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Mexico Safety & City Guides for Puerto Vallarta, Cabo, Playa del Carmen, Acapulco, Mazatlan, Cancun, Zihuatenejo/Ixtapa

dioxide45

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Some will say I am "sticking my head in the sand", but I have simply started to use the "Ignore Thread" feature, I don't see the threads after the first time. I know the safety concerns, I am not going to make a decision about traveling to Mexico based on a few news stories posted here. There are other sources of information.

No need to reply directly to my post, I won't see it again after this.
 

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IMO, I am upset with Mexican timeshare Tuggers because I feel their responses are insensitive to the Mexican people. As long as an American is not killed, they do not care if 30,000 Mexicans a year are being killed. Just say “ignore thread” and put your head in the sand so you can enjoy Mexico without guilt. It seems like as long as Mexican timeshare Tuggers can enjoy their timeshares in the hotel zone, they could care less about the problems in Mexico. To me, Mexico is experiencing the worst human rights crisis in its history right now. My intention is not to scare people. I only posted the recent murder of Americans to show that EVERYONE in Mexico is affected. I am looking for empathy, understanding and caring by the Mexican timeshare Tuggers. You can’t ignore that Mexico has at least 10-15 of the most dangerous and violent cities in the world right now. No wonder Americans are viewed as taking advantage of poorer countries. Tuggers keep saying they will continue traveling to Mexico because it is safe in the hotel zone. Instead, Mexican timeshare Tuggers should consider traveling as humanitarians in the inner cities where there is a lot of violence and trying to help the Mexicans. It is easy to sit on the beach sipping Margaraitas while mexicans are slaughtering each other as well as the occasional foreigner, priest and politician. Why don’t the mexican timeshare Tuggers do something to help Mexico? Go explore the drug zones. Go learn about the culture. Learn Spanish. I am half Hispanic, I speak Spanish, my father came to this country at age 14. My father has experienced extreme discrimination in the USA. I could go on and on about my experiences but I will stop here.
 
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T-Dot-Traveller

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IMO, I am upset with Mexican timeshare Tuggers because I feel their responses are insensitive to the Mexican people. As long as an American is not killed, they do not care if 30,000 Mexicans a year are being killed. ....... Why don’t the mexican timeshare Tuggers do something to help Mexico? .... Go learn about the culture. Learn Spanish.

Dear Traveltime ,
I understand this is an important issue for you . Here are my own thoughts .

I cannot personally “fix”Mexico’s problems . I hope the upcoming election
provides a positive change .

What I can do is visit in 2019 - and give Hector a tip that reflects the excellent service he provides . Hector is a 16 year employee at the Mayan Palace PV Marina and works hard serving guests at the pool .

I can make sure - I again learn in Feb 2019 , the name of the housekeeper who cleans our suite each day. I can make sure to tip that person as well - so that they and their family have a little more income .

I also will again ask if she would like any unused food etc that we have left on check out day .I then get boxes from Oxxo to pack it in and write a note in Spanish saying it is for xxx and sign our name and room number . I believe this helps someone .
( whether used by the recipient ,or shared by her with others )

We try to explore beyond the resort and generally do so using the bus system
because we enjoy it , & feel we see more of Mexico that way . When we do take a cab - I tip the driver - because his income is based on what each day’s customers provide .

I have read some of the history of Mexico . From that limited knowledge ,I disagree with your assessment of this being the worst humanitarian crisis in the history of Mexico . I think the Mexican Revolution period was worse . The estimates are over 1 million + killed & 1 million + refugees - some of whom went
to safety across the Rio Grande and never returned . The current issues may be closer to the “Cristo Wars “of the 1930’s .

I personally feel comfortable visiting Mexico , and will go again . While there , we spend money that circulates into the Mexican economy , and try to spend some of it with local business .

I doubt if I will ever be fluent in Spanish . I try to learn a little more each year .
 
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TravelTime, I would like to assure you that MANY Tuggers care deeply about the people in Mexico. You might be surprised by the number of people who have befriended locals, and have generously donated to social causes (schools, food banks, health clinics, animal shelters, environment, micro-funding local businesses, etc.) in the communities we've come to love. Not all of us are the self-centered margarita swilling callous tourists you think we might be.
 

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I would say the problem with discussing Mexican social issues is that this is a timeshare forum that tries to distance itself from politics and most social issues. So, I try and tread lightly on such discussions. It doesn't mean I do not care about Mexicans or Brazilians or any other group. It just means it's a timeshare forum and discussions are supposed to be directly related to timesharing. So, the plight of those outside of timeshare areas I try and not discuss as much as possible, though am guilty weighing in here and there but generally only as it relates to tourist zones. I am sorry if it appears that I for one do not care. That is not the case, however, it's the way I understand the rules of the site. Though, I have yet to see one of those threads shut down, so, am beginning to wonder if I have that right!
 

