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SVC to CWP conversion

Sjaknight

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We attended an owners update last Thursday where we signed a contract to convert our 26,600 SVC points (24.6K Hawaii and 2K Pacific) to CWP with the purchase of 116K CWP points for $25K. In doing follow up research there were clear exaggerations by the sales people but the value still appears to be greater to us than keeping our SVC points. However, from reading recent posts to this forum it would appear we overpaid for the CWP points. Also I am wondering if the CWP points will have lower maintenance fees. We would welcome input while we are still in the 7 day rescission window.
 

HudsHut

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Rescind RIGHT NOW.
Get your $25,000 back.

Welcome to TUG.
We are delighted you found us in time.

After rescinding, come back, ask questions, and decide what transaction, if any, is best for you.
 

Sjaknight

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Rescind RIGHT NOW.
Get your $25,000 back.

Welcome to TUG.
We are delighted you found us in time.

After rescinding, come back, ask questions, and decide what transaction, if any, is best for you.
May I ask why you say this?
 

basham

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For this reason: For $25K you could likely buy 5 million resale points. Alternatively you could spend far less for the amount of CWP points that suit you best while still retaining your Shell points and usage.

What attracted you to the conversion, you are to be commended for asking before it is finalised.
 

Sjaknight

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Our main reason for conversion is value for our maintenance $. We now spend over $6K per year for the SVC points. For this we usually stay for two weeks each year in a 2 or 3 bedroom SVC resort in Hawaii (which we love and it takes about half the points) and the rest are used for whatever other vacation plans we have in the year. The SVC choices for other locations are quite limited for us. In all, our maintenance fee cost is around $215 per vacation day.

We usually see annual maintenance fee increases of at least 4% but there have been no significant improvements to SVC resorts in many years and especially since Wyndham took over.

By our calculations the cost of maintenance per vacation day would fall by 25 - 33% upon conversion simply because more vacation days would be available under CWP (perhaps more so if the maintenance fees decrease under CWP).

Under SVC we have 14,400 retail points and the rest are resale - so we could possibly keep the SVC retail points, sell the SVC resale points and then purchase whatever Wyndham points we may use for our non-Hawaii vacation time.
 

HitchHiker71

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How many CWP points is Wyndham granting you for the 14.4k SVC to CWP conversion and at what price/1000 points? I don’t recall the established conversion rate off the top of my head, but IIRC it is 40:1. I do not believe they will convert resale SVC points either.

Assuming my conversation rate is correct, at 14.4k points, that would equate to 576k CWP points. Did you purchase CWA or CWS deeded points? Details would help on exactly what you purchased here. I’m going to guess CWA as that way Wyndham can add your SVC inventory into the CWA trust. 576k+116k=690k which is just under the 700k required for permanent VIPG which doesn’t make sense to me.

If Wyndham actually converted all 26.6k points, that would equate to 1.064MM CWA points plus the 116k points you purchased. This would put you at VIPP permanently which is a pretty good deal for 25k total.

Please give us the contract details and the conversion rate and we can help you to determine the best next steps to take here.

That said, if you think you may have paid too much, you can always rescind, do more homework on how best to convert SVC to CWP; and go back for another conversion deal that works best for you long term.

If you purchased 116k for 25k, and these are CWA points, then you paid $215/1000 points which is pretty steep, as you can get CWA at some resorts down around $150/1000 points. If you purchased CWS, $215/1000 is still high. What I don’t know is the SVC component here, and what the SVC resorts are typically selling at $/1000 at their local resorts. I believe there’s a pinned thread on SVC deals here as well, I would recommend posting into that thread if you haven’t already.

Specific to your MFs, if you purchased CWA points at $6.59/1000, and your contract has a total of 690k points, that would equate to 690*6.59=$4547.10 per annum. If you have the 1180*6.59=7776.20 per annum. So according to your contract what are your MFs now? Or are they still allowing you to keep your current $6k/annum MFs against a certain number of CWA points?


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Sjaknight

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We will have 26.4K SVC points converted at 40X which as you calculated comes to 1.064MM plus the 116K. The contract only specifies the MF on the 116K at ~$73/mth. Only the SVC retail points (14.4K) qualify for VIP status so with the 116K purchased we will have 690K qualifying for VIP. The rest will be treated as resale purchased points in the Wyndham system I presume.

I'm not sure what CWA or CWS means - all of the contract documents refer to Club Wyndham Plus points with deeded ownership. Should I be looking for something more specific if we decide not to rescind?
 

Sjaknight

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The contract does refer to a Trust Agreement.
 

HitchHiker71

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We will have 26.4K SVC points converted at 40X which as you calculated comes to 1.064MM plus the 116K. The contract only specifies the MF on the 116K at ~$73/mth. Only the SVC retail points (14.4K) qualify for VIP status so with the 116K purchased we will have 690K qualifying for VIP. The rest will be treated as resale purchased points in the Wyndham system I presume.

I'm not sure what CWA or CWS means - all of the contract documents refer to Club Wyndham Plus points with deeded ownership. Should I be looking for something more specific if we decide not to rescind?
From what you have said i would rescind this deal if you truly only have 690k developer points that qualify for VIP, as you need 700k minimum to qualify for permanent VIP Gold (VIPG). I’m really surprised they didn’t sell you 126k to get you up to VIPG permanent right out of the gate as that is a very common amount of points sold. Based upon this fact alone, I would seriously consider rescinding. Did they attach any bonus points to this deal to bump up your VIP level? I would have expected this as well as doing so would have given you two years of VIP platinum (VIPP).

CWA is Club Wyndham Access (a trust ownership that holds deeds) whereas CWS is Club Wyndham Select (direct deeded ownership). CWP is the trading program that everything ties into. Somewhere in that document it has to tell you what you actually own, but we can try to back into it by reverse engineering what you have said.

