• Welcome to the FREE TUGBBS forums! The absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 32 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 32 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 32nd anniversary: Happy 32nd Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    All subscribers auto-entered to win all free TUG membership giveaways!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Now through the end of the year you can join or renew your TUG membership at the lowest price ever offered! Learn More!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

The definition of "Commercial" verbally defined.

Wait what? First I'm hearing this as a long time Tugger (mostly lurker)
Well, for II in general, at least for like my 2 independent resorts, you can pay a year out (some let you do 2 years out) and then can deposit them early so you get more opportunities to grab a match earlier if they show up.
 
It’s unique mainly to Sheraton Broadway Resort which Cindy owns many weeks.
Owners of units in SBR's Plantation phase (the older section in which the summer season is weeks 9-43) can reserve their deeded week 24 months in advance.

We normally think that the deeded week is irrelevant -- that only the season matters. Not so in this specific instance. This won't matter if you intend to deposit the week into Interval because Vistana will deposit an "average" week for you, but if you are going to use or rent your unit, this is a useful feature.
 
I don't mind people booking out a year, but having to pay dues 6 months early to be able to book doesn't seem right to me. I also bet unless you're on TUG, you'd have no idea that pre-paying dues would give you more booking "power".
No, it's a rule with Sheraton Broadway Resort, pre-pay your fees to book a week for the next use year. Marriott has stuck with it.
 
It’s unique mainly to Sheraton Broadway Resort which Cindy owns many weeks.
I might own 50 weeks. Selling some but it's hard to sell them, even though it's not hard to rent the weeks.

Something keeps people from buying resale what they could own and book themselves. It's a question in my mind as I rent to the same people each year. I occasionally ask these renters, "Hey, do you want to own at this particular resort? If so, I am selling."

Such a stigma in owning timeshares. The scammers are hurting the industry.
 
Last edited:
Corporate is cracking down on owners rwnting points reservations. Sales is pushing point purchases and promising you can rent out the excess. I call on owners who get this false presentation tpo post Resort, Salesperson, date, the "You can rent excess points" pitch.

A list of 20-30 presentations will help owners fight back against corporate.
 
Corporate is cracking down on owners rwnting points reservations. Sales is pushing point purchases and promising you can rent out the excess. I call on owners who get this false presentation tpo post Resort, Salesperson, date, the "You can rent excess points" pitch.

A list of 20-30 presentations will help owners fight back against corporate.
I have mentioned previously, every single presentation we have attended since 2019 (so at least 6 presentations), we have been told to buy more points, and rent them to cover MFs. Especially if we have pushed back, they have stated that so many of their clients have done this. As my husband has said to each sales person, I don't want to work so hard for vacations.
 
Marriott should look at this differently. They should look at the renters as new prospects Marriott didn't have to entice to the concierge desk. Seriously.
 
Corporate is cracking down on owners rwnting points reservations. Sales is pushing point purchases and promising you can rent out the excess. I call on owners who get this false presentation tpo post Resort, Salesperson, date, the "You can rent excess points" pitch.

A list of 20-30 presentations will help owners fight back against corporate.
The commercial language is in the contracts you sign. As is the notice that nothing said verbally counts. You can add this to the list of "their lips were moving"
 
I might own 50 weeks. Selling some but it's hard to sell them, even though it's not hard to rent the weeks.

Something keeps people from buying resale what they could own and book themselves. It's a question in my mind as I rent to the same people each year. I occasionally ask these renters, "Hey, do you want to own at this particular resort? If so, I am selling."

Such a stigma in owning timeshares. The scammers are hurting the industry.
Also, as I've said elsewhere on TUG recently, the "not TUG" part of the Internet is convinced it's cheaper to rent that the MFs are for almost everywhere. So people always rent, figuring they're saving money. Of course, I agree that the insane retail prices amortization makes very few places work out, especially if you figure lost interest on the chunks of money retail is charging. But resale is a whole other story with most, and especially if you want to go to the place every year it seems like a no brainer to own resale, unless you're like me and generally get what I need via Extra Vacations at lower than MF rates at select locations. - but that only works if you have some timeshare to put in RCI.

I.e. most people have no idea about the truth about timeshares - even if they're renting them yearly.
 
There are other avenues to access these, like the Armed Forces Vacation Club.
I thought that just offered Last Calls, not Extra Vacations. Though maybe RCI is diluting the value further IDK. I can't join AFVC as I'm not a veteran or military person.
 
I thought that just offered Last Calls, not Extra Vacations. Though maybe RCI is diluting the value further IDK. I can't join AFVC as I'm not a veteran or military person.
I don't know where the inventory comes from, I just look for what I want and if I see it, I book it. I know exactly how much it will cost and I don't have any upfront or ongoing expenses.

