. I suspect that I wouldn't survive long on the campuses of my alma maters unless I laid low, kept my mouth shut, and sanitized all of my social media activity.

Which is a lead-in to saying that I am completely open to the notion that evolutionary pressures may have resulted in Pacific Islanders have a genetic disposition towards higher levels of social cooperation and integration to survive. In contrast, in Mediterranean and European cultures (what was called "Western Civilization" in my day), survival may have favored banding together in tribes, and subjugating or eliminating competing tribes. If that notion has some traction, that would provide a lot of illumination in conflicts in Pacific Islands, such as Hawaii, between people with Pacific Island ancestry and those with Western Civ genetic roots. (And people of mixed origins could easily find themselves in frequent turmoil.)

And those differences might even be playing out now in how Hawaii is addressing COVID-19 management

 

[artringwald]

I'd love to watch the documentary of one of the boys returning to the island.

 

[Patri]

What a shame someone didn't immediately write a book about this.

 

[Brett]

I have a bias, which I fully recognize and do try to actively counter, toward believing that genetics and natural selection play a larger role in human behavior than what seems to be de rigueur these days. I suspect that I wouldn't survive long on the campuses of my alma maters unless I laid low, kept my mouth shut, and sanitized all of my social media activity.

Which is a lead-in to saying that I am completely open to the notion that evolutionary pressures may have resulted in Pacific Islanders have a genetic disposition towards higher levels of social cooperation and integration to survive. In contrast, in Mediterranean and European cultures (what was called "Western Civilization" in my day), survival may have favored banding together in tribes, and subjugating or eliminating competing tribes. If that notion has some traction, that would provide a lot of illumination in conflicts in Pacific Islands, such as Hawaii, between people with Pacific Island ancestry and those with Western Civ genetic roots. (And people of mixed origins could easily find themselves in frequent turmoil.)

And those differences might even be playing out now in how Hawaii is addressing COVID-19 management

could be, a lot of people believe nature trumps nurture

 

["Roger"]

Not my own theory, can't remember whose, but I go with the theory that in every society people are arranged along a bell shaped curve (with, as the name implies, most people somewhere towards the middle, some kinder or more self-centered than others). To the left are the hawks, self centered, willing to take advantage of others. To the far right, the Mother Teresa's. If everyone were well behaved and trusting, the hawks would have an advantage and their genes would propagate. Too many hawks, the society becomes dysfunctional except for the minority doves who begin to strengthen in number. Over time, the center ebbs and flows to the right and left, but never too far.

It is possible that the Polynesian societies, having to live on small islands, were centered more towards the right (the doves) than Western societies, but they would have been easy pickings for a hawk among the group. Thus, there still would have been a span of behavior. As far as the boys marooned on the island, given that there were only six of them and they were friends, they could all have been more dovish in nature. Thus their success.

 

[elaine]

this got me to thinking. Middle school and HS for DD was sorta like Lord of the Flies. And the personalities fell along those groups, the leaders of the "popular" group ostracizing others, making fun of weak links, and anyone who tried to stand up to them got the full blunt turned towards them. 4 years later, my younger kids' class had nothing like that. There was still a popular group, but everyone got along fine, no one made fun of anyone like that, and no rigid social order. Can't figure it out.

 

[pedro47]

To the OP. Thanks for sharing this article.