• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Sweden becomes country with highest coronavirus death rate per capita

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,928
Reaction score
10,281
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
Again, need to look back a year from now to see the complete data.
 

am1

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
8,171
Reaction score
1,552
May be true but depends on the final results more or less. They are hoping to get it over with fast.
 

Rjbeach2003

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
407
Reaction score
335
Location
United States
I constantly saw, less so now, posts by people downplaying this pandemic pointing to the shining example of Sweden. Their cases and deaths per capita have been significantly higher than their neighbors Denmark, Norway and Finland.
Sweden has 3124 cases/million, 20,800 test/million, and 380 deaths/million
Denmark has 1920 cases/million, 84,765 tests/million and 95 deaths/million
Norway has 1529 cases/million, 41,180 tests/million and 43 deaths/million
Finland has 1163 cases/million, 28.196 tests/million and 55 deaths/million.

Those four countries have very similar populations, but the way they chose to deal with Covid19 were strikingly different. I don't think we have to wait until next year to determine that Sweden's approach was a failure, causing the cases and deaths of many more than their neighbors.
 

WVBaker

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,487
Reaction score
2,087
Where are those who were praising Sweden's health care system as one of the best in the world? :wave:
 

"Roger"

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,682
Reaction score
4,438
The data shown in Post #5 is from the same source as cited in Post #6. It reflects the death rate from the beginning of the outbreak. What Post #1 indicates is that the big five now have decreased their death rates below what is currently occuring in Sweden.

Someone way back asked why is Sweden always being compared to the other Scandanavian countries. Why not (and I am making this up, Bangladesh)? None of the articles on Sweden, pro or con, have denied that the other Scandanavian countries have a culture more similar to each other than say Bangladesh and this culture style is what is suppose to give the Swedish experiment a chance of success. Also, these countries are a similar distance from what was the epicenter of the big European outbreak.

Maybe, long term, Sweden will come out looking better for their experience (I am not saying that their experiment has already been proven a failure, they are in it for the long game), but current data (Post #1 or Posts #5 and #6) have not been good.
 

Monykalyn

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2015
Messages
793
Reaction score
955
Location
SW MO
Maybe, long term, Sweden will come out looking better for their experience (I am not saying that their experiment has already been proven a failure, they are in it for the long game), but current data (Post #1 or Posts #5 and #6) have not been good.
Yeah-definitely too soon to tell. And still not good in anyway. Will be interesting though if a 2nd wave does occur-how will they fare with possibly getting that "rip of the bandage whole" approach over with as painful as it is?
 

davidvel

TUG Member
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
8,594
Reaction score
5,531
Location
No. Cty. San Diego
Resorts Owned
Marriott Shadow Ridge (Villages)
Carlsbad Inn
I constantly saw, less so now, posts by people downplaying this pandemic pointing to the shining example of Sweden. Their cases and deaths per capita have been significantly higher than their neighbors Denmark, Norway and Finland.
Sweden has 3124 cases/million, 20,800 test/million, and 380 deaths/million
Denmark has 1920 cases/million, 84,765 tests/million and 95 deaths/million
Norway has 1529 cases/million, 41,180 tests/million and 43 deaths/million
Finland has 1163 cases/million, 28.196 tests/million and 55 deaths/million.

Those four countries have very similar populations, but the way they chose to deal with Covid19 were strikingly different. I don't think we have to wait until next year to determine that Sweden's approach was a failure, causing the cases and deaths of many more than their neighbors.
Where are those who were praising Sweden's health care system as one of the best in the world? :wave:
Seems Sweden is doing quite well as compared to these states that have completely locked down their societies, "quarantined" the healthy, destroyed many people's net worth, livelihood, graduations, weddings, and ostracized those with a differing thought:

Deaths/1M pop
Sweden 380

State Deaths/1M pop
New York 1,473
New Jersey 1,214
Connecticut 974
Massachusetts 862
District Of Columbia 577
Louisiana 561
Rhode Island 508
Michigan 502

But we won't know till it's all over who had better outcomes, overall. . .
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
I do not understand why people want to see Sweden fail. First, that is like rooting for more deaths in Sweden. Second, wouldn't it be nice to know if it is possible to manage coronavirus with less severe measures, especially since everyone is trying to open up now?
 

Luanne

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
19,892
Reaction score
10,792
Location
New Mexico
Resorts Owned
Maui Lea at Maui Hill
San Diego Country Estates
I do not understand why people want to see Sweden fail. First, that is like rooting for more deaths in Sweden. Second, wouldn't it be nice to know if it is possible to manage coronavirus with less severe measures, especially since everyone is trying to open up now?
My opinion, I don't think anyone wants to see Sweden "fail". Some of us, me included, just don't understand why they are being held up as a good example. And why are we comparing Sweden to some of our states instead of comparing them to neighboring countries?
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
Seems Sweden is doing quite well as compared to these states that have completely locked down their societies, "quarantined" the healthy, destroyed many people's net worth, livelihood, graduations, weddings, and ostracized those with a differing thought:

Deaths/1M pop
Sweden 380

State Deaths/1M pop
New York 1,473
New Jersey 1,214
Connecticut 974
Massachusetts 862
District Of Columbia 577
Louisiana 561
Rhode Island 508
Michigan 502

But we won't know till it's all over who had better outcomes, overall. . .

And the USA as a whole is not that far behind Sweden. 286 vs 380. I think the USA has had one of the worst responses in the world.
 

