The latest sales spin - Orlando

[piper_chuck]

Attended a sales presentation in Orlando a few days ago. The salesman's name was Patrick. Said he was a manager rather than just a regular salesman. We had a great conversation about timeshare usage, things to do on St Thomas, and info about the RCC St Thomas. At the end of the sales pitch I said I wasn't going to buy more points at this time and he promptly and politely terminated the discussion and sent in the person to offer us the Encore package. In all it was a positive experience.

Patrick's spin on why we needed to buy points came down to two main points:

1. Marriott reserves inventory that only trust owners can access. As the number of trust owners increases, the inventory I can access will continue to go down. He said when an enrolled owner buys into the trust the weeks they convert to points go into the trust pool that enrolled owners can't get to.
2. If I cross the 7,000 point level, the benefits go up significantly.

They came up with a new (to me) way of deciding the price per point. Instead of discounting the current price, they went back to my last sales presentation in 2013 and offered those prices. They said if I didn't buy then, the price at the next sales presentation would be the current prices. I don't have my notes with me, the approximate price was $15/point today, $12/point for 1,000 points, and $10 something if I bought 2,000 points. He also said they would refund my $695 enrollment fee as part of the deal.

 

[bazzap]

As ever, it would have been interesting to know Patrick's reaction if you had said yes I will buy points based on him confirming in writing that your enrolled weeks points would go into the trust points pool on equal status.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning

just another twist on the "supermorph" thing.... pure horse hockey...Yes, there is a distinct trust inventory...it doesn't stay there long!!! If you buy 1000 Trust points, only those have magical access to Trust...

Play out this scenario..you purchase 1000 pts and have access to the magical trust inventory... In 5 years MVCD..gets some new stuff and puts it in a new "supertrust" and sells more expensive points. They come back and tell you that unless you purchase Super Trust points you can't get the new stuff... sort of different from the vacation 401k sales pitch they used to make...

I don't blame the sales folk, this is the only way they can get Legacy owners to buy points... but if you didn't do it at $9.20 pt, why would you do it at $12.66

 

[NYFLTRAVELER]

"sort of different from the vacation 401k sales pitch they used to make"

I had a laugh when you mentioned that. I remember in our first two presentations (before becoming owners via purchase of resale DC points) the "401V" (a 401K for Vacations) was discussed. I guess by your reference, this was part of the then (and maybe now) sales pitch/training manual?

 

[jimf41]

What he told you is true but not complete.

Marriott reserves inventory that only trust owners can access.

True, only Trust owners can access trust inventory. What he left out was that most trust points are placed in the exchange pool where everyone with either trust or enrolled points can access them.

As the number of trust owners increases, the inventory I can access will continue to go down.

True. What he left out was that in order for you're accessible inventory to decrease MVC has to acquire some inventory from the weeks owners through ROFR or foreclosures. Of course when they do this they mostly put it into the exchange pool so then you do have access to it.

He said when an enrolled owner buys into the trust the weeks they convert to points go into the trust pool that enrolled owners can't get to.

True. Enrolled owners cannot access trust inventory directly. But then trust owners cannot access weeks inventory directly.

In June of 2010 just before MVC was created all inventory was in weeks. MVC then dumped their unsold inventory into the trust. The ratio at the time was probably something like 95% weeks 5% trust. By the time that ratio turns around they'll be selling timeshares on Mars. I'll let my yet to be born great,great, great grandchildren deal with it.

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon...


on 6/20 2010 MVCD had sold 450,000 unit/weeks out of 720,000..However, if you look atthe "good stuff" plat ski weeks, summer HHI, winter carribean, fixed hawaii weeks, then the ratio is about 95% sold....

all the unsold stuff was February in Branson... that's the beauty of these... they recolored all these mud weeks as new points which can get shiny platinum stuff... eventually, the scam will come to roost...
but this will be when Jim's great great grand kids are born....

 

[Fasttr]

good afternoon...


on 6/20 2010 MVCD had sold 450,000 unit/weeks out of 720,000..However, if you look atthe "good stuff" plat ski weeks, summer HHI, winter carribean, fixed hawaii weeks, then the ratio is about 95% sold....

all the unsold stuff was February in Branson... that's the beauty of these... they recolored all these mud weeks as new points which can get shiny platinum stuff... eventually, the scam will come to roost...
but this will be when Jim's great great grand kids are born....

I always thought this also, but was enlightened by dioxide45 in THIS post.

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon

everything in hawaii is platinum...so the rest listed in the post have to be the gold, silver and bronze...

yes I agree tons of weeks in Koolina...

doubt many plat ski weeks, summer HHI, winter Carribeabean , winter orida is in there...

 

[Fasttr]

everything in hawaii is platinum...so the rest listed in the post have to be the gold, silver and bronze...

That doesn't appear to be the case.....

From that post.... At every single other property [listed], except Ocean Watch, Platinum and higher makes up over 50% of the weeks which were conveyed.

Your are likely correct about many of the categories you listed. In fact Caribbean weeks can't be conveyed, so that is correct by definition, but the common misconception that the Trust was seeded with all mud weeks just doesn't seem to be true.

 

[rthib]

What he told you is true but not complete.

Marriott reserves inventory that only trust owners can access.

What i wonder is how come I can see the new Marriott in DC?