$73/month adds up to $876/annum. $876/116=$7.55/1000 points if my math is right. That’s higher than the $6.59/1000 for CWA, but that $73/month may include your program fee as well, so it’s hard to tell at this point what you actually bought going this route.

It’s also worth saying out loud that you are still going to have to pay your original MFs on your legacy SVC points at $5k/annum in addition to the $73/month of net new points if I’m understanding what you have said correctly.



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Sjaknight

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Thank you that is very helpful. And the 73 does include the program fee.

I have to double check when I get home as our retail points may be 14.8K.
 

Richelle

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For this reason: For $25K you could likely buy 5 million resale points. Alternatively you could spend far less for the amount of CWP points that suit you best while still retaining your Shell points and usage.

What attracted you to the conversion, you are to be commended for asking before it is finalised.
Perhaps you should ask if they want resale. Maybe they want to be VIP. In which case, retail is the way to go. I still think they should rescind, but maybe ask what it is they want to get out of their ownership, before sending them down the wrong path. Just because VIP and Club Pass are not worth it to you, doesn’t mean it’s not worth it to others.


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Richelle

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Thank you that is very helpful. And the 73 does include the program fee.

I have to double check when I get home as our retail points may be 14.8K.
If you want VIP and/or Club Pass, you have to buy directly from Wyndham. You mentioned that the maintenance fees are lower with Wyndham. If I understood HitchHiker71’s math, it sounds like it would be. However, look at the savings versus the upfront costs that you paid for those points. Figure out how long it would take to recoup that upfront cost in the form of maintenance fee savings. Maintenance fees go up every year, and the gap between the two may stay the same, get smaller, or get larger. It’s hard to get a real number on how long it will take to make up your upfront costs, but you can get a rough idea if you assume the gap will remain the same. I spent extra to get National Harbor points for the lower maintenance fees. I looked at it as those upfront costs are a one time deal. Maintenance fees are long term. I may or may not make up the $5,500 difference (compared to CWA) but I will likely always have fees cheaper then CWA. NH maintenance fees increased a whopping 8.57% this year due to tax hikes. They are appealing that and expect to win. Unfortunately, they had to send out the budget before they could get their appeal heard. So assuming they win, we should see a decrease the following year. At least, that’s according to the HOA person I spoke too. Either way, the MF are still lower then CWA.

With that said, I agree with others that you should rescind and research. If you want VIP, I recommend doing what HitchHiker71 said and buy the extra 10,000 points to get you to Gold. The point requirements are supposed to go up next year, so getting Gold now would be cheaper. If you want Club Wyndham Access (CWA) points (which is a membership to a trust and not deeded), you can get those points for around $155 per 1,000 through telesales. Last I heard, telesales does do Shell conversions. If not, you could always go to any resort to buy more points. Last I heard, telesales doesn’t do deeded points. They only do CWA. One rep told me they could request deeded inventory, but it doesn’t always get approved. It’s worth a shot.


Regardless of which route you decide to go in the end, again, I would recommend you rescind. That way, you have more time to figure out what you want out of your ownership, and if it’s worth the cost to convert. At minimum, rescind so you can get a lower price and add on the extra 10,000 points to get permanent VIP Gold.


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HitchHiker71

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With that said, I agree with others that you should rescind and research. If you want VIP, I recommend doing what HitchHiker71 said and buy the extra 10,000 points to get you to Gold. The point requirements are supposed to go up next year, so getting Gold now would be cheaper. If you want Club Wyndham Access (CWA) points (which is a membership to a trust and not deeded), you can get those points for around $155 per 1,000 through telesales. Last I heard, telesales does do Shell conversions. If not, you could always go to any resort to buy more points. Last I heard, telesales doesn’t do deeded points. They only do CWA. One rep told me they could request deeded inventory, but it doesn’t always get approved. It’s worth a shot.


Regardless of which route you decide to go in the end, again, I would recommend you rescind. That way, you have more time to figure out what you want out of your ownership, and if it’s worth the cost to convert. At minimum, rescind so you can get a lower price and add on the extra 10,000 points to get permanent VIP Gold.


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That's good info @Richelle, I didn't realize that telesales could do SVC conversions! Last I heard these were limited only to select SVC resort locations. Even better for the OP. Telesales is almost always going to beat the local resorts on CWA pricing IME. I bought through telesales last year and my net cost for 210k CWA points was $134/1000 with rebates. If you go the telesales route, always ask about available rebates, as not every telesales rep passes them along (sorta like automotive dealer rebates - not every dealer passes them along to consumers unless you know to ask for them). Also, if you decide to go VIP using this conversion, make sure they give you bonus points as well, since that will give you two years of VIPP ownership, after which you would then drop down to VIPG permanently. If you really want VIP - make it happen before the Privileges program goes into effect sometime in late 2020, as the point thresholds are rising 100k for each of the current levels, meaning to get to VIPG under Privileges will require 800k annual points instead of the current 700k.

Actually, now that I think about it, if you really want to be VIP, you've got a golden opportunity here to become permanent VIPP via the PIC program. PIC is a program that allows you to pick up a non-Wyndham weeks based timeshare that integrates with RCI, and get an annual points allotment for doing so via a PIC contract. If you found a 3+ bedroom PIC property and brought it into your initial purchase at the same time as your SVC conversion, you'd have:

576k SVC converted points
254k PIC points
___
830k points

You'd need to obtain at least 171k CWA points retail to make this work, that would get you to 1.01MM developer points, and give you permanent VIPP. Wish I had this option myself. If this appeals to you or if you have any other questions, let us know, we're all here to help you! :)
 

Sjaknight

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Does anyone have a number for or contact at telesales?
 
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