• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 27 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $17,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $17 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

scsu_hockey_fan

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
87
Reaction score
5
Points
118
Location
Minnesota
I have a couple of questions about the history of the starwood flex program.

Do I understand this correctly? if a person were to buy into the flex program from the developer they can use star-options to stay at non-flex starwood resorts? If so how is this legally possible because that would be crossing the trust/legacy boundary, right?

Did starwood have a points system in place before flex? If so, im assuming the flex is the same set up regarding points required for a particular reservation? Transparent overlay?
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
I have a couple of questions about the history of the starwood flex program.

Do I understand this correctly? if a person were to buy into the flex program from the developer they can use star-options to stay at non-flex starwood resorts? If so how is this legally possible because that would be crossing the trust/legacy boundary, right?

Did starwood have a points system in place before flex? If so, im assuming the flex is the same set up regarding points required for a particular reservation? Transparent overlay?
First question - who knows. This would have to be challenged in court to get a legal answer, and that is a big undertaking.

2nd question - Yes, the Staroptions required to make reservations are the same whether you have Flexoptions, or conventional Staroptions.

Flexoptions become Staroptions when you use them outside your home resort.
 

scsu_hockey_fan

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
87
Reaction score
5
Points
118
Location
Minnesota
First question - who knows. This would have to be challenged in court to get a legal answer, and that is a big undertaking.

2nd question - Yes, the Staroptions required to make reservations are the same whether you have Flexoptions, or conventional Staroptions.

Flexoptions become Staroptions when you use them outside your home resort.
Thanks!

Is it true though that a developer purchase of flex can reserve at non flex starwood resorts using star options?

I apologize I do not know the starwood system. I know the hyatt one and sounds like the new hyatt one might be similar to Sheraton flex. Speculation of course.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
Thanks!

Is it true though that a developer purchase of flex can reserve at non flex starwood resorts using star options?
Yes - they are treated just like Staroptions when an owner makes a reservation outside of his home resort.
 

scsu_hockey_fan

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
87
Reaction score
5
Points
118
Location
Minnesota
Yes - they are treated just like Staroptions when an owner maintermingledrvation outside of his home resort.
Ok thanks!

How does one know for sure then if the two buckets at a flex resort are combined or intermingled or not after the home preferance period is up. I would hope it would go both ways to be fair.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
Ok thanks!

How does one know for sure then if the two buckets at a flex resort are combined or intermingled or not after the home preferance period is up. I would hope it would go both ways to be fair.
Vistana (and Starwood before them) has no transparency, and they manipulate the inventory behind the scenes - so no one knows.

Example: Last year when the reservation window opened for Staroption reservations in Hawaii, and Harborside, there was ZERO availability - literally not one reservation was available for the summer.

Then 2 mos. later, summer summer inventory was suddenly dumped in.

At the time, Starwood simply denied that it happened.
 
Last edited:

okwiater

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
233
Points
273
Resorts Owned
WKV 2B Plat+ (x2)
WSJ 3B Plat+ (VGV/BV)
WLR 2B Plat+ Oceanside
SMV 2B Plat+
Sheraton Flex (x2)
Do I understand this correctly? if a person were to buy into the flex program from the developer they can use star-options to stay at non-flex starwood resorts? If so how is this legally possible because that would be crossing the trust/legacy boundary, right?
I must be misunderstanding something. Why would this possibly not be legal? Doesn't the SVN Operator (i.e. Vistana) reserve the absolute right to allow deeds into the SVN?
 

SMHarman

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
4,171
Reaction score
84
Points
183
Location
NY NY
Ok thanks!

How does one know for sure then if the two buckets at a flex resort are combined or intermingled or not after the home preferance period is up. I would hope it would go both ways to be fair.
the trustees of the trusts would be probably breaking the law or if they allowed such things, unless that was allowed in the trust documents which I don't believe it is
 

SMHarman

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
4,171
Reaction score
84
Points
183
Location
NY NY
Vistana (and Starwood before them) has no transparency, and they manipulate the inventory behind the scenes - so no one knows.

Example: Last year when the reservation window opened for Staroption reservations in Hawaii, and Harborside, there was ZERO availability - literally not one reservation was available for the summer.

Then 2 mos. later, summer summer inventory was suddenly dumped in.

