Suckered into the points over the property

[idahorider336]

So I am actually in the Westin Ka'anapali-North as I type this with that "did I do the right thing" feeling. Actually, after getting such great advice from experts on this forum I know what the right thing to do is. I just need a little push. I bought the developer option yesterday not just because I was so impressed by these villas, but because of the incentives they offer with the property. I know that timeshares are something I want my young family to be apart of, because I know it's the best way to vacation. Sadly, this was not my first timeshare presentation, but was my first purchase.

Here is the low down

Westin Ka'anapali-North basic room package (building 4) which is completely fine with me

floating unit\odd years 148,000 starwood options

So, yeah, I bought it for 31k at 12.9apr. Was planning on financing when hitting the mainland for a lower apr.

What else will they give me besides cookies and a cool binder?

1. 100,000 starwood points
2. 25,000 starwood points (signing up for the American Express card)
3. option to buy 80,000 starwood points once every 4 years for $1500 bucks a pop.
That's a possibility of a nice spot in maui and 445,000 starwood points for 37k. Not counting the interest of course but I should

I am kind of a points junkie (check out worldwanderlusting.com)
Starwood points have incredible power over a lot of other major point companies\programs. (more bang for the point)

I really think I made the purchase because of my greed for points.

TELL ME TO RESCIND. TELL ME TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND PURCHSE A BETTER\SAME TIMESHARE FOR HALF THE COST WITHOUT THE POINTS.

Im so torn but I only got 5 days to go...

Please Help! Are the points worth it???

 

[Ken555]

TELL ME TO RESCIND. TELL ME TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND PURCHSE A BETTER\SAME TIMESHARE FOR HALF THE COST WITHOUT THE POINTS.

Rescind. Research. Rejoice.

And don't assume you can refi a timeshare loan (other than via home equity or other source you control - I doubt you'll find a bank willing to finance one). There's a reason they charge 12.9% for timeshare loans at the resort.

There are only a few reasons to buy direct, and you didn't mention any of them. Rescind now and you'll realize you can always - always - be able to buy again direct if you really want to...but I doubt you will.

Btw, building 4 is in the south property.

Fwiw, I spent two weeks at WKORV just recently and used other Starwood resale units to trade in - my entire cost? About $900 per week, in a two bedroom...and that's not including the $1 deed (vs your $31,000 + ~$2200 MF).

Points are great, but you're spending way, way too much for them. Just think why they give them out... Oh, and you'll save more than half the cost when you buy resale.

 

[jarta]

Actually, after getting such great advice from experts on this forum I know what the right thing to do is. I just need a little push.

Here's a push. You are not comfortable with your purchase. You should be. You know you made a mistake. So, rescind. EOS. Salty

 

[SMHarman]

TELL ME TO RESCIND. TELL ME TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND PURCHSE A BETTER\SAME TIMESHARE FOR HALF THE COST WITHOUT THE POINTS.

Im so torn but I only got 5 days to go...

Please Help! Are the points worth it???

RESCIND. DO MORE RESEARCH AND PURCHASE A BETTER\SAME TIMESHARE FOR HALF THE COST WITHOUT THE POINTS.

Here are some examples.

Every Year Ocean View
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161009459656?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
The Bankruptcy process on this I'm sure put many off.
Half the price, Ocean (I imagine yours is island) View.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111037627031?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
This guy was asking more than peeps wanted to pay on ebay but
OCEAN FRONT. Every Year and possibly would have taken what you just agreed to pay Starwood.

This one is easy.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/148-100-STA...622&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=1&sd=111037627031&

Buy it now for $14,500. Ocean View EVEN EEY usage. Thats much better than what you bought (but even not odd) for less than half price. The Ocean View means that if you book 8-12 months out you will get an Ocean View, not an island view and because it is Ocean View it should maintain that value at resale (unless SVO really ramp up the MF). In fact if in 10 years we get back to a decent economy you may even come out ahead and be able to sell for more than you purchased.

You're throwing in things that don't need your timeshare purchase into the mix. 25,000 options from the credit card. I just got that. I didn't buy retail, I just went to American Express website. Want another 25,000? Have your partner sign up.