This is a new property, so theoretically it should only be viewable with the magic trust points?

 

[piper_chuck]

As ever, it would have been interesting to know Patrick's reaction if you had said yes I will buy points based on him confirming in writing that your enrolled weeks points would go into the trust points pool on equal status.

If I were in a position to go forward with such an offer it would have been interesting. However, at this time I do not plan to buy points, so I would not suggest such a thing.

 

[SueDonJ]

What i wonder is how come I can see the new Marriott in DC?

This is a new property, so theoretically it should only be viewable with the magic trust points?

No, they said when they announced it that it would be available, "initially as an exchange usage of their ownership through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program."

While the documents allow Marriott to hold any conveyed intervals for use only by Trust Members, their objectives are better served by allowing all inventory to be mingled in the DC Exchange Company where it can be reserved by Trust and Exchange Members. Maybe someday the Trust inventory by itself will be enough to satisfy Trust Members' usage but that day isn't now or in the foreseeable future - there are still too many high-demand Weeks at the highest-demand properties that haven't been conveyed.

 

[dioxide45]

That doesn't appear to be the case.....

From that post.... At every single other property [listed], except Ocean Watch, Platinum and higher makes up over 50% of the weeks which were conveyed.

Your are likely correct about many of the categories you listed. In fact Caribbean weeks can't be conveyed, so that is correct by definition, but the common misconception that the Trust was seeded with all mud weeks just doesn't seem to be true.

If I pull out some specific examples;
Willow Ridge Lodge: 1608 Platinum, 540 Gold, 486 Silver.
Timber Lodge: 1444 Platinum Ski, 1353 Platinum Summer, 474 Platinum, 1764 Gold
Mountainside: 2 Platinum Plus, 5 Platinum Holiday, 83 Platinum, 248 Gold, 338 Silver

These numbers are fairly current and long after the very first conveyances of unsold inventory. So if the initial conveyances at some of these proprieties were mud weeks, they have done a pretty good job at shoring up the trust with selective buybacks. I still think though that the trust was never made up of just mud weeks. It was made up of weeks that were unsalable in the current market, which at that time was just about everything.

 

[shoeie]

We just took our first ever Marriott tour while enjoying Surfwatch. Basically got the same pitch regarding trust points vs. DC points. Sales guy also represented that if purchasing trust points our DC points would magically be considered trust points also. Also essentially pitched the 401(v) thing, although he didn't call it that.

 

[Mamianka]

No, they said when they announced it that it would be available, "initially as an exchange usage of their ownership through the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program."

While the documents allow Marriott to hold any conveyed intervals for use only by Trust Members, their objectives are better served by allowing all inventory to be mingled in the DC Exchange Company where it can be reserved by Trust and Exchange Members. Maybe someday the Trust inventory by itself will be enough to satisfy Trust Members' usage but that day isn't now or in the foreseeable future - there are still too many high-demand Weeks at the highest-demand properties that haven't been conveyed.

Must be me - I do not understand this. I looked at 5 nights there - 1700 points. Since I get 2050 DCPs by converting my EOY, it would be cheaper for me to trade the Guest portion for a *week* - even if I checked out early! - and retain the Master portion for a future trade elsewhere, would it not? What part of the verbiage am I not getting?

Mamianka

 

[kds4]

Attended a sales presentation in Orlando a few days ago. The salesman's name was Patrick. Said he was a manager rather than just a regular salesman. We had a great conversation about timeshare usage, things to do on St Thomas, and info about the RCC St Thomas. At the end of the sales pitch I said I wasn't going to buy more points at this time and he promptly and politely terminated the discussion and sent in the person to offer us the Encore package. In all it was a positive experience.

Patrick's spin on why we needed to buy points came down to two main points:

1. Marriott reserves inventory that only trust owners can access. As the number of trust owners increases, the inventory I can access will continue to go down. He said when an enrolled owner buys into the trust the weeks they convert to points go into the trust pool that enrolled owners can't get to.
2. If I cross the 7,000 point level, the benefits go up significantly.

They came up with a new (to me) way of deciding the price per point. Instead of discounting the current price, they went back to my last sales presentation in 2013 and offered those prices. They said if I didn't buy then, the price at the next sales presentation would be the current prices. I don't have my notes with me, the approximate price was $15/point today, $12/point for 1,000 points, and $10 something if I bought 2,000 points. He also said they would refund my $695 enrollment fee as part of the deal.

Glad to see he offered you a 1,000 point option. We have worked with Patrick before. He enrolled one of our weeks for us and we purchased 1,000 developer points from him thereafter (to get our $2395 enrollment fee applied to the purchase price of what was $10.19/pp then). Many times sales reps won't even discuss a 1,000 point purchase option.

 

[piper_chuck]

Glad to see he offered you a 1,000 point option. We have worked with Patrick before. He enrolled one of our weeks for us and we purchased 1,000 developer points from him thereafter (to get our $2395 enrollment fee applied to the purchase price of what was $10.19/pp then). Many times sales reps won't even discuss a 1,000 point purchase option.

He did a good job and had the sales style of the reps I talked to years ago. Give information, let the customer decide, and stay courteous when it becomes obvious the customer isn't going to buy. I may buy more points in a few years, and Patrick would be a good candidate to buy from, but I have other financial priorities right now.