BTW, it says you're a TUG review veteran, that may be enough to have access.
 
I suspect that if some of those renters were going to sales presentations (and potentially becoming customers which is why they want you to invite others) they probably wouldn't be watching as closely.
 
I wonder how this will affect owners aspiring to get to the new 2 top tiers of ownership. When they rolled that out I thought that most of the owners at those levels would be commercial enterprises.
 
So why buy a lot of points? It is designed to stay small unless you don't need to rent to cover your dues. Why do the sales people tell people with a lot of points to buy more to rent them out to pay dues when they know it will be counted as commercial? You could look at it in multiple ways. I promise you that there are way more smaller owners than really big owners. I would bet the smaller owners rent out way more reservations combined than the larger owners combined. If renting is a problem why not go after all the renters? Because I bought more shouldn't mean i can't rent more... but if Marriott had defined "commercial " there would be a lot less people in this position...
Its an interesting conundrum they create for themselves. Create a product that encourages more purchases to move up in status - 15,000 points for Chairmans club, but they crack down on those that get to this level.
 
A couple of days ago I received a letter from MVC Corporate telling me that I had been flagged for being "commercial." The letter told me that my weeks would be unenrolled and that I would not be able to add another name to a reservation even if it was one of my kids or even if they were added at the time I made the reservation. Basically that my online account would cease to work and I would have to do anything by phone. The letter did say if I could prove that I wasn't renting they were willing to listen. The letter was also very direct in saying that this action only applied to my points, not my weeks, and that a "week" rental falls under how each hotel location decides to handle rentals.
I was told that these penalties would last one year. They track each account by how many name changes or additions have been made. This includes when you add a name at the time of reservation. The letter mentioned my name additions and changes based on more months than 12 which I found a little disingenuous because all the points reset every 12 months. I feel like they did this to make it look worse than it really is. I did have a phone call with corporate about all this.
When I reviewed my account, about 50% of my reservations were rentals. (I did have other name changes for my kids and friends on top of this.) This is 100% based on the fact that "sales people" told me I could rent out to help pay the dues. But I did use 50% and my argument was that if I was a commercial entity why would I use 50%. Corporate didn't care about any of this. So when a sales person tells you to buy more and rent out some to pay dues please do not believe it.
I specifically asked how "commercial" was defined and the initial response was that corporate can define it anyway they want. I did push back and was told that if I kept below 15-20 name additions or changes per year I would be ok. PLEASE keep in mind this includes anyone you add at the time of reservation. If you are renting a week they can tell it was a week rental and they do not count it.
Another flag is if you have a bunch of reservations at high value locations or dates such as Aruba, Crystal Shores, and Hawaii etc. and they will flag you even if you haven't exceeded 15-20 names. An example is you don't need 5 two bedrooms at Crystal Shores during spring break and all the name changes are different names. Also, I guess some will reserve a ton of reservations and then try and rent them out and if they don't rent they drop them 61 days out and I was told this makes it unfair to others. This is another thing they'll flag.
I brought up that I do have more than a normal amount of points etc but if I only rent 50% how does that compare to the smaller owner who rents 100%. Corporate really doesn't care that a small owner rents 100%. So my conclusion on the phone was that I am just too big. They are fine with large owners who use their points but if you need help paying the dues then you will be flagged.
At this point I am not sure what to do but I thought I'd post to help others out. And yes, I am being vague on somethings on purpose.
Take aways
1. If you don't use all your points each year, do not buy more at a sales presentation thinking you can rent them out.
2. I'd probably stay at 15 name additions or changes.
3. If you rent out a few, stay away from renting too many at the high value resorts or on high value dates.
4. If you rent out a week then none of this pertains to you. Renting weeks is controlled by your home resort.
5. I am in this boat because Marriott doesn't post what "commercial" means which I feel is unfair. "Don't cross this line but we aren't going to tell you what the line is and we are ok if our sale people tell you to cross the line.
6. I was told that Marriott can define "commercial" any way they want and all this is what I was told a week ago. BUT it could change. I wasn't given anything in writing other than the initial letter.
This type of thing strikes me as unfair, potentially illegal and certainly fodder for class action. How can they sell something to the public deemed as "ownership" and then restrict what the "owner" does with their purchase?? An owner should have the right to what ever they want with this timeshare - be it points or weeks. Use it themselves, rent it to friends, family and/or anyone else they see fit, give it away....whatever. To add insult to injury, a number of these timeshare entities seeking to restrict 'commercial rentals' regularly charge owners exorbitant fees for "guest certificates" for simply changing the check in name as instructed and all actively engage in commercial rentals themselves. The bottom line is that they don't want the competition -- if owners are renting their space for less than them or if potential new timeshare buyers figure out that there is no need to purchase when they can rent from existing owners, they lose money. They should not be able to have it both ways - don't sell timeshares to begin with if you don't want anyone else "owning" space that might compete against you.
 
no argument there, im simply pointing out that making 20 reservations for "not you or your family" in a year is not an unreasonable definition of the term "commercial"

id also bet it likely only impacts a single digit % of marriott owners.
So is there a world of His and Hers accounts, or Parent and Child accounts.
 