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I should have said it is the worst humanitarian crisis in modern Mexican history. Of course, we can look backwards to worse periods in the history of all countries. The world is a much better place now than in the far past - everywhere. The standard of living worldwide is the best now than ever. So I am just comparing to recent Mexican history, not the 1800s or early 1900s. Gosh, the worst humanitarian crisis was Germany in the 1930s and 1940s. It is unbelievable to realize that less than 100 years ago these atrocities happened. This is not a political statement. This is a human rights comment. I hope that is allowed on TUG.
 

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I would say the problem with discussing Mexican social issues is that this is a timeshare forum that tries to distance itself from politics and most social issues .....Though, I have yet to see one of those threads shut down, so, am beginning to wonder if I have that right!

Karen G . - the Mexican Forum Moderator has definitely shut down threads .

I appreciate her goal of being a moderator /. not the “thought police “
I am sure it is not always fun - unpaid work .
 

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IMO, I am upset with Mexican timeshare Tuggers because I feel their responses are insensitive to the Mexican people. As long as an American is not killed, they do not care if 30,000 Mexicans a year are being killed. Just say “ignore thread” and put your head in the sand so you can enjoy Mexico without guilt. It seems like as long as Mexican timeshare Tuggers can enjoy their timeshares in the hotel zone, they could care less about the problems in Mexico. To me, Mexico is experiencing the worst human rights crisis in its history right now. My intention is not to scare people. I only posted the recent murder of Americans to show that EVERYONE in Mexico is affected. I am looking for empathy, understanding and caring by the Mexican timeshare Tuggers. You can’t ignore that Mexico has at least 10-15 of the most dangerous and violent cities in the world right now. No wonder Americans are viewed as taking advantage of poorer countries. Tuggers keep saying they will continue traveling to Mexico because it is safe in the hotel zone. Instead, Mexican timeshare Tuggers should consider traveling as humanitarians in the inner cities where there is a lot of violence and trying to help the Mexicans. It is easy to sit on the beach sipping Margaraitas while mexicans are slaughtering each other as well as the occasional foreigner, priest and politician. Why don’t the mexican timeshare Tuggers do something to help Mexico? Go explore the drug zones. Go learn about the culture. Learn Spanish. I am half Hispanic, I speak Spanish, my father came to this country at age 14. My father has experienced extreme discrimination in the USA. I could go on and on about my experiences but I will stop here.

Traveltime,

I will assume your intentions are good. However, I would like to make several points for you to consider.

I find this post you use frequently extremely difficult to read. Please use paragraphs.

I find it extremely condescending to us in the Mexican forums as to our motivations, intentions, and feelings about the Mexican people and culture. I go to Mexico for a lot of reasons - one of which is I love the Mexican culture and the sincere friendliness of the people. The best thing I can do is to spend my money there in a lot of ways. I do not have the skills or capability to convert the drug czars to be good citizens.

I find many of your human rights and safety comments very questionable - Yes they have a major drug crisis to deal with. If you want human rights violations, go to Venezuela as a starter. I have a son in law from there; we are trying to get his parents out.

you say your intent is not to scare people from going to Mexico - sorry, but to me, that is exactly what your intent seems to be. We do not stay in the hotel zones when in Mexico - we go to surrounding towns and cities and mingle with the people - and are completely safe doing so. It really isn't rocket science to learn where is safe and not safe - whether in downtown Puerto Vallarta or downtown Chicago.

Mike
 

easyrider

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IMO, I am upset with Mexican timeshare Tuggers because I feel their responses are insensitive to the Mexican people. As long as an American is not killed, they do not care if 30,000 Mexicans a year are being killed. Just say “ignore thread” and put your head in the sand so you can enjoy Mexico without guilt. It seems like as long as Mexican timeshare Tuggers can enjoy their timeshares in the hotel zone, they could care less about the problems in Mexico. To me, Mexico is experiencing the worst human rights crisis in its history right now. My intention is not to scare people. I only posted the recent murder of Americans to show that EVERYONE in Mexico is affected. I am looking for empathy, understanding and caring by the Mexican timeshare Tuggers. You can’t ignore that Mexico has at least 10-15 of the most dangerous and violent cities in the world right now. No wonder Americans are viewed as taking advantage of poorer countries. Tuggers keep saying they will continue traveling to Mexico because it is safe in the hotel zone. Instead, Mexican timeshare Tuggers should consider traveling as humanitarians in the inner cities where there is a lot of violence and trying to help the Mexicans. It is easy to sit on the beach sipping Margaraitas while mexicans are slaughtering each other as well as the occasional foreigner, priest and politician. Why don’t the mexican timeshare Tuggers do something to help Mexico? Go explore the drug zones. Go learn about the culture. Learn Spanish. I am half Hispanic, I speak Spanish, my father came to this country at age 14. My father has experienced extreme discrimination in the USA. I could go on and on about my experiences but I will stop here.


