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The Anti-Timeshare Industry

JLB

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Yesterday I hitched up the horses and made my weekly trip into town, to stock up on vittles, sundries and dry goods, and stop by the post and telegraph office. Today I am sorting the communications from afar.

Again, as almost every week, I have a couple appeals to help us get rid of our timeshare weeks, the same as many of the phone calls on our secret line.

Another random thought . . . it seems that the misrepresentations, excesses and abuses of the timeshare industry has spawned another industry, the Let Us Help You Get Rid of Your Timeshare While We Stick Our Hand Into Your Pocket Ourselves Anti-Timeshare industry.

The appeal is not all that different than Bill Roger's when he started this site; pretty much have you discovered that timesharing is not what you were told it would be?

Gosh, I hate to appear to be negative, or to ruffle the feathers of some here in Timeshare La La Land :D , but if there wasn't all the slime and sleaze and deceit in the Timeshare industry, folks victimized by it would not have to be re-victimized by the Anti-Timeshare industry.

Just another rhetorical random thought compliments of yours truly, inviting discussion. :cool:
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Snookered In, Then Snookered Out. So It Goes.

Could it be that some small part of the satisfaction we derive from resale-timeshare vacationing is not just that we can secure luxury vacation accommodations for Motel 6 & Super 8 rates, but also that we've been able to do so without falling victim to the high-presssure, arm-twisting snake-oil sales methods that typify the timeshare biz?

I doubt that the savvy resale timeshare buyers ever fall victim to the Timeshare Relief types.

There can be little doubt that the main clientele for those outfits are the very same folks that got high-pressured into buying full-freight timeshares for big bux in the 1st place -- hustled into timesharing & then hustled out again.

Never give suckers semi-even breaks, eh?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

timeos2

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Is this April Fools come on the 4th?

Could it be that some small part of the satisfaction we derive from resale-timeshare vacationing is not just that we can secure luxury vacation accommodations for Motel 6 & Super 8 rates, but also that we've been able to do so without falling victim to the high-presssure, arm-twisting snake-oil sales methods that typify the timeshare biz?

I doubt that the savvy resale timeshare buyers ever fall victim to the Timeshare Relief types.

There can be little doubt that the main clientele for those outfits are the very same folks that got high-pressured into buying full-freight timeshares for big bux in the 1st place -- hustled into timesharing & then hustled out again.

Never give suckers semi-even breaks, eh?
-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Oh no. You mean I didn't get a good value for my $3500 for Timeshare Relief to "accept" my "worthless" Wastegate timeshare? I mean, come on, they knew all about it! Rising fees, uncaring management, no owner rights, never ending sales pressure, resorts falling into disrepair - they mentioned everything that Wastegate so perfectly represents! Then they told me that because of all that, and much worse, it not only couldn't be sold but they would need 3 years of maintenance fees ($3500 by their careful estimate) just so they might have a chance of possibly renting it or convincing someone to take it for free. They don't sell you know :ignore:

And they gave me a $25 gas card. It all seemed so good. Guess I'll have to go back out, huh? Fortunately I didn't sign the papers yet as I'm on the web in the lobby. Thank you so much - it was SO tempting. Guess it was just too good to be true. I'm going to go call a few of those nice companies that aren't so negative about this. They all say they can get $20,000 or more for my week at the Wastegate and all I need to do is pay them $500 or so to list forever (although at that low price the listing won't last long - they are sure)!

So its a little late for April fools but there are fools born every day I guess. If not how can Wyndham sell points worth $.01 for $.15 - Wastegate still sells to new buyers - some still think ROFR works for them - people pay hundreds to list their week for sale and, of course, some PAY $3500 to "get rid of" a timeshare. The hucksters aren't going to run out of marks anytime soon.
 

JLB

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The Anti-Timeshare industry has progressed from taking your $500 and promising to sell your TS, but never selling it, to taking your $3500 and then selling it on eBay for $1, which you could have done (or not) for close to free.

Such a deal.

That industry exists only because the TS industry refuses to acknowledge resales, refuses to help those whose money funds the TS industry.

The resale sharks exist, feeding on the bleeding, solely because the TS industry turned on its owners.