Are you renting weeks or points? I saw your comment, above, about renting weeks vs points. I don’t understand the reference to “how each hotel handles it."

You’d think, given the growing list of MVW operational failures, that they have more important things to focus on.
My understanding about the difference between renting "weeks" vs points is this:

When you buy a deeded timeshare week, you are a direct, legal, owner of deeded property. Generally speaking this appears to give you more rights than a timeshare company can legally restrict. As such there is very minimal control/limits over when owners rent their ownership.

However, no one is an Abound owner. Everyone in Abound, or in ANY points based trust contracts, or in ANY internal exchange program such as VSN, everyone is a member and not an owner. As such the membership can restrict anything.
 
I brought this up in my last sales pitch: that you can’t rent out your points, only weeks. The sales rep explicitly said “sure you can, I do it all the time.”

So I am very grateful that this thread exists and that OP was able to get some numbers out of them: I have a feeling it will evolve over time, and we’ll have to keep on top of it (like we, as owners, do with rofr.net) but I honestly don’t think they’d be willing to push it too hard for occasional renters. We just need to keep on top of where those “limits” are as much as possible.

(That clause of “none of the owners can rent out except the exchange company” seems like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen, though….)
 
Marriott should look at this differently. They should look at the renters as new prospects Marriott didn't have to entice to the concierge desk. Seriously.
The problem is that MVW has openly stated that their best sales prospects are existing owners. They are having a hell of a time convincing someone new of the value of ownership when they have already learned that renting from an owner is a better deal without the upfront purchase price and lifetime of MF. They are going to bleed the existing owners, which makes sense in regard to the new higher ownership tiers; they have to create a new incentive for owners to further increase their ownership.
 
Last edited:
However, no one is an Abound owner. Everyone in Abound, or in ANY points based trust contracts, or in ANY internal exchange program such as VSN, everyone is a member and not an owner. As such the membership can restrict anything.
Your comment outlines the beauty of the original Hyatt Residence club. You are a deeded owner that has an exclusive right to use your exact week and unit number - guaranteeing a great week, resort location and view. Or you can just use your equivalent number of points. To their credit, the original club rules outline renting your week was allowed, but renting points reservations is not.
 
from the Third Quarter 2025 Earning Call, November 6, 2025

(now former) CEO John Geller is on the record stating "And let's be clear. Our owners can rent the product. That is an option for the typical owner. What we're seeing is a small group of owners that appear to be running commercial businesses.”

Oddly, Geller was fired/terminated/resigned a couple of days later.

IMO, a “commercial business” implies making an ongoing and meaningful profit. Factor in the original and inflated purchase price, plus annual maintenance fees, county property taxes, and Club Dues and this ownership will never be profitable, despite any income an owner may or may not be receiving.
 
I brought this up in my last sales pitch: that you can’t rent out your points, only weeks. The sales rep explicitly said “sure you can, I do it all the time.”

So I am very grateful that this thread exists and that OP was able to get some numbers out of them: I have a feeling it will evolve over time, and we’ll have to keep on top of it (like we, as owners, do with rofr.net) but I honestly don’t think they’d be willing to push it too hard for occasional renters. We just need to keep on top of where those “limits” are as much as possible.

(That clause of “none of the owners can rent out except the exchange company” seems like a potential lawsuit waiting to happen, though….)
You can rent out points based reservations, you just can't do it commercially. Or at least that is what they are enforcing. Things start to get sticky when people start buying, and salespeople promote renting, in order to pay for all their vacations.

Reality is, what you spend the rental revenue on does not change the definition of it being commercial. Just because someone uses the profit to pay other maintenance fees doesn't make it non commercial. One could get a second job or a side hustle to pay for their maintenance fees. That side hustle would still be considered a commercial operation.
 
Happy to hear from any lawyer who wants to take this up as well as any threatened owner (GRC or otherwise). My crystal ball says this battle is not over and will become much bigger until MVW is willing to clean up their side of the street.
 
So are you actually only just using points or are you doing bonus time or something? I thought if you own timeshare you own a deed to the real estate and you're allowed to buy, sell, rent or exchange. I thought that's how the law worked with real estate? And it's not as if Marriott can say rentals aren't allowed like as if you lived in an HOA where you're not allowed to rent, That's all Marriott is is renting? I take a look at your ownership paperwork and dig into it.... Doesn't sound legal to me.
 
Top