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Tesla Chargers near Sea Pines August 11-17, help!

pedro47

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To the OP, were you able to locate the charger for your auto on Sea Pines Island.?
 

jmmoultn

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Yes, but decided to fly for different reasons. But a good hearted TUG member offered to help! Will bring the Tesla next time and stay at GO!
 

OldGuy

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How about the Tesla that erupted in flames in Russia? It was on auto-pilot and slammed into a stopped vehicle.
 

jmmoultn

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Didn’t hear about it. But I assume a few thousand internal combustion engines have gone up in flames recently. Tesla seems a pretty safe ride (and I own ICE too)
 

JIMinNC

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How about the Tesla that erupted in flames in Russia? It was on auto-pilot and slammed into a stopped vehicle.
Didn’t hear about it. But I assume a few thousand internal combustion engines have gone up in flames recently. Tesla seems a pretty safe ride (and I own ICE too)
I think people are misusing the Tesla autopilots. They are meant to be driving aids, not a driverless car.

I'm a pilot, and we know that even in aircraft, you still have to monitor what an autopilot is doing. In the planes I fly, the autopilot can keep the wings levels and even navigate the airplane using electronic navigation aids (including GPS). In newer commercial jets, the autopilots can even land the plane automatically. In those planes, even if the autopilot is landing the plane, the crew is carefully monitoring and using their instruments to verify that the autopilot is flying the plane properly during critical, low-margin-of-error phases of flight like takeoff and landing.

I would equate using an "autopilot" in a car to using autopilot to land a plane. The safety margins are low almost all of the time in a car. In a car, you are almost always just feet away from other cars and even oncoming traffic, so even a small error can lead to disaster, just as it would during the landing phase in an airplane. When enroute at altitude in a plane, outside of a busy terminal area, a pilot doesn't have to monitor what the autopilot is doing quite as closely as during landing, because there are much higher safety margins and much less that can go wrong. But even then, you still have to be aware and understand your systems, as the autopilot problems with the 737-8Max have sadly shown.

Maybe Tesla made an error in calling their product "autopilot". Pilots' know you still have to watch over the autopilot in their plane, but many non-pilots think a pilot can take a nap when on autopilot. While some pilots have erred and done just that, most know that's not a safe way to operate (and some of those pilots that did are now former pilots).
 

OldGuy

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Overheard the other day at the golf course, when one of the young guys of a 20 golfer group showed up a little late in his new Tesla, with dealer tags still on it, "Yeah, I had to lay over for an hour in )&$%$&)&$$%( to get a charge."
 

jmmoultn

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Maybe he hadn't yet installed his home yet. I would guess I have saved a few hundred hours of my life the last couple of years not holding a smelly gas nozzle and breathing noxious fumes!
 

dioxide45

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Maybe he hadn't yet installed his home yet. I would guess I have saved a few hundred hours of my life the last couple of years not holding a smelly gas nozzle and breathing noxious fumes!
But a good portion of the electricity used to charge your car likely comes from burning coal...
 

Steve Fatula

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But a good portion of the electricity used to charge your car likely comes from burning coal...
None of mine comes from burning coal. That's a pretty big assumption! Depends where you live too.

Even if it was, there is a formula for this and you can compare all you want on the internet. It's not up for guessing, or imagining. EVs simply, in almost all cases and cities (yes, where you live matters since every area sources their power differently), emit less per mile that gasoline cars. Counting your coal emissions to generate the electricity. The argument that electricity comes from coal burning while true, is basically an argument that gasoline car drivers like to use to make themselves feel better (by putting down EV owners).

Mine produces zero since mine is charged via solar (and my house is powered by the same solar, as are all my electric tools, hot water, etc.). I suppose there is some > 0 carbon footprint to make the panels. But it's obviously very minimal and a one time cost.

Note I am not one to do solar for purely environment reasons, not at all! It's because I save money over the lifetime of the system, a lot of money. And break even time is not very many years. The systems are *way* cheaper than even 3 years ago. At least here.
 

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Glad to hear y'all are Green.