At the time, Starwood simply denied that it happened.
In this scenario Starwood does need to balance the number of known owners not in svn that and have not booked their deeded color against dropping the excess inventory into staroptions
 
Last edited:

bizaro86

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2008
Messages
2,749
Reaction score
1,593
Points
398
Location
Calgary, AB, Canada
the trustees of the trusts would be probably breaking the law or if they allowed such things, unless that was allowed in the trust documents which I don't believe it is
I think SVN acts as an exchange company, and the flex trust trades its inventory with the exchange company (at staroption value) for what it needs.
 

okwiater

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
233
Points
273
Resorts Owned
WKV 2B Plat+ (x2)
WSJ 3B Plat+ (VGV/BV)
WLR 2B Plat+ Oceanside
SMV 2B Plat+
Sheraton Flex (x2)
How does one know for sure then if the two buckets at a flex resort are combined or intermingled or not after the home preferance period is up. I would hope it would go both ways to be fair.
Proof. A 3-bedroom lockoff for next Labor Day is available only through SVN beginning at 8 months, not through Flex at 12 months.
 

Attachments

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
In this scenario Starwood does need to balance the number of known owners not in svn that and have not their deeded color against dropping the excess inventory into staroptions
I think you may have some typos here, but ALL Maui owners are in the SVN. So at 8 months, the Home Resort Reservation period ends for all owners, and anything that is unreserved (that hasn't been turned in for Starpoints, etc.) should be available for Staroption exchanges - not 2 months later.
 
Last edited:

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
13,800
Reaction score
3,122
Points
548
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Proof. A 3-bedroom lockoff for next Labor Day is available only through SVN beginning at 8 months, not through Flex at 12 months.
My guess is that Vistana favors SVN. I see the same thing with home resort availability at SBP (both phases) vs SVN. They pick out units that will be available to SVN at 8 months that might be desirable for home week owners.

The best advice is to reserve as early as possible with Flex, deeded non svn home weeks and even with SVN eligible deeded week owners.
 

maph

TUG Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2011
Messages
110
Reaction score
14
Points
228
Location
Calgary
I think you may have some typos here, but ALL Maui owners are in the SVN. So at 8 months, the Home Resort Reservation period ends for all owners, and anything that is unreserved (that hasn't been turned in for Starpoints, etc.) should be available for Staroption exchanges - not 2 months later.
Couldn't it also be that someone with a home resort reservation cancelled it with less than 8 months to go, in which case the units would become available for a Staroptions booking?
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
Couldn't it also be that someone with a home resort reservation cancelled it with less than 8 months to go, in which the units would become available for a Staroptions booking?
No - At 8 months there was ZERO availability, and then many weeks at HRA and Maui were all dumped in on the same day. It was clearly Starwood holding back inventory for 2 mos.
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
13,800
Reaction score
3,122
Points
548
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
But that example (Harborside summer 2016) wasn't normal operating procedure. I don't think it was even intentional.They were taking some units out for maintenance but the whole kit and caboodle disappeared. I think it was some kind of computer glitch and 90%+ of the SVN employees really had no idea what happened to the inventory.
 

scsu_hockey_fan

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2013
Messages
87
Reaction score
5
Points
118
Location
Minnesota
No - At 8 months there was ZERO availability, and then many weeks at HRA and Maui were all dumped in on the same day. It was clearly Starwood holding back inventory for 2 mos.
With Hyatt it is 6 months ahead when the home preference period ends.

Maybe they were testing technical changes to the program that are coming? Pure speculation. There is speculation on Hyatt discussion board that the new hyatt program is going to be similar to starwood flex and potentially include some starwood resorts? One of the posts cites a interval earnings call containing the information. Again pure speculation and wont know until the new hyatt system launches in 2017.
 