Want more StarPoints - Buy them.
https://buy.points.com/PointsPartne....html?language=en&product=BUY&EM=BUY_SP_Q1_13
$700 for 20,000 and they just finished a special offer where you could have bought them for $525, a 25% discount.
http://loyaltylobby.com/2013/03/11/buy-starpoints-at-up-to-25-discount/ You and your partner can each buy 40,000 points each year for a little over $1,000 (oh and earn 1,000 more points on your starwood amex for buying them). I have not used this offer but you may also be able to gift points to each other to make it 40k a year each.

Clearly you like WKORV/N so buying is likely not a bad idea, but realize that if you are financing then even with say a HELOC at 5% on the $14,500 ebay price you are adding $725 in interest bill (though with a HELOC that has tax deductibility) to your vacation cost each year. Thats equal to a flight from the mainland to HI.

So, ask yourself. Are 100,000 points worth 16,500 dollars. I'll tell you this. Here is my sweet deal of the day.
You give me $16,500 dollars and I will buy you the equivalent of 100,000 starpoints of accommodation in return. In fact if the Starwood hotel option is full I will offer you accomodations in a similar grade hotel (Marriot, Hilton etc) to make sure you get a room in the place you want to go, when you want to go. If you want to exchange those points for flights. I will work to get you on the best possible routing on any carrier that flies the route.

But wait, call now and I will quadruple that offer.

$37,000 less $14,500 = $22,500

Give me $22,500, that's only $6k more and I will certainly buy you 445,000 starwood points of travel and accomodations.


RESCIND, buy something like that ebay unit and take my offer. You won't regret it.

 

[PamMo]

+1 What SMHarman, Jarta, and Ken wrote. Rescind, research, and buy when you've REALLY thought it through. It's incredibly tempting to fall in love with the idea of owning in Maui when you're having a great vacation in paradise!

 

[LisaRex]

Basically, you're borrowing $31,000 so that you could lock in the right to stay in a 2 bdrm villa every other year, for ~$500-1000 less than you could rent a BETTER (OF) unit out. Oh, plus some perks that might be worth a few hundred bucks. That's no only a laughably bad deal, but by paying 12.9% interest, you're actually taking money AWAY from your future vacations.

Dude, we all love points, but Cardinal Rule #1 of point collecting is that you don't pay interest. EVER. First of all, if you're carrying a balance, it's a strong indicator that you're living beyond your means. Stop it. Vacations are a luxury, not a right.

Secondly, whatever deal you're getting by accumulating points is being eroded every time you pay an annual fee or interest. Those that play the game well don't say things like "I know I should count the interest in my calcuation, but I'm going to ignore it." That's a fool talking. And you know what they say about a fool and his money.

It makes absolutely no sense to accumulate a pileful of points that you grossly overpaid for. It's akin to Bob Newhart's wife, Mary, selling more Mary Kay cosmetics to herself so that she could get a bigger commission check.

As you already know, you should rescind everything... except possibly the Starwood credit card application. Keep that only that if you never carry a balance. If you do, then you're better off searching for the lowest interest card you can find. Or, better yet, quit spending more than you make. It's a bad trend.

 

[timeos2]

Rescind. This isn't a good value. You honestly took a look, did more research and now know there are better ways to accomplish your goals (and save money over this deal).

Be glad you have the resources to help figure all this out. If all you had was the sales group you know they are in it for whats best for them, not you.

 

[PamMo]

Ah, come on, LisaRex, give Idaho a break. He's a first time poster and it DOES appear he knows it's not a good deal for him to buy - he's begging us to tell him to rescind! I think he's a newbie having a great vacation in Maui, he went on a sales presentation and bought the pitch to buy hook, line, & sinker, but soon realized signing that purchase agreement was a bit hasty. We've all made foolish, emotional decisions - I give him credit for looking up TUG and posting here.

 

[LisaRex]

Ah, come on, LisaRex, give Idaho a break.

I'm into Tough Love. (Besides, how can you be the Good Cop if there's no Bad Cop?)

 

[sjsharkie]

+1 to everyone's advice.

At the end of the day, if you rescind now, think about it, and still decide it's a good deal (you won't), the offer will always be there. The sales people say it won't, but it will.

There are a number of reputable brokers on this board that can help you get what you want for less money if you don't want to go it alone on ebay.

Rescind now before it's too late -- send your rescission through certified mail. Do not drop it off at the sales office, do not answer phone calls from the sales people.

