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Thank You TUG...Time to Rescind!!

arrosen

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So, I am sitting here by the pool at Mission Hills after just buying an EOY 67,100 Star Options for $14,400 (with $240 maint per year) in Cancun.

I will be rescinding tomorrow, and purchasing something like this on eBay for thousands less.

I really do trust everyone here on TUG, but how do I know "for sure" that Kierland is a mandatory resort and that I will get staroptions? Is it written somewhere in Starwood policy or on their website? I'd hate to buy a resale and have them say that the "mandatory" status does not apply to me!!!
 

DeniseM

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So, I am sitting here by the pool at Mission Hills after just buying an EOY 67,100 Star Options for $14,400 (with $240 maint per year) in Cancun.

I will be rescinding tomorrow, and purchasing something like this on eBay for thousands less.

I really do trust everyone here on TUG, but how do I know "for sure" that Kierland is a mandatory resort and that I will get staroptions? Is it written somewhere in Starwood policy or on their website? I'd hate to buy a resale and have them say that the "mandatory" status does not apply to me!!!

Good for you!

Yes, the info. will be on your deed (the number of Staroptions will be listed) - and ALL units at WKV are mandatory - it applies to everyone, resale and developer purchases - always.

However, Starwood hates to admit it and lose a sale, and we have had reports over and over again of sales people denying this, to make a sale. So even if you ask, you may not get a straight answer from your sales person.

To check info. like that before you buy, see the Starwood FAQ at the top of the board.

Be sure you read the Rescission FAQ at the top of the board, too.

Also - don't be in a hurry to buy, take your time and do your homework first.
 
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LisaRex

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I really do trust everyone here on TUG, but how do I know "for sure" that Kierland is a mandatory resort and that I will get staroptions? Is it written somewhere in Starwood policy or on their website? I'd hate to buy a resale and have them say that the "mandatory" status does not apply to me!!!

It's not on their website nor is it a policy. You probably won't ever read the language "mandatory" and "voluntary" on their websites anyway as I believe those are Tug-created terms. Rather the language that differentiates between a mandatory and voluntary resort is written in the deeds. The ones that we call "mandatory" have it written in the deeds that SVN membership comes with ownership You cannot separate the interest in SVN from the property, even if you sell it to a third party. I think the voluntary resorts lack that language.

In any event, many owners have bought "mandatory" resorts on the resale market, including myself, and can personally vouch for the fact that you will be included in SVN if you buy at Westin Kierland.
 

DeniseM

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Good point, Lisa - I am going to go back and clarify that in my post.
 

LisaRex

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Oh, and I'd strongly urge you to look for a platinum 2 bdrm at Westin Kierland if you can swing it financially. They come with 148,100 StarOptions, which gives you a lot of flexibility. For instance, you can get any 2 bdrm in the network (theoretically, anyway) with 148,100 StarOptions. Currently you have combine StarOptions from multiple resale purchases at mandatory resorts to get to other locations, but Starwood can change that policy at their whim.

I say theoretically because trading is subject to availability. So a 2 bdrm at Westin St. John in the summer is theoretically possible, but practically impossible.
 

arrosen

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HA!!!

Very "conveniently," the form to cancel wasn't in my packet!!!! They gave it to me when I went to ask for it, but shouldn't it have been in my packet?
 

DavidnRobin

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I wouldn't trust me on some sketchy bbs...(with crazy TS tuggers) but, I own 2 weeks at WKV (Plat, 81K SOs) and indeed they are within SVN

and WKV has no ROFR... i'll let you figure out what that is - lol

RRR
you are at the second R - good for you
 

Lawlar

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No Special Form Is Needed

HA!!!

Very "conveniently," the form to cancel wasn't in my packet!!!! They gave it to me when I went to ask for it, but shouldn't it have been in my packet?

As long as you communicate in writing that you are rescinding you do not need to use a special form.

I would recommend that you send it by several different methods (e.g. registered letter, RRR; email, & fax) so that you have ample evidence that Starwood received your notice.

Starwood cannot claim you failed to rescind because you didn't use some magic formula. Actual notice is all that is required.
 