And we get indignant, our feathers ruffled, when the public spurns timeshare, like we are all fools. ;)

Ooops, there I go being negative again. :cool:
 
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Transit

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Every time I stay in a hotel it just reminds me of all good that over rides the bad concerning timeshares.I just returned from a 5 night stay in a really great resort but after a few days I wished I had at least a 1 bedroom. TS spoils you. It's so hard going back to the box.
 

JLB

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Or, in proper weaselese, a box in a box. :cool:

&

Outside of Timeshare La La Land, it's amazing how many say just the opposite, how they prefer the perks hotels offer that TS's don't.

Ooops, there's that negativity again. Maybe I'll work it all out shortly. :D

It's so hard going back to the box.
 
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mikenk

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I had avoided timeshares like a plague for years because of the reputation of the unscrupulous selling practices. However, I recently bought one on resale at about 20% of current 'new' sales price (To be honest, I still probably paid a little too much, but it was a simple buy)

When you realize that timesharing is just prepaid vacations, then it is a pretty straight forward analysis to compare the real vacation cost against the value of your initial purchase and the maintenance fees. Realistically, timesharing is a great way to get great vacations for you and your family at a very reasonable cost. Unfortunately, there are more ways to lose at the timeshare game than there is to win, although winning is quite easy.

- You lose if you bought thinking it was an investment, Shame on those selling and shame on you for believing.

- You lose (big time) if the MF is higher than what you can rent it for on the open market. It would seem that would be a real danger in certain areas (e.g. Orlando, Vegas) where the main attractions would want to keep low housing and airfare costs. Then there are those who will let you pay some more to leave the game - and you lose again.

- You win if your yearly vacation fun justifies (to you) the time value cost of your initial investment plus the maintenance fee. Thats easy to justify financially if you would have to pay double or more for the same type lodging.

- However, you lose again if you don't take the vacation; you still have the costs, but not the fun.

While there are more ways to lose than win and you are in a game filled with scam artists, as long as you understand the rules, you can have a lot of fun through vacationing and confusing the scamers.
 
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djs

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I remember seeing a Looney Tunes clip where Elmer Fudd (I believe) checks into a hotel room and when he trys to sleep there's a mouse in his room. He calls the front desk and they tell him for some sum of money they'll get rid of the mouse; they send up a cat. Of course now the cat becomes a problem and again for some sum of money they'll get rid of the cat and send up a dog. This goes on and on until they send up an elephant (not sure what the elephant was supposed to get rid of). Once again he calls because now he has this elephant in his room, and what do they send up to get rid of it? The mouse.

Not a whole lot of difference in the cycle of timeshares for some people.
 

Lawlar

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Funny But True

I remember seeing a Looney Tunes clip where Elmer Fudd (I believe) checks into a hotel room and when he trys to sleep there's a mouse in his room. He calls the front desk and they tell him for some sum of money they'll get rid of the mouse; they send up a cat. Of course now the cat becomes a problem and again for some sum of money they'll get rid of the cat and send up a dog. This goes on and on until they send up an elephant (not sure what the elephant was supposed to get rid of). Once again he calls because now he has this elephant in his room, and what do they send up to get rid of it? The mouse.

Not a whole lot of difference in the cycle of timeshares for some people.
Now that is funny. Well worth the visit to TUG.

Unfortunately, the powers that be want to get us coming and going. (I resisted the urge to use a more descriptive but less polite expression).

I'm not sure what is worse, the people who want to rip me off by offering to sell my TS or Marriott's prices and maintenance fees. Either way I'm suffering.
 

talkamotta

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As adults....(thats what we are)

We should know what we are buying. If we wanted to buy a car (wouldnt we do some research- Consumer Reports,etc.), a house (know something about market value and construction). Some people have paid as much for a timeshare as they did thier first house and Im sure at least one of your cars. So why dont we go to the professionals for a timeshare purchase.

No experts....Except maybe here. So when people get mad at timeshares its the same as the many people who are blaming everyone else when they loose thier house because of an interest only loan. They thought the loan officer or the real estate agent was the professional, just like many of us thought about the weasle salesperson. Alot of them had thier own agenda, its too bad they dont think of repeat sales. When I was a real estate agent, I had a lot of referals and return homeowners.. I dont think I will be going back to Westgate and asking if I can buy another timeshare from the King anytime soon.