-ryan

 

[Bill4728]

I'm not going to tell you to rescind (OK I lied I will tell you that) BUT the key thing is you bought at a "mandatory" resort. So when you go to sell it you'll only have lost 1/2 of the purchase price instead of buying at Princeville and losing over 75% of the purchase price.

The big thing I'm trying to say is that at that resort if you buy resale you save about 50% (or more) and still get staroptions for use at other westin resorts. Some people say buy at the westin in AZ where the MFs are 1/2 the Hawaii MFs and still a mandatory resort and still get staroptions which can get you into Hawaii most (not all) of the year.

Hope this helps and enjoy your stay there.

We are going in Dec with my son and traded a fall 1 bd in whistler to get a 2 bd there.

 

[YYJMSP]

... if you are financing then even with say a HELOC at 5% on the $14,500 ebay price you are adding $725 in interest bill (though with a HELOC that has tax deductibility) to your vacation cost each year.

Americans can deduct the interest on a loan for purchasing a timeshare?

 

[sjsharkie]

Americans can deduct the interest on a loan for purchasing a timeshare?

Yes, if they are counting it as their second home and the debt is secured by a "qualified home" under IRS rules -- generally that means your principal residence or another property (more restrictions here) you own. Also, you cannot solely rent it out -- it has to be for personal use (a certain % is required if you also rent it out).

There are other rules, but that is the gist of it. Check the IRS pub on home mortgage interest for more info.

-ryan

Note: This should not be construed as tax advice -- please consult your own tax advisor.

 

[idahorider336]

Wow,I love this place already. I didn't get pushed, I got catapulted!!!

I am such a newbie and it showed but I usually always research everything before I buy. You will see me often because I am going to follow the advise I received and research the crap out of this. What is funny is that I was actually trying to research during the presentation but the section we were in had no wifi or cell service. Wonder why?

Thank you all again. Sending the rescind letter out today from Lahaina. I did eat all the cookies though but $25 loss vs 30kplus I'll bight it.

THANK YOU

ps to the guy about credit cards. I never carry balances on my cards or for points. I didn't look at the interest that way on this purchase but obviously you saw it the way I should have. Thanks

 

[PamMo]

Tough love wins another TUG convert!!!

 

[LisaRex]

Very wise decision. Good for you! Most of us love our timeshares, but there's absolutely no sense paying quadruple what it's worth.

Glad you enjoyed the cookies.

 

[Ken555]

I'm not going to tell you to rescind (OK I lied I will tell you that) BUT the key thing is you bought at a "mandatory" resort. So when you go to sell it you'll only have lost 1/2 of the purchase price instead of buying at Princeville and losing over 75% of the purchase price.

Actually, he would have lost a lot more than 1/2 of the purchase price. He paid $31,000 for EOY and the EOY's are going for ~$11,000 (I'm sure someone will post an accurate number) and annuals are ~$21,000.

 

[Quadmaniac]

Better Deal!

I have a better deal for you. You can pick this unit up basically for next to nothing :

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191503

Join Interval for $89, deposit this unit and exchange into WKORV/N for another $119! Less than $900/week ! How about that for a deal ?

 

[SMHarman]

Wow,I love this place already. I didn't get pushed, I got catapulted!!!

I am such a newbie and it showed but I usually always research everything before I buy. You will see me often because I am going to follow the advise I received and research the crap out of this. What is funny is that I was actually trying to research during the presentation but the section we were in had no wifi or cell service. Wonder why?

Thank you all again. Sending the rescind letter out today from Lahaina. I did eat all the cookies though but $25 loss vs 30kplus I'll bight it.

THANK YOU

ps to the guy about credit cards. I never carry balances on my cards or for points. I didn't look at the interest that way on this purchase but obviously you saw it the way I should have. Thanks

My offer still stands. :rofl:

 

[DavidnRobin]

Wow,I love this place already. I didn't get pushed, I got catapulted!!!

I am such a newbie and it showed but I usually always research everything before I buy. You will see me often because I am going to follow the advise I received and research the crap out of this. What is funny is that I was actually trying to research during the presentation but the section we were in had no wifi or cell service. Wonder why?

Thank you all again. Sending the rescind letter out today from Lahaina. I did eat all the cookies though but $25 loss vs 30kplus I'll bight it.

