[ 2021 ] The deed is recorded with the county, and VRI wants all kinds of Trust info?

[skimble]

We transferred the deed from my deceased parents to my son. We sent in all trustee paperwork to the county, and the deed is recorded with the county. I sent s copy of the recorded deed to VRI, and here’s their reply:

“We show title is held as ****. and **** as individuals not held in trust. In order to transfer the property we will either need a copy of the recorded deed from when *** and *** put the property into their trust plus recorded copy of the affidavit of death of trustee for both owners or you will need to go through small value probate to become the executor for the party that passed the most recent to be able to sign on behalf of their estate concerning this property. We will also need a recorded copy of the affidavit of death that removed the other party from title.

We submitted all this to the county. The county recorded the deed. Is any of this information relevant to VRI at this point? Shouldn’t they just be concerned with getting the correct address of the guy who will pay the annual fees?

 

[DeniseM]

To make a long story short: NO. When "viking ship" companies started popping up and ripping off timeshares by defaulting on the maintenance fees, management companies have become much more careful about the way deeds are titled, and who actually owns them. Sometimes management companies decline the transfer, if it looks fishy, or isn't done legally.

 

[skimble]

To make a long story short: NO. When "viking ship" companies started popping up and ripping off timeshares by defaulting on the maintenance fees, management companies have become much more careful about the way deeds are titled, and who actually owns them. Sometimes management companies decline the transfer, if it looks fishy, or isn't done legally.

This is a timeshare with very little market value. (It’s a giveaway.)

 

[DeniseM]

It's not the market value they are concerned about - it's the ongoing maintenance fees.

 

[klpca]

This is a timeshare with very little market value. (It’s a giveaway.)

Think of it as a paper trail. They need to see each step along the way. From an individual interest into the trust, from the trust to the new owner. Right now there's a skip in the trail (Individuals into the trust). Even though it's essentially worthless it's still a real estate interest (albeit a very tiny fraction of one) and the same laws apply. It may be overkill but it's a million times easier to deal with properly titled deeds as opposed to clouded ones, so I can see it from their point of view because ultimately they wind up with these clouded deeds and have to jump through hoops to fix the titling. I agree that it is ridiculous but it's probably legally correct.

 

[daverunfast]

You own a piece of the title of the property, they're making sure its transfer isn't a scam. A death certificate is the simplest way.

VRI, I believe, is still non-profit although they've been acquired by Marriott. They aren't trying to switch you out for some sketchy vacation club membership which is a good thing.

Which property?

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[JohnPaul]

VRI, I believe, is still non-profit although they've been acquired by Marriott.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

First I’ve heard of VRI being acquired by Marriott. Do you have any more info on this?

 

[daverunfast]

Privacy Policy | Vacation Resorts International (VRI) - Perfecting the Art of Hospitality

www.vriresorts.com

.



Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[daverunfast]

I don't think Marriott bought VRI intentionally, it was by-catch when they acquired ILG.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[dioxide45]

Some states and counties will literally record a napkin with words written on it. Meaning, they don't validate the ownership. So just recording of the deed doesn't necessarily indicate clear title.

 

[dioxide45]

First I’ve heard of VRI being acquired by Marriott. Do you have any more info on this?

When Marriott Vacations Worldwide acquired ILG, that purchase included VRI and a share of VRI Europe. From what I understand they have since sold their share of VRI Europe.

 

[daverunfast]

Some states and counties will literally record a napkin with words written on it. Meaning, they don't validate the ownership. So just recording of the deed doesn't necessarily indicate clear title.

Insured titles are the only clear titles. Not too many of those in the timeshare industry

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

 

[klpca]

We transferred the deed from my deceased parents to my son. We sent in all trustee paperwork to the county, and the deed is recorded with the county. I sent s copy of the recorded deed to VRI, and here’s their reply:

“We show title is held as ****. and **** as individuals not held in trust. In order to transfer the property we will either need a copy of the recorded deed from when *** and *** put the property into their trust plus recorded copy of the affidavit of death of trustee for both owners or you will need to go through small value probate to become the executor for the party that passed the most recent to be able to sign on behalf of their estate concerning this property. We will also need a recorded copy of the affidavit of death that removed the other party from title.

We submitted all this to the county. The county recorded the deed. Is any of this information relevant to VRI at this point? Shouldn’t they just be concerned with getting the correct address of the guy who will pay the annual fees?

I'm curious if there's a pour-over provision in the will and if that would essentially put the timeshare into the trust and would give you the authority to transfer the interest?