Timeshare la la land... Everyone has thier opinions of how to vacations. I love timeshares. The bad name comes from the weasles that sold them an unrealistic dream and not a product. They should sell the product and teach them how to turn it into a dream or at least a wonderful vacation.
 

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I accompanied my aunt to her doctor's office about a year ago. She mentioned to him that I own a "few" timeshares (her words, not mine--we own 15+). He began discussing it with me and I learned that he owns a two bedroom lock off unit at a Marriott in Orlando--Gold season--bought from the developer in 2005 for $31,000. . He said he was considering buying another week the same way.

I asked if he knew that prices were much lower through the resale market and he said he was aware of it but he wouldn't get all the points and perks if he goes that route. I advised him to do some research, and add up the figures, before buying anything more at full freight. I recommended that he visit TUG, Redweek, etc... and told him to also check Ebay. I wrote out info about how to find each web site.

Fast forward to this month. I received a phone call from the doctor. He wanted some advice about selling his Marriott. He went on to say that in February he went on vacation to Puerto Vallarta and wound up paying another $31,000. to purchase a one bedroom unit at "Villa del Palmas Flamingo". After much questioning it seems that he has actually bought a RTU contract at Universal Vacation Club at Villa del Mar. But I'm not sure and neither is he. I suggested he make copies of the pertinent documents and let me review them.

Doctor said he and his wife spent 8 hours at the presentation. He gave a long description of all the usual lies one hears at the typical presentation, especially in Mexico. A lot of what was told to him then does not appear in writing in the documents he received. The first price quoted was $39,000. and they wouldn't budge on it for 2 hours. The saleman also "went into a back room," allegedly made some phone calls, and returned with some "great news." His "reputable sources" determined that the doctor could sell their Marriott for $39,000..After much game-playing the price of the Mexican timeshare inched down to $31,000.. And that point he bought it, figuring he could sell the Marriott for $39,000., pay for the Mexican timeshare, and even have some money left over to pay off credit card bills.

When they returned from vacation, his daughter (from a previous marriage) did research on the Internet and found many articles and complaints about Mexico timeshare scams. Doctor is now calling me hoping I will tell him that he didn't get "fleeced." He also wanted to know the best way to go about selling his Marriott timeshare. He says his wife contacted Marriott and they want a 40% commission to do it. I asked what price they proposed to sell it for. He wasn't sure but he thinks it's around $20,000.. (I'm finding what appear to be comparable units on Redweek for about $10,000). He now realizes that the $39,000. price quoted by the Mexico ts salesman was bogus. DUH!

It's very discouraging to see a mature, educated, intelligent man get into a situation like this AFTER I had told him about the resale market AND given him written URLs to check out TUG, Holiday Group, Redweek, Timesharing Today Magazine, etc.... I told him a year ago that the $31,000. Marriott he already owned could have been purhased for 25-50% of that price. He was very defensive about the "extra value" of the "free" points that had come with his developer purchase. Okay, he's not the only one who takes that stance. But to then go to Mexico and believe a sleazy salesman who tells him it's worth $39,000. makes no sense. And to pay $31,000. to buy a "membership" (or whatever you call it) in a property that is available resale on Redweek for under $10,000. is lunacy.

Most of us feel sorry for the people who find their way to TUG after they have bought from a developer. But there are apparently tons more people who already know about the resale market and still succumb to the trickery of slick sales people.

I guess the developers will continue to operate in this dispicable way because there are enough fools out there to make it well worth their while.
 

jdb0822

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Ironically I was watching SpongeBob with the kids this morning, and spongebob receives an invitation to "Karate Island" and that he "won a prize". He goes and apparently is captured by the guy running the place.

Sandy the squirrell fights her way thru the building to find spongebob handcuffed to a chair. The owner states spongebob can't leave until he signs a contract. Spongebob asks "what contract", and the guy responds "a contract to purchase this timeshare" Karate Island is a timeshare resort. The guy pulls down a chart and tells spongebob to invest in the timeshare and shows a graph on how his "equity" will increase over time. Spongebob and Sandy decline to purchase and literally have to fight their way out of the resort.