My thoughts on your "awareness of Mexico " posts are that they are targeted at affluent people who vacation in Mexico in contrast to the regular Mexican citizens that for the most part are living in third world conditions. It is a fact that many Mexican citizens are lured into the drug trades, as for many, there isn't anything better economically.

Your posts seem to indicate that you may feel that the many tourists to Mexico contribute to the problems when the fact is that tourism in Mexico is very good for the Mexican economy. The employment opportunities that the many resorts provide are solid.

Mexico needs to fix Mexico. People going to resorts are not the problem with Mexico. The problems with Mexico are to many to list in any order by me but being that you are vary familiar with the culture, I am certain you know better than I what these problems are. I can not understand how you would think people going to the resorts to vacation or expats who live in Mexico are the problem.

It is pretentious of you to assume that any group of people going to Mexico does so to take advantage of the Mexican people, especially if your heritage is Mexican. If an American said what you posted in reverse it could be considered some what racist or ignorant. Consider what you said about "humanitarian efforts". What if I told a Mexican tourist that they should travel to crime ridden areas of America while they were on vacation in America and they should learn English. It doesn't sound right because it isn't right.

Bill
 

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When someone posts an isolated crime report on Mexico, many Tuggers feel the need to jump in and respond. I've been going to Mexico for decades and have certainly been one of those "defenders". But, this keeps the thread at the top of the Mexico forum (thus, more eyeballs and more comments), even if it has nothing to do with timesharing, or the places most Tuggers go, or general travel in Mexico. Old stories get rehashed over and over.

I am NOT a proponent of censoring news, but the threads get so long and go off on tangents. If someone is scared and doesn't think Mexico is a safe place to travel, we're not going to change their mind. I'm not stupid. I KNOW Mexico has problems, but I weigh that against the rewards of travelling in a beautiful country, rich in history and culture, and countless kind and generous people.

Can we please let the posts go, and not respond? Read the posts and move on if it's just someone venting. If it's an inappropriate or egregious post, flag it for a moderator to deal with.

I agree 100%.

Bill
 

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Everyone has good points. Thank you for helping me see this from a different perspective.

My father is Hispanic/Latino not Mexican specifically. Most of my older family members never learned to speak English after moving to this country. That was very bad for their ability to work and limited their opportunities. My father still speaks English with an accent (although he writes perfectly in English) and he is ashamed of his accent.

Personally, I think it is a positive to learn a little bit of a foreign language if it is somewhere you travel to regularly. I think it is also a positive to travel inland and see how the locals live - whether it is in the USA or a foreign country. It was a shame my grandparents lived in the USA for over 40 years and never learned English.

I appreciate the responses above because it sounds like many Mexican timeshare Tuggers care deeply about Mexico and the human rights issues there. I am equally concerned about human rights issues worldwide, including the USA, but I am not posting about that because it borders on being political, which is against TUG forum rules. But it might be nice to have a human rights thread in the TUG lounge. I did post an article about Venezuela but I did not comment much on it for fear of stirring the post. All I can say without being political is that when I was a child and teenager and even young adult, Venezuela was the crown jewel economically and socially of Latin America.

I will not be posting or commenting on this topic again. It is too personal to me. I relate to all of Latin America as that is my experience since childhood.
 
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Karen G

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Karen G . - the Mexican Forum Moderator has definitely shut down threads .

I appreciate her goal of being a moderator /. not the “thought police “
I am sure it is not always fun - unpaid work .
Thanks, T-Dot! I've been away from TUG and the internet for the past ten days as we were on a cruise, but now I'm back and catching up on the discussions. I'm happy to see that everyone in this thread has been very nice and no fist fights have broken out.:thumbup:
 

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IMO, I am upset with Mexican timeshare Tuggers because I feel their responses are insensitive to the Mexican people. As long as an American is not killed, they do not care if 30,000 Mexicans a year are being killed. Just say “ignore thread” and put your head in the sand so you can enjoy Mexico without guilt.