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,022
Reaction score
5,521
Location
Coastal Virginia
My opinion, I don't think anyone wants to see Sweden "fail". Some of us, me included, just don't understand why they are being held up as a good example. And why are we comparing Sweden to some of our states instead of comparing them to neighboring countries?


Sweden, the socialist welfare state has (ironically) more "freedom" in dealing with the pandemic :)
 

TravelTime

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
8,114
Reaction score
6,472
Location
California
Resorts Owned
All Resale: MVC DPs, Marriott Ko Olina, Marriott Marbella, WKOVR-N, Four Seasons Aviara
My opinion, I don't think anyone wants to see Sweden "fail". Some of us, me included, just don't understand why they are being held up as a good example. And why are we comparing Sweden to some of our states instead of comparing them to neighboring countries?

I think people are comparing Sweden to other countries and the USA because they are taking a big picture approach. We compare the USA to other countries, not to Canada and Mexico only. We compare states that are geographically distant to each other. Just to play devil's advocate, why are some people only comparing Sweden to its neighbors?

Sweden is not being held up as a good example. More time is needed to see if the Swedish approach has any lessons to be learned, either good or bad. My interest in Sweden is more as a study to see could a country with a different approach end up the same or possibly better than other countries with a more extreme approach. What works and doesn't work? I also am interested in what Taiwan, Germany, Vietnam, South Korea, New Zealand and others have done and how results compare. What can we learn? The USA needs a lot of learning as we completely failed.
 
Last edited:

WVBaker

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
2,487
Reaction score
2,087
Is Sweden's Covid-19 Handling a Failure or a Success?

Success is in the eyes of the beholder.
A death rate 5.5x is acceptable to some but not others.
But Sweden has a ton of pressure to under-report Covid deaths. I would be shocked if they didn't.
Regardless, one can easily look at this data, ignore the undercounts (perhaps even factor some in), and conclude Sweden did the right thing.


Sweden Not a Good Model
Even if one is happy with Sweden's results, it is not a representative model for large US cities.

 

Panina

TUG Review Crew: Elite
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
6,928
Reaction score
10,281
Location
Florida
Resorts Owned
Hgvc Anderson, Blue Ride Village Resort
The US is like having 50 countries, different rules, crossing borders. I don’t believe in comparing apples to oranges.

As far as Sweden long term looking back we will know. Will the overall deaths be the same as their neighbors but shorter in duration or will their approach be more devastating? Data today cannot answer these question.
 

geist1223

TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
6,455
Reaction score
6,301
Location
Salem Oregon
Resorts Owned
Worldmark 97,000 Credits
DRI Cabo Azul 50,500
Royal Solaris San Jose del Cabo
Oregon's Population is 4.3 million. Oregon has had 140 Covid19 deaths as of yesterday. So Oregon's current rate is 32.56 Covid19 deaths per million in population.
 

Cornell

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
3,939
Reaction score
6,393
Location
Chicago
The USA needs a lot of learning as we completely failed.

I think a by-product of this entire episode is that a significant segment of our society believes our response has been a failure (mass quarantine wasn't the right approach). As a result, I question whether the public-at-large would ever cooperate with something like this again (if asked to) in the future.

The analogy that I have is hurricane warnings that haven't come true and people say "no more" when they are asked to evacuate.
 

Luanne

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
19,892
Reaction score
10,792
Location
New Mexico
Resorts Owned
Maui Lea at Maui Hill
San Diego Country Estates
I think a by-product of this entire episode is that a significant segment of our society believes our response has been a failure (mass quarantine wasn't the right approach). As a result, I question whether the public-at-large would ever cooperate with something like this again (if asked to) in the future.

The analogy that I have is hurricane warnings that haven't come true and people say "no more" when they are asked to evacuate.
Since we did do a mass shut down we'll never know what the results would have been if we hadn't.

I don't know what the response would be if we are asked to do something like this in the future.
 

Brett

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,022
Reaction score
5,521
Location
Coastal Virginia
I think a by-product of this entire episode is that a significant segment of our society believes our response has been a failure (mass quarantine wasn't the right approach). As a result, I question whether the public-at-large would ever cooperate with something like this again (if asked to) in the future.

The analogy that I have is hurricane warnings that haven't come true and people say "no more" when they are asked to evacuate.

I'm not sure the pandemic is comparable to a hurricane warning o_O
and a "mass quarantine" ...... I still went to Home Depot, Lowes, grocery stores, Walmart, etc .....

But yes, the federal government's response to the coronavirus could be judged a 'failure'
 

Big Matt

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
6,205
Reaction score
1,677
Location
Northern Virginia
Just remember one thing (I think it is a fact). When you do shelter in place, you flatten the curve, but you also extend the curve for a longer period of time. Sweden decided to take the path of letting the curve go way up early and ending earlier. So, my question is: Has Sweden allowed more people to be exposed to the virus and will their deaths decline or end much sooner? Again, per several posters. Let's wait and add it up at the end and we'll see who was right or wrong. There will be a lot of people who will start getting their torches and pitchforks if the United States wrecked the economy and still had more deaths.
 

geekette

Guest
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
10,806
Reaction score
5,618
....There will be a lot of people who will start getting their torches and pitchforks if the United States wrecked the economy and still had more deaths.

If the torches and pitchforks were going to come out, it would have been as soon as it was known that the virus was not only in a WA nursing home, but allowed to freely travel the country. Which is why the shut down was necessary, to slow the epidemic, to avoid over-running all the hospitals. It did not have to be this way, nor did it have to be an 'infect everybody' method. It could have been contained. It was not.
 
Top