Very funny and at the same time I am glad that Spongebob is teaching my kids to never buy from the developer !!!
 

Lawlar

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Here Is To The Foolishness In All Of Us

It's very discouraging to see a mature, educated, intelligent man get into a situation like this AFTER I had told him about the resale market AND given him written URLs to check out TUG, Holiday Group, Redweek, Timesharing Today Magazine, etc.... I told him a year ago that the $31,000. Marriott he already owned could have been purhased for 25-50% of that price. He was very defensive about the "extra value" of the "free" points that had come with his developer purchase. Okay, he's not the only one who takes that stance. But to then go to Mexico and believe a sleazy salesman who tells him it's worth $39,000. makes no sense. And to pay $31,000. to buy a "membership" (or whatever you call it) in a property that is available resale on Redweek for under $10,000. is lunacy.

Most of us feel sorry for the people who find their way to TUG after they have bought from a developer. But there are apparently tons more people who already know about the resale market and still succumb to the trickery of slick sales people.

I guess the developers will continue to operate in this dispicable way because there are enough fools out there to make it well worth their while.
We are all foolish at times. That is what makes us human. Maybe we should celebrate the times when we are foolish.

Hey, I’m one of those professionals who should be too smart to have been so foolish as to have bought a TS from one of those weasel Marriott salespersons. I mean as an attorney “professional” I have counseled a number of clients over the years not to buy timeshares. I have filed bankruptcies for Numerous clients who needed to discharge their TS loans. And for that matter, I have represented many salespersons who had absolutely no morals and who could sell anything to anyone. [I know their tricks.]

So last year, after a blond Marriott rep gave me her sales pitch, and I recognized that I was in an excited irrational state (hey, I always wanted to own something on my favorite beach in Maui and to leave something on that Island to my grandkid), I knew that I needed help. So I called one of the smartest lawyers I know. I asked him what he thought about my spending over $50,000 for a TS. I was hoping he would bring me back to earth and tell me to come to my senses. I mean someone needed to slap me across the face and say “snap out of it.” Unfortunately, he told me that he owned four TSs and his two partners owned TSs as well. He loves them (he also has so much money that he probably has no idea how much those TSs cost him).

Then when I got home and came to my senses I filled out the rescission notice and was ready to send it to Marriott by fax/UPS/and mail (return receipt requested). I mean I was going to destroy that contract and pray that my friends never found out that I had gone temporarily insane. But when I took my wife out to lunch to get her consent to my canceling the deal she simply said don’t worry we can afford it. That was a very expensive lunch, I should have just sent out the notice without her knowledge.

Anyway, bottom line, we are all foolish at times.

I just saw the new Rolling Stones Concert movie (its great if you love the band). Look at Keith Richards. Now there is a man whose face shows that he has been foolish all his life – I mean he looks like he has done everything and that he doesn’t have any regrets.

So here’s to the foolishness in all of us. Enjoy it when it happens – and hope it doesn’t cause you too much pain.
 
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rickandcindy23

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Ironically I was watching SpongeBob with the kids this morning, and spongebob receives an invitation to "Karate Island" and that he "won a prize". He goes and apparently is captured by the guy running the place.

Sandy the squirrell fights her way thru the building to find spongebob handcuffed to a chair. The owner states spongebob can't leave until he signs a contract. Spongebob asks "what contract", and the guy responds "a contract to purchase this timeshare" Karate Island is a timeshare resort. The guy pulls down a chart and tells spongebob to invest in the timeshare and shows a graph on how his "equity" will increase over time. Spongebob and Sandy decline to purchase and literally have to fight their way out of the resort.

Very funny and at the same time I am glad that Spongebob is teaching my kids to never buy from the developer !!!
This one deserves a thread of its own. This is the funniest thing I have ever read here. I hope Brian or Dave (someone who can do it) will move this to its own thread because it is :hysterical: laugh-out-loud funny.

I would love to see this cartoon and would show it to everyone who comes to my house. I would also like to show it to people in my real estate office. Very funny. :rofl:
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
U-Tube.