Great. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. I might add that you don't know most of us, you've never communicated with most of us (save through this board), and you have little knowledge of who we are as people and what our concerns are and aren't. So IMO, you are making some broad and damning statements about us, presuming much in the absence of real information.

I'm also not sure what we are supposed to feel guilty about when we go to Mexico. The country has invested greatly in creating infrastructure, and has created a welcoming environment for tourists. Are we supposed to feel guilty for rewarding their investment and taking them up on their hospitality?

******

It's not clear to me how tourists staying away from Mexico is going to help Mexicans get through the current crisis. Since you seem to feel this is a problem, could you help us understand the nexus?
 

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I am done with posting on the Mexican timesharing section. I apologize for upsetting you and others.
 

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I am done with posting on the Mexican timesharing section. I apologize for upsetting you and others.

Dear Traveltime ,
I for one was not upset . I sincerely hope you continue to visit the Mexican Forum & post .

I did feel you post was emotionally driven out of concern for the people impacted by the issue .
My response was based on what I personally can do , while visiting Puerto Vallarta Mexico in Feb 2019 .

I personally prefer to analyze and come up with a plan & structure that will work for me . My own emotional responses
generally don;t help me accomplish that goal . Perhaps for you ,the emotional response helps you better deal with the topic .

TUG is a forum . Give and take responses are expected .
 

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I am done with posting on the Mexican timesharing section. I apologize for upsetting you and others.
Please rest assured that you did not upset me - though I acknowledge that could easily be perceived from the tenor of my posts. And I also apologize if my posts upset you.
 

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I am done with posting on the Mexican timesharing section. I apologize for upsetting you and others.

Why not post something positive about Mexico once in a while. Like 10 positives to 1 negative. None of your posts , or anybodys posts for that matter, are anything more than interesting or entertaining , with the exception of an occasional gem post here or there.

Bill
 

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TravelTime, please don't give up on this forum. We all learn from reading and trying to understand other's perspectives. My original post was not meant to censor anyone, and I truly regret, and sincerely apologise if that's what I've caused.

I was simply hoping we could find a way to minimize random crime reports from dominating this forum. We rehash the "Mexico is dangerous" vs "Mexico is safe" debate every time someone posts a new story about a crime somewhere in Mexico.
 

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Why not post something positive about Mexico once in a while. Like 10 positives to 1 negative. None of your posts , or anybodys posts for that matter, are anything more than interesting or entertaining , with the exception of an occasional gem post here or there.

Bill

I have posted many positives about Mexico but no one notices that part. For example, my many visits to Mexico, my love of the local people, my love of Mexican architecture and art, my ability to speak Spanish, my care about human rights in Mexico and for Mexican immigrants in the USA. I have many Mexican friends too. I’ve posted great things about the Pueblo Bonito timeshare company and the Intercontinental Hotels in Cancun and Cozumel. I am a scuba diver and love diving in Cozumel. I love Puerto Vallarta. But the fact is Mexico is experiencing an increase in crime and murders and it is a human rights crisis. That is my worry and concern for the Mexican people. To be honest, I am not too worried about Americans in Mexico since the Mexican government is trying to protect foreign tourists. I only posted the recent story about the American couple and their dog that was murdered because it seems Americans only pay attention when an American is killed. Americans are not victims in Mexico. The Mexican people are the ones in pain and distress.
 
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I think we all can agree that Mexico in tourist cities like Cancun and Cabos are generally safe but there is a low risk that you may get caught in a crossfire by being at a wrong place (or maybe right place) at the wrong time. It is not very different from being in the US, you can go about minding your own business and still get shot at or run over.

There is enough information out there that we have to decide for ourselves whether we want to travel to Mexico or stay away. There is not a need to hash and rehash.
 

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I think we all can agree that Mexico in tourist cities like Cancun and Cabos are generally safe but there is a low risk that you may get caught in a crossfire by being at a wrong place (or maybe right place) at the wrong time. It is not very different from being in the US, you can go about minding your own business and still get shot at or run over.

There is enough information out there that we have to decide for ourselves whether we want to travel to Mexico or stay away. There is not a need to hash and rehash.

This is exactly what bothers me. I like you, VacationForever and I like many of your posts. My problem is that everytime we discuss crime in Mexico it focuses on whether Americans are safe or not. That is missing my point. But I am tired too of this discussion.
 

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This is exactly what bothers me. I like you, VacationForever and I like many of your posts. My problem is that everytime we discuss crime in Mexico it focuses on whether Americans are safe or not. That is missing my point. But I am tired too of this discussion.
I really do admire your passion for the Mexican people, but you have to realize that this is the "Mexico Timesharing" forum, not a general "Mexico" forum. I think it is perfectly fine for this forum to focus on topics related to timesharing in Mexico, and just because people don't want to discuss other issues here not related to timesharing, it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't care about the human rights, crime, etc. that is plaguing many parts of Mexico -- it just means that they may not feel it is an appropriate topic in this forum.