Ken555

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I like the idea of you going to the business center at WMH and printing and signing the rescind letter there... then walk it over personally... :)
 

DeniseM

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Except - they may not give him a receipt in person. Just to be sure, I would also send a registered copy for documentation, or whatever method is specified in the rescission instructions. I'd be inclined to do that anyway - doing it in person is just asking for more grief from the sales staff.

Lawler, here on TUG it has been stated over and over that the rescission must be submitted using the mailing method stated in the rescission instructions. Even if that's not legally binding, I'd be inclined to follow the instructions to the letter, just to eliminate any problems that might arise later.
 

CanadianLawyer

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SVO and Mandatory Resorts

I was at a presentation at SVV yesterday and the manager admitted that the Bella section was mandatory (I just bought a resale week there on eBay) but tried to tell me that the week's status in SVO could change at any time "because Starwood is always trying to prevent people like you from doing that". I didn't know about the wording of the deed until reading this thread tonight or I would have laughed! As it was I just nodded and continued to say "no thanks". :rolleyes:
 

Lawlar

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Notice

Lawler, here on TUG it has been stated over and over that the rescission must be submitted using the mailing method stated in the rescission instructions. Even if that's not legally binding, I'd be inclined to follow the instructions to the letter, just to eliminate any problems that might arise later.

I agree with you Denise.

On the other hand, if someone doesn't have the right form that shouldn't limit the consumer's right to rescind.

In the first year of law school (Contracts) we had to read a lot of cases (too many cases) about notice. The reason that there is a specified method is to ensure that if the consumer uses that specified method the seller cannot claim that the notice wasn't received or that is wasn't timely. In other words, the risk of not receiving the notice is shifted to the seller if the consumer uses the specified method.

But if the consumer can show that notice was received by the seller, the seller can't claim the notice is ineffective because the specified method wasn't used.

It is best practice to follow the method the statute (or notice of right to rescind) provides for rescinding. But a consumer shouldn't feel that he or she has lost the right to rescind if the exact method isn't followed to the letter. No court is going to hold a timeshare purchaser to a contract where the consumer showed a reasonable effort to rescind in a timely manner.
 

seenett

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...tried to tell me that the week's status in SVO could change at any time "because Starwood is always trying to prevent people like you from doing that"...

I love how when you are a prospective buyer they tout that you can "use it, sell it, will it, or give it away", but when you are a prospective rescinder they tell you they are actively looking for ways to hinder resales.
 

SDKath

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So, I am sitting here by the pool at Mission Hills after just buying an EOY 67,100 Star Options for $14,400 (with $240 maint per year) in Cancun.

I will be rescinding tomorrow, and purchasing something like this on eBay for thousands less.

I really do trust everyone here on TUG, but how do I know "for sure" that Kierland is a mandatory resort and that I will get staroptions? Is it written somewhere in Starwood policy or on their website? I'd hate to buy a resale and have them say that the "mandatory" status does not apply to me!!!


Good for you! 67,100 SOs is a very low (and odd) number of SOs and is almost worthless in the SVN system unless you like to stay in little studios.

When you do buy, try finding at least 81,000 SOs, which will get you in a 1BR during platinum times or a 2BR LO during gold time! Katherine
 

DeniseM

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I love how when you are a prospective buyer they tout that you can "use it, sell it, will it, or give it away", but when you are a prospective rescinder they tell you they are actively looking for ways to hinder resales.

Hi Chris! Nice to "see" you here!

For those of you who haven't met Chris, he wrote the Starwood article on the TUG advice page and is an all-around knowledgeable guy - the Starwood people call him the "TUG Starwood Guru!" (I didn't make that up, either!) :D
 

seenett

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Hi Denise -

I still check in here every few days, but as I said before I don't post much anymore...WAY more TUGgers with more Starwood knowledge now who I can learn from.

To prove I still read here, I got a 40% off W mattress - it was delivered today. Still waiting on the pillows though! Thanks to SDKath!
 

Ken555

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Except - they may not give him a receipt in person.