This one deserves a thread of its own. This is the funniest thing I have ever read here. I hope Brian or Dave (someone who can do it) will move this to its own thread because it is laugh-out-loud funny.

I would love to see this cartoon and would show it to everyone who comes to my house. I would also like to show it to people in my real estate office. Very funny.
Maybe some tech-savvy TUG-BBS member can catch it on digital video & upload it to U-Tube & include a link to the U-Tube item in a TUB-BBS entry.

Wouldn't that be something ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

TUGBrian

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funny you mention that...one of the things on my todo list after we get the ad program up and running are tugvideos for instructions and such.
 

Jim McLaren

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Maybe some tech-savvy TUG-BBS member can catch it on digital video & upload it to U-Tube & include a link to the U-Tube item in a TUB-BBS entry.
Karate Island is in season 4 which has been released on DVD. I would think that the powers that be would frown on making the video available for download. And u-tube has a 10 minute limit on videos. It can be downloaded but how do you share it with the less tech-savvy members? I don't think there's a way.
 
S

Steamboat Bill

This one deserves a thread of its own. This is the funniest thing I have ever read here. I hope Brian or Dave (someone who can do it) will move this to its own thread because it is :hysterical: laugh-out-loud funny.

I would love to see this cartoon and would show it to everyone who comes to my house. I would also like to show it to people in my real estate office. Very funny. :rofl:
ok here you go...I found it on YouTube

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=501818#post501818
 

bilfbr245

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I accompanied my aunt to her doctor's office about a year ago. She mentioned to him that I own a "few" timeshares (her words, not mine--we own 15+). He began discussing it with me and I learned that he owns a two bedroom lock off unit at a Marriott in Orlando--Gold season--bought from the developer in 2005 for $31,000. . He said he was considering buying another week the same way.

I asked if he knew that prices were much lower through the resale market and he said he was aware of it but he wouldn't get all the points and perks if he goes that route. I advised him to do some research, and add up the figures, before buying anything more at full freight. I recommended that he visit TUG, Redweek, etc... and told him to also check Ebay. I wrote out info about how to find each web site.

Fast forward to this month. I received a phone call from the doctor. He wanted some advice about selling his Marriott. He went on to say that in February he went on vacation to Puerto Vallarta and wound up paying another $31,000. to purchase a one bedroom unit at "Villa del Palmas Flamingo". After much questioning it seems that he has actually bought a RTU contract at Universal Vacation Club at Villa del Mar. But I'm not sure and neither is he. I suggested he make copies of the pertinent documents and let me review them.

Doctor said he and his wife spent 8 hours at the presentation. He gave a long description of all the usual lies one hears at the typical presentation, especially in Mexico. A lot of what was told to him then does not appear in writing in the documents he received. The first price quoted was $39,000. and they wouldn't budge on it for 2 hours. The saleman also "went into a back room," allegedly made some phone calls, and returned with some "great news." His "reputable sources" determined that the doctor could sell their Marriott for $39,000..After much game-playing the price of the Mexican timeshare inched down to $31,000.. And that point he bought it, figuring he could sell the Marriott for $39,000., pay for the Mexican timeshare, and even have some money left over to pay off credit card bills.

When they returned from vacation, his daughter (from a previous marriage) did research on the Internet and found many articles and complaints about Mexico timeshare scams. Doctor is now calling me hoping I will tell him that he didn't get "fleeced." He also wanted to know the best way to go about selling his Marriott timeshare. He says his wife contacted Marriott and they want a 40% commission to do it. I asked what price they proposed to sell it for. He wasn't sure but he thinks it's around $20,000.. (I'm finding what appear to be comparable units on Redweek for about $10,000). He now realizes that the $39,000. price quoted by the Mexico ts salesman was bogus. DUH!

It's very discouraging to see a mature, educated, intelligent man get into a situation like this AFTER I had told him about the resale market AND given him written URLs to check out TUG, Holiday Group, Redweek, Timesharing Today Magazine, etc.... I told him a year ago that the $31,000. Marriott he already owned could have been purhased for 25-50% of that price. He was very defensive about the "extra value" of the "free" points that had come with his developer purchase. Okay, he's not the only one who takes that stance. But to then go to Mexico and believe a sleazy salesman who tells him it's worth $39,000. makes no sense. And to pay $31,000. to buy a "membership" (or whatever you call it) in a property that is available resale on Redweek for under $10,000. is lunacy.