I've got solar, but kinda like the smell of gas.
 

Fasttr

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Glad to hear y'all are Green.

I've got solar, but kinda like the smell of gas.
Agreed. Gunna hafta pry my 3.8 liter naturally aspirated flat 6 internal combustion engine from my cold dead hands. The sound at 7K+ rpm is intoxicating.
 
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Steve Fatula

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Agreed. Gunna hafta pry my 3.8 liter naturally aspirated flat 6 internal combustion engine from my cold dead hands. The sound at 7K+ rpm is intoxicating.
Porsche 911?
 

Steve Fatula

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Yessir. You must be a car guy.
Gee, what a guess. :)

Yes, you'll blow the doors off my electric Volt. Though, the Volt is far from bad, just nowhere near the Porsche. But not too many things are. The Ford GT supercar that my neighbor sold (car salesman) earlier this year should beat it. But it ought to for $600,000. 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, can't imagine.
 
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kds4

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Glad to hear y'all are Green.

I've got solar, but kinda like the smell of gas.
Can just go EV and drive it to a Taco Bell. Everyone wins, except those close-by. :eek:
 

dioxide45

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None of mine comes from burning coal. That's a pretty big assumption! Depends where you live too.

Even if it was, there is a formula for this and you can compare all you want on the internet. It's not up for guessing, or imagining. EVs simply, in almost all cases and cities (yes, where you live matters since every area sources their power differently), emit less per mile that gasoline cars. Counting your coal emissions to generate the electricity. The argument that electricity comes from coal burning while true, is basically an argument that gasoline car drivers like to use to make themselves feel better (by putting down EV owners).

Mine produces zero since mine is charged via solar (and my house is powered by the same solar, as are all my electric tools, hot water, etc.). I suppose there is some > 0 carbon footprint to make the panels. But it's obviously very minimal and a one time cost.

Note I am not one to do solar for purely environment reasons, not at all! It's because I save money over the lifetime of the system, a lot of money. And break even time is not very many years. The systems are *way* cheaper than even 3 years ago. At least here.
To be fair, I was replying to someone who's profile indicated they lived in Boston. It may be possible that some of their energy comes from renewables or solar, but certainly not year round. I perhaps should have stated that their car is powered by natural gas since it seems that much of the energy produced in Massachusetts comes from natural gas.

While it is true that EV may emit less carbon per mile, it may not be quite as low as one thinks. It should also be pointed out that to truly compare gas vs EV that you need to look at the lifespan of the vehicle, from the extraction of raw materials, manufacturing, driving and finally the disposal. Mining lithium to make the batteries for an EV is carbon intensive using equipment powered by diesel fuel. Much of an EVs carbon footprint has been made even before it rolls off the assembly line.

While owning an EV somewhere that solar energy is plentiful and can be gathered most days of the year may make sense. In a lot of locations in the US, electric cars are still charged with energy produced from fossil fuels. If the proponents of EVs have it there way, everyone would have an EV and we would require exponential amounts of additional electricity to be produced. Solar energy and other renewables simply wouldn't be able to keep up.

While it may be cheap to install solar today, how much of that is because of subsidies that feed the industry along the way, from manufacturing of the product to home owners getting subsidies, grants, tax credits and loans to install them? I would suspect if it weren't for the subsidies, would there really be a break even point that is realistic? To truly look at the cost of EV vs gas, you can't just look at how much you may save each year. There is a larger hidden cost we don't see unless you dig deeper.
 