Well, it's up to the OP to insist on a receipt. You make me laugh, Denise! :)
 

DeniseM

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nodge

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I really do trust everyone here on TUG, but how do I know "for sure" that Kierland is a mandatory resort and that I will get staroptions? Is it written somewhere in Starwood policy or on their website? I'd hate to buy a resale and have them say that the "mandatory" status does not apply to me!!!

The seller/current owner of the WKV unit should call SVO and ask for a "Resale Information Sheet" for the villa they are selling (or better yet, authorize you to have one emailed or faxed directly to you from SVO).

That sheet includes a detailed description of the property they are selling, including the current owners’ name, the villa (season, first available occupancy year, annual vs. EOY, status of maintenance fee payments, contract number, unit number (for deeding purposes only), and week number (for deeding purposes only)). It will have boxes checked for whether there is a Right of First Refusal (No will be checked for WKV units), and the amount of any required transfer fee (No will be checked for WKV units).

That form also includes this section:

Box 1 - "(Voluntary Resorts) Starwood Vacation Network and Vistana Plus Disclosure Statement: Membership in the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) or Vistana Plus is a benefit unique to the seller's ownership. Under the SVN Rules and the Owner Membership Agreement, membership in SVN or Vistana Plus, the Starpoints associated with the Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), and access to the SPG Conversion Program cannot be transferred to the purchaser."

Box 2 – “(Club Resorts) Starwood Vacation Network Disclosure Statement: Membership in the Starwood Vacation Network (SVN) must transfer with ownership; however, the benefit of Gold Level Membership in the Starwood Preferred Guest Program (SPG), and access to the SPG Conversion Program are not transferable. Starpoints deposited in the seller’s account will remain there and cannot be transferred.”

Box 3 – “(Not Applicable) This resort does not participate in any type of club memberships at this time.”

Just make sure that “Box 2” (above) is checked for WKV (and it should be since ALL villas at WKV are “club resorts,”) and you will be good to go.


BTW, The legal name for the Westin Kierland Villas is the “Scottsdale Sonoran Villas,” (the timeshare only licenses use of the Westin name, which license can be pulled at any time by Starwood). To be legit, the “Resale Information Sheet” must be “signed” (electronic signatures are OK) by an “agent for Scottsdale Sonoran Villas Owners Assoc.”

To help with your due diligence, you should also enter the seller’s name into this database.

Look for anything unusual, such as an unpaid-off mortgage/loan, which the lawyers call a “deed of trust,” and any conveyances of that property from that owner to someone else (which will be through a document the lawyers call a “warranty deed” and/or a “special warranty deed”).

Good Luck!

-nodge
 
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James1975NY

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It's not on their website nor is it a policy. You probably won't ever read the language "mandatory" and "voluntary" on their websites anyway as I believe those are Tug-created terms. Rather the language that differentiates between a mandatory and voluntary resort is written in the deeds. The ones that we call "mandatory" have it written in the deeds that SVN membership comes with ownership You cannot separate the interest in SVN from the property, even if you sell it to a third party. I think the voluntary resorts lack that language.

In any event, many owners have bought "mandatory" resorts on the resale market, including myself, and can personally vouch for the fact that you will be included in SVN if you buy at Westin Kierland.

"Voluntary" and "Mandatory" are terms created by Starwood and the language should be in the condominium documents. If you purchased from the resort you either got a CD ROM or a small but lenghty book which is about 81/2'' by 6''.

You may even find this language in the SVN disclosure statements.
 

DavidnRobin

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They are not - I have condo docs from 4 SVO resorts - V and M are not specifically mentioned.
 

LisaRex

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I also have the WKORV-N CD rom (which was sent to me from the original owner). The word "mandatory" is not mentioned. They do, however, repeatedly mention membership in "the club." Here is the verbiage which I believe is relevant (bolding mine), keeping in mind that I am not a lawyer:

6.5 Nature of Membership

Each Owner automatically becomes a member of the Club. If a Vacation Ownership Interest is owned by more than one person, they will all be members of the Club. An Owner will continue to be a member of the Club so long as he or she remains an Owner. A person's membership in the Club cannot be separated from his or her Vacation Ownership Interest. Any attempt to do so will not be affective; it will be void. If a person is no longer an "Owner" then his or her membership in the Club will end automatically.
 
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