Most of us feel sorry for the people who find their way to TUG after they have bought from a developer. But there are apparently tons more people who already know about the resale market and still succumb to the trickery of slick sales people.

I guess the developers will continue to operate in this dispicable way because there are enough fools out there to make it well worth their while.
Very interesting post, and given that this buyer is doctor, I am wondering if we are also seeing a revealing "behind the scenes" example of the kind of thinking that has resulted in astromical medical costs in this country. Is this too negative, JLB? (Plus, He spent 8 hours in a sales presentation??)
 

talkamotta

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Most of us feel sorry for the people who find their way to TUG after they have bought from a developer. But there are apparently tons more people who already know about the resale market and still succumb to the trickery of slick sales people.

I guess the developers will continue to operate in this dispicable way because there are enough fools out there to make it well worth their while.
A person I know has 5 timeshares (4 Marriots, 1 Cliff Lodge) all bought from the developer. Over $160K invested in initial purchase. He loves those Marriot points. :shrug: Couldnt talk him into buy his last purchase on ebay; could have saved him $20K. He loves being able to go into the front desk and say "Im a multi week Marriot owner". Gets his valet parking free.

If he's happy and he knows the difference, then who am I to say anything.
 

TheFlush

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There is an episode of King of the Hill where Hank's dad buys a timeshare and Hank has to get him out of it. That one is worth watching.
 

timeos2

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The world views timeshares as a bad joke

There is an episode of King of the Hill where Hank's dad buys a timeshare and Hank has to get him out of it. That one is worth watching.
When you think about it this is a sad commentary on the state of timeshare. Obviously most of us here think timesharing is a good value or we wouldn't own it. But think about the average person/family and the impression they probably have of timeshare.

- If they've experienced the hard sell they are probably left with a negative vibe. The 90 minutes turned into hours and they had to pry the "gift" from the exit desk. Many swear they'll never deal with it again. While it actually has nothing to do with timeshares themselves the shark marketing sullies the whole concept for many.

- They purchased from the slick Weasels. This may be the most negative group of all. They bought in to the dream, paid BIG dollars for a "prepaid" vacation only to find that bill in the mail each year and the need to pay off the purchase price. It gets worse if they realize they can't afford it or don't know how/won't take the time to use it. See selling below.

- They purchased, they feel happy but the first time they go to exchange they discover its not the Hilton Reservation desk its a place and hope system. Many will NEVER see the dream vacation they thought would be so easy to get because the Weasel said so. Disillusioned.

- They decide to sell. Now the reality REALLY sets in. They are vulnerable to the upfront fee sales scams, the "developer sells for $10,000 more" valuation dreams, possibly their first discovery that what they paid $25,000+ for is worth $5,000 or less on the free market IF it can be sold at all and of course the predatory Post Card Companies spread the anti-timeshare word so effectively that they can connive $3500 or more out of an owner to take the timeshare!

While it is funny to see Sponge Bob, Saturday Night Live, Seinfeld and others make jokes about timeshares we need to realize that is the prevailing view of our hobby/passion. The world that actually appreciates the timeshare experience and knows how to get good value from it is minuscule compared to those that feel it is a total rip off from top to bottom. That majority drives the bus that feed the sales Weasels, the sales scams and the PCC ripoffs. We're the tiny minority in this play folks. Timeshare has become the used car, shyster lawyer cesspool of bottom of the barrel services to be avoided. Hardly the image any industry wants to have.
 

Holly

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Even my husband thinks so...

I don't tell very many people about my hobby. Although my husband likes the trips, he thinks that the time I spend on TUG, etc. is ridiculous.
 

AwayWeGo

TUG Review Crew: Expert
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[triennial - points]
Time For A Whole New Approach.

Timeshare has become the used car, shyster lawyer cesspool of bottom of the barrel services to be avoided. Hardly the image any industry wants to have.
Time now for that brave new biz model, eh?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 
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