THANK YOU

ps to the guy about credit cards. I never carry balances on my cards or for points. I didn't look at the interest that way on this purchase but obviously you saw it the way I should have. Thanks

Congrats.
Also - if you really (really) like the WKORV/N resort (assumption since you almost bought there), and if villa location is important - I would suggest buying resale OF WKORV (south). You can get a resale EY OF for the price you almost paid for the EOY non-OF. btw, I am biased in this opinion, but since you seemed okay with spending $31K on an EOY WKORVN (non-OF) - at least before you found TUG - why not get a much better villa?

I would also recommend never financing a TS unless you intend to pay the full balance off quickly - these are luxury items that should only be purchased if you can afford to pay in cash, AND can afford the annual fees. IMO.

 

[DeniseM]

FAQ - Rescinding: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74493

 

[DeniseM]

ps to the guy about credit cards. I never carry balances on my cards or for points.

You DON'T have to carry balances for points - you get the points even when you pay your CC's off every month. We use our CC's for every cent we spend (think of it as a debit card) pay it off every month, and get points for it all - with no interest fees.

 

[Jazzbo]

So I am actually in the Westin Ka'anapali-North as I type this with that "did I do the right thing" feeling. Actually, after getting such great advice from experts on this forum I know what the right thing to do is. I just need a little push. I bought the developer option yesterday not just because I was so impressed by these villas, but because of the incentives they offer with the property. I know that timeshares are something I want my young family to be apart of, because I know it's the best way to vacation. Sadly, this was not my first timeshare presentation, but was my first purchase.

Here is the low down

Westin Ka'anapali-North basic room package (building 4) which is completely fine with me

floating unit\odd years 148,000 starwood options

So, yeah, I bought it for 31k at 12.9apr. Was planning on financing when hitting the mainland for a lower apr.

What else will they give me besides cookies and a cool binder?

1. 100,000 starwood points
2. 25,000 starwood points (signing up for the American Express card)
3. option to buy 80,000 starwood points once every 4 years for $1500 bucks a pop.
That's a possibility of a nice spot in maui and 445,000 starwood points for 37k. Not counting the interest of course but I should

I am kind of a points junkie (check out worldwanderlusting.com)
Starwood points have incredible power over a lot of other major point companies\programs. (more bang for the point)

I really think I made the purchase because of my greed for points.

TELL ME TO RESCIND. TELL ME TO DO MORE RESEARCH AND PURCHSE A BETTER\SAME TIMESHARE FOR HALF THE COST WITHOUT THE POINTS.

Im so torn but I only got 5 days to go...

Please Help! Are the points worth it???

Don't feel bad...just did the same thing except for a every year ocean view!....MORE THAN TWICE THE PRICE...$67k...I think the lure of the points swayed me ..and the fact that we spend a lot on vacations every year...so need advice... really love the idea of owning at the Westin ka'anapali...what is the current market and where best to purchase...are the 'sellmytime" sites worth looking at or is ebay the way to go?? what is a good resale price for floating, every year 2bed LO..at this point I'm happy I dodged a bullet (hopefully on the rescind)...

I'm kicking myself that I went through the hassle of docs etc.. but my previous due diligence gave me the indication that for sale prices (on various "broker" sites) were not ridiculously lower than the dev. pricing...+ incentives value (wrong assumption on all counts I know)..

So I need to recalibrate, happy to buy..just want to get advice on best deals, and potential pitfalls of resale props (if there are any)..

as a message board newbie - be gentle if you can (and if there are specific stickies) just a quick pointer and i'll figure it out from there...

thanks, and the site has been invaluable so far!

 

[LAX Mom]

I did eat all the cookies though but $25 loss vs 30kplus I'll bight it.

They gave you cookies as an incentive and if you rescind you have to pay $25 for the cookies? Seriously? I've never heard of that, but it's been several years since we've been to a Starwood presentation.

Glad you found TUG and rescinded in time. You'll find a similar (or better) resale unit and save lots of $$$!

 

[clsmit]

So I need to recalibrate, happy to buy..just want to get advice on best deals, and potential pitfalls of resale props (if there are any)..

as a message board newbie - be gentle if you can (and if there are specific stickies) just a quick pointer and i'll figure it out from there...

thanks, and the site has been invaluable so far!

Welcome! You're not the first one here to buy from the developer and then find TUG after you could have rescinded. It's OK. Read the owner stickies at the top of the board to learn how to maximize your purchase. If you financed your purchase look at the tax code to see if you can deduct the interest on your purchase, to at least minimize the pain. Read and ask questions!