Cheers!
Kurt
 

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This is exactly what bothers me. I like you, VacationForever and I like many of your posts. My problem is that everytime we discuss crime in Mexico it focuses on whether Americans are safe or not. That is missing my point. But I am tired too of this discussion.
... and you are asking timesharing folks to go to dangerous areas to volunteer. I am sorry, that is just a stupid proposition that you made.
 

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Yes very stupid!
 

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This is exactly what bothers me. I like you, VacationForever and I like many of your posts. My problem is that everytime we discuss crime in Mexico it focuses on whether Americans are safe or not. That is missing my point. But I am tired too of this discussion.

That's a valid point - it perhaps reflects people approaching the same issue from different directions.

I'm going to respond that Mexico has an established tourism industry. It is a significant part of the economy; in locales such as Cancún, Puerto Vallarta, and Cabo tourism underpins the whole economy. IMHO - any reasonable response to the issues involving drug cartels/gangs needs to involve maintaining/enhancing/creating viable indigenous economic alternatives that present realistic opportunities for economic opportunity that do not involve becoming involving with a gang or cartel.

*******

We put my money where our mouths are. We routinely donate 10% to 20% of our income to organizations that we believe exist to make a change in the world. One major recipient of our donations is an organization that is involved with transferring land ownership to indigenous peoples in Central America via a microlending program (started in 1995, before microlending became a "thing"), that leads to deeded transfer of land ownership. The program includes training to facilitate transition from subsistence cropping (which is insufficient to pay off the loans) to economic cash crops. The communities we are involved with through this organization have successfully placed cash crops, such as snow peas, to vendors such as Costco and Lord and Spencer. Families involved with this program have moved from subsistence level existence to actually having disposable cash to spend for such items as improved housing, better nutrition, and more use of medical services

We also provide significant support for a program that provides indigenous students in northern Guatemala a tuition-free and free supplies education through high school and even into college. The students we support come from families where the parents are functionally illiterate. They are amazed, and totally grateful, that their children have an opportunity for an education that they never had the opportunity to receive. Because when they were at that age, their parents were simply trying to stay alive in the middle of a civil war, where they and their children were targeted for genocide. They are so supportive that they don't demand that their children help in the fields or go into the forests to collect firewood - which is the norm for subsistence families. They expect that their children go to school, and that once school is out the children study while it still light. The economic burden this places on these families is enormous; throughout the region farming by the entire is the norm for survival. The sacrifices these families make to support their children's education is simply unimaginable to most of us living our sheltered lives in North America. Free tuition and supplies is actually the lesser amount of their financial support.

In the organizations that we support, gang violence is a consistent issue and threat. In the villages we have had young boys, teenagers, assassinated because they refused to join a gang. Or because they started to join and backed out. We had another situation where a young man went to university, and was recruited into a gang. To prove his loyalty he was commanded to return to his village, and execute all of the family members of a village leader. It was a test of loyalty. Having done the deed, he would never be able to return to his family or the village, and he would be hunted by the police. So from that point his existence would depend on entirely on the gang.

He started the job, but, after significant maiming of the family members (including a near-death punctured lung), he realized he couldn't finish the job. So he went on the lam, hunted by his gang members as well as the police, with no place in h is past that he could return to. And in Guatemala, falling into the hands of the police when you are hunted isn't much different from falling into the hands of a gang. He did respond, one time, to an outreach contact from the organization, where we were able to learn what was going on. But he disappeared afterward, and our contacts have no idea what has happened to him.

But in the midst of this we see progress. We are now seeing young people, graduates of our programs, who are returning to the area to be teachers, agronomists, medical specialists, etc., giving back to the communities where they grew up instead of going to Guate City where there are better jobs, or taking off for the US. I think of one young woman, who typically would have been married by age 14 and a mother no later than age 16, going to University, returning as a community service worker after completing university, and getting married and having a child in her 20s, when she was more ready to provide care and support. She has been an inspiration to so many other young girls in the community, that there are options beyond getting married after puberty and starting a family while still a teenager. We believe that many of the young girls who have stayed with our program after 8th grade (we have over a 50% retention rate for girls at that age) is due to her example.

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In reflection, I confess that I probably did react emotionally to my perception that I was being characterized as having my head in the sand and feeling that I was being castigated for enjoying Mexico without guilt.

So I apologize for posting with that emotional edge.
 
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