 

[dioxide45]

Insured titles are the only clear titles. Not too many of those in the timeshare industry

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

There can be a clean chain of title without title insurance. Even insured title doesn't guaranty clean title. It just means the insurance company will step in and clean it up if there was something they missed. To validate clear title, a title search is needed. But just because there isn't a title search doesn't mean the chain of title isn't clean.

What Is a Clear Title?
A clear title is a title without any type of lien or levy from creditors or other parties that would pose a question as to legal ownership. For example, an owner of a home with a clear title is the sole undisputed owner, and no other party can make any kind of legal claim to its ownership. A clear title is also called a “clean title,” a “just title,” and a “free and clear title.”

A clear title is necessary for any real estate transaction because it firmly establishes who is the property owner. Title companies must do a title search to check for claims or liens of any kind against a title before it can be deemed clear. Erroneous surveys and unresolved building code violations are two examples of blemishes that can make a title “dirty.”

 

[bogey21]

Seems to me that what VRI is asking for is appropriate...

George

 

[skimble]

We do not see this as an appropriate request. The title is already in my son’s name. We submitted a title change from trust to trustees the from trustees to my son.

The resort needs the fees more than VRI needs this information. They can either recognize the recorded legal county transfer of ownership, or deal with another delinquent account. If they don’t recognize the new (family) owner, there will be no maintenance fees to pay.
The entire trust will be settled and closed before any delinquencies are recognized by VRI.
We will let it slip into a tax foreclosure if they proceed to insist on all this paperwork.

 

[dioxide45]

We do not see this as an appropriate request. The title is already in my son’s name. We submitted a title change from trust to trustees the from trustees to my son.

The resort needs the fees more than VRI needs this information. They can either recognize the recorded legal county transfer of ownership, or deal with another delinquent account. If they don’t recognize the new (family) owner, there will be no maintenance fees to pay.
The entire trust will be settled and closed before any delinquencies are recognized by VRI.
We will let it slip into a tax foreclosure if they proceed to insist on all this paperwork.

Was VRI ever notified of the transfers in and out of the trust?

 

[dioxide45]

When you transfer traditional real estate with a loan, the mortgage company usually wants all of the same information.

 

[massachu]

There can be a clean chain of title without title insurance. Even insured title doesn't guaranty clean title. It just means the insurance company will step in and clean it up if there was something they missed. To validate clear title, a title search is needed. But just because there isn't a title search doesn't mean the chain of title isn't clean.

What Is a Clear Title?
A clear title is a title without any type of lien or levy from creditors or other parties that would pose a question as to legal ownership. For example, an owner of a home with a clear title is the sole undisputed owner, and no other party can make any kind of legal claim to its ownership. A clear title is also called a “clean title,” a “just title,” and a “free and clear title.”

A clear title is necessary for any real estate transaction because it firmly establishes who is the property owner. Title companies must do a title search to check for claims or liens of any kind against a title before it can be deemed clear. Erroneous surveys and unresolved building code violations are two examples of blemishes that can make a title “dirty.”

On the topic of clouded timeshare titles, suppose a successor developer buys unsold developer inventory ($2K for blue weeks) and intentionally titles it to a Viking Ship LLC. (The blue-week inventory is 20 percent of a timeshare with 2000 intervals.)
The goal is/was to shield the inventory from maintenance fees ($1K annually) with the complicity of the trustee of the HOA. The HOA is compelled to maintain that inventory. A decade passes and the HOA votes to dissolve and partition the property. The property has value of $10,000 per interval as part of the whole. How should a court partition the beneficial interest of the HOA non-profit association? Of particular relevance is the chain of title of that set of inventory intervals that passed ostensibly to a Viking Ship LLC. Would a title insurance review approve the creation of a single clear title of the HOA holding? Should the HOA seek redress? Who has constructive ownership of the Viking Ship inventory? How does that work if the trustee is an employee of the developer?

 

[dioxide45]

I am not a lawyer and this is probably a question best asked of a real estate lawyer in the state the property is located. Here is my free advice and it is worth what you are paying for it. In most cases of viking ship, the LLC may be defunct. Either because certain documentation requirements were not filed with the state or it was illegally dissolved (probably can't dissolve an LLC that owns real estate). The HOA probably has to go through quiet title and foreclosure processes on those weeks to bring them back into HOA possession. Once the weeks are owned by the HOA, there is no distribution of monies to the other owners when the timeshare is collapsed and the property is sold. In reality all the other owners in the HOA own a small percentage of each week. Any funds remaining from dissolving the timeshare would be distributed to remaining owners.