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
13,800
Reaction score
3,122
Points
548
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
Wyndham has a program where direct purchase Wyndham and Wordmark can book into each others inventory for an exchange fee a few months after the club period opens for owners in the respective clubs. If it were modeled on that similar program it would open up around 5 months prior to check in and would exclude resale Hyatt and mandatory resale SVN owners. It wouldn't take high inventory out of either club since it had been sitting in available inventory for 1 month for Hyatt and 3 months for SVN. It's also a selling point for buying direct for both clubs.
 

okwiater

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2010
Messages
1,656
Reaction score
233
Points
273
Resorts Owned
WKV 2B Plat+ (x2)
WSJ 3B Plat+ (VGV/BV)
WLR 2B Plat+ Oceanside
SMV 2B Plat+
Sheraton Flex (x2)
My guess is that Vistana favors SVN. I see the same thing with home resort availability at SBP (both phases) vs SVN. They pick out units that will be available to SVN at 8 months that might be desirable for home week owners.
I don't think so. There are only certain deeds within the Flex trust and only those deeds' usage rights can be reserved with Flex HomeOptions.
 

SMHarman

TUG Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
4,171
Reaction score
84
Points
183
Location
NY NY
I think you may have some typos here, but ALL Maui owners are in the SVN. So at 8 months, the Home Resort Reservation period ends for all owners, and anything that is unreserved (that hasn't been turned in for Starpoints, etc.) should be available for Staroption exchanges - not 2 months later.
Yes the word booked is missing from my post.

Maui older phases are an exception.

Take a voluntary resort. If you tipped the entire inventory into svn at 8 months what happens to the deed owner that goes to book at 6 months. If I was resource planning here, there would be a hold back to account for some of that forgetful customer base.
 

Scott&Laura

Guest
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
136
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Andover Minnesota
Do I understand this correctly? if a person were to buy into the flex program from the developer they can use star-options to stay at non-flex starwood resorts? If so how is this legally possible because that would be crossing the trust/legacy boundary, right?


My Answer: I personally have not read the Trust and legal incorporation. However I did talk to a Starwood salesman who told me that only certain properties of the Sheraton system could be used in the FLEX program due to issues with how the properties were originally legally incorporated or created.

Did starwood have a points system in place before flex? If so, im assuming the flex is the same set up regarding points required for a particular reservation? Transparent overlay?

My Answer: Starwood had an extremely good points program. Starwood points are worth 3.7 times a Marriott point. Keep in mind options are the inter-company currency in SVN system. i.e. In U.S. and territories dollar is used as currency—in SVN Staroptions are used. StarPoints are used as currency to exchange in the Hotel system a different entity than SVN that now incoporates Marriott hotels. However Marriott is talking 3.7 Starpoints for only 3 Marriott points meaning you will lose 23% of your value by switching Starwood to Marriott points. However as a practical reality Starwood occupies big cities and Marriott can be found in little towns. We stay in Marriotts when we go to National parks or scenic locations away from cities so for us a room in a big city is not worth more than a room where we want to be in the Wilds of Canada and America.


Scott
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
34,248
Reaction score
7,717
Points
899
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Vista
Marriott's Harbour Lake
SVV - Bella
SVV - Key West
The flex trust is no different than any other stand alone resort. They just happen to hold many weeks from several properties. They have the same rights as any other property in the network. If the trust were illegal, so would every other property accessing VSN.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
Clarification:

You can reserve ALL Vistana timeshare resorts with Flexoptions, which become Staroptions when used to make non-home resort reservations, at 8 mos. before check-in.

This thread is about Staroptions, "timeshare points," but since Starwood Hotel Points were brought up:

1 Starpoint (Starwood hotel point) = 3 Marriott Hotel Points.

This has been documented by Marriott in published announcements, and widely discussed on TUG.​

More Info: http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246519
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
55,330
Reaction score
5,879
Points
1,699
Yes the word booked is missing from my post.

Maui older phases are an exception.

Take a voluntary resort. If you tipped the entire inventory into svn at 8 months what happens to the deed owner that goes to book at 6 months. If I was resource planning here, there would be a hold back to account for some of that forgetful customer base.
Clarification: My post was only about Maui and HRA - I didn't see inventory held back at other resorts.
 

lizap

TUG Member
Joined
May 26, 2013
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
240
Points
173
Location
Louisiana
This unfounded speculation about Hyatt has been going on for over a year, most likely started by salespeople who will say anything to try to make a sale.



With Hyatt it is 6 months ahead when the home preference period ends.

Maybe they were testing technical changes to the program that are coming? Pure speculation. There is speculation on Hyatt discussion board that the new hyatt program is going to be similar to starwood flex and potentially include some starwood resorts? One of the posts cites a interval earnings call containing the information. Again pure speculation and wont know until the new hyatt system launches in 2017.
 
Top