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JIMinNC

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While it may be cheap to install solar today, how much of that is because of subsidies that feed the industry along the way, from manufacturing of the product to home owners getting subsidies, grants, tax credits and loans to install them? I would suspect if it weren't for the subsidies, would there really be a break even point that is realistic? To truly look at the cost of EV vs gas, you can't just look at how much you may save each year. There is a larger hidden cost we don't see unless you dig deeper.
Much the same could be said about many other new technologies in their infancy:
  • Civilian aviation was directly subsidized by the government in the early 20th century, using the contracting out of mail routes to spur development of civilian aviation, as well as using the development programs for the Army and Navy to spur civil aircraft production.
  • Many of the other technologies we use today were initially developed for NASA or the Dept of Defense with government funding (a form of subsidy), and later commercialized
  • In the mid-1980s, I was involved in early pilots/experiments in online banking. Our biggest hurdle was the lack of network infrastructure and the lack of penetration of home computers. A consortium of a major electric utility, a telephone company, and a cable provider tried to create a network infrastructure in suburban Atlanta to provide the delivery system needed to delivery many of the online services we take for granted today, but it proved to be cost prohibitive. It wasn't until the US government opened up their "ARPANET" to commercialization in the 1990s that the online internet world we know today began to take off.
  • The technology behind the Google search engine was originally developed by two Stanford grad students using a National Science Foundation grant, after which they secured private funding and started Google.
  • GPS was originally developed for military use, and federal research money is still being used to expand and improve the satellite network, even though it has been commercialized for a couple decades.
With many of these innovations - just like clean energy - development costs and getting things to a certain point can only be done by someone without a short-term or even intermediate-term profit focus. Just because clean energy needs subsidy today to be truly cost competitive does not mean it always will. Much progress has already been made, and will continue to be made.
 

Steve Fatula

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One may choose to believe whatever they wish. Let's use Boston as an example. It's not hocus pocus, and the numbers are readily available. Using zip code 02111, my car, if charged solely from the grid in Boston, would emit 102 grams of CO2 per mile. A 29 mpg car would emit 381 grams of CO2 per mile. So, no, it's not more than I think. Double that to a 58 mpg car, and you'd still emit more, quite a bit more. Sorry, but that's the reality. But sure, if you live in the most fossil fuel city in the US (no idea what that is), it could be close. But I already knew my numbers, though to your point, likely I am an exception on that front. We have a lot of hydro power here.

And to look at your example a different way.... By me adding solar, that's LESS production needed for everyone else, and avoiding the building of those power plants, and think of all those emissions to build those plants. None of which is why I went solar of course. Which was strictly financial (well, 95%).

Yes, the production of my ev adds a couple percent of emissions to the lifetime totals of the vehicle. The emissions from fueling up a car, from gas stations, etc isn't exactly something to ignore either. We could go on and on, but the winner is very clear.

I get it, you may not like Evs, and there are definitely reasons not to. But emissions is not one of them. And for those of us with solar, it's pretty much zero after the one time cost of producing the panels. Note, it does not matter if I get sun 100% of the day every day all year, that is irrelevant. Over the course of the year, I send more to the grid that I get from it. So, I help my neighbors. :)

There is no doubt there are subsidies going on in many states, and certainly at the federal level. As Jim points out, there are valid reasons for that. But that still has nothing to do with emissions.

I am not one to suggest that everyone must drive an EV. I know some are to your point.

Just some numbers to ponder, just find it interesting. I put around 800 miles a month on my car. That's about 200 kWh. Over the course of a year, my house + car uses approximately (since it varies every year of course) 10,000 kWh. So, again to your point, my car uses around 2,400 kWh/year, which is ~25% of my total electric usage. So, it's no small amount, you are correct. If one says let's make everyone get an EV, no way that can happen. To be fair, my electric use is very low in this part of the country. Most houses here, even much smaller houses, use way more than we do. Our house is pretty "green".
 
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bazzap

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I would really welcome the chance to switch to an EV (with a practical range)
Currently in the UK though, my Audi is less than 1/3 the cost of the lowest priced Audi EV (~$100k)
Yes, I know there are cheaper options, but I like Audis.
So sadly for me and Perhaps many others we are quite some way off it being a viable option.
 

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Here's a great video that busts the myths about electric cars and the amount of relative C02 required to produce. I've worked as an Engineer in the Consumer Electronics field for over 30 years deploying battery technologies into literally tens of millions of products. I am a strong advocate for EV's and often talk with the Marriott Resorts GM's about deploying EV charging at the resorts.

Anyway - here's the video with citations and it's in partnership with organizations I trust.

 
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