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Spirit is filing Ch 11 Bankruptcy

Talent312

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Too bad. So sad...
 

TolmiePeak

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I guess selling cheap airline tickets and then abusing your customers isn't such a good business model after all.
 

1Kflyerguy

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Bummer. I never fly them, but my nephew got a job as a pilot with Spirit las year. Probably not good news for him.
 

dioxide45

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So the DOJ sues to stop JetBlue from acquiring them because they were worried about less competition and then they end up having to file for bankruptcy? That makes sense and didn't really save any jobs.
 

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So the DOJ sues to stop JetBlue from acquiring them because they were worried about less competition and then they end up having to file for bankruptcy? That makes sense and didn't really save any jobs.

Is it the governments role to save any company from bankruptcy?
 

joestein

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So the DOJ sues to stop JetBlue from acquiring them because they were worried about less competition and then they end up having to file for bankruptcy? That makes sense and didn't really save any

The gov't seems not to be able to figure out what to do in regards to mergers and acquisitions. They block this merger which results in spirit going bankrupt. But they spend tons of effort to stop Microsoft from buying Activision (a videogame maker) which was wasted time and effort - as they are a supplier - everyone but the FTC had no problem. Meanwhile - I dont hear boo when the telecommunication companies' merger - reducing our cell phone provider choices.
 
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dioxide45

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The gov't seems not to be able to figure out what to do in regards to mergers and acquisitions. They block this merger which results in spirit going bankrupt. But they spend tons of effort to stop Microsoft from buying Activision (a videogame maker) which was wasted time and effort - as they are a supplier - everyone but the FTC had no problem. Meanwhile - I dont hear boo when the telecommunication companies' merger - reducing our cell phone provider choices.
They did block the AT&T/T-Mobile merger over a decade ago. They just opted not to attempt to block the T-Mobile/Sprint merger. Much of it depends on the administration at the time.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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Is it the governments role to save any company from bankruptcy?
Depends on how much money the company has contributed to the politicians in power.
 

T_R_Oglodyte

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They did block the AT&T/T-Mobile merger over a decade ago. They just opted not to attempt to block the T-Mobile/Sprint merger. Much of it depends on the administration at the time.
FWIW - at the time of that proposal, AT&T was the largest cell phone company and T-Mobile was the smallest of the large companies (behind Sprint), and was struggling. The AT&T merger was a means for Deutsche Telekom to unwind their investment in T-Mobile.

After the AT&T merger was blocked, DT installed new management at T-Mobile (John Legere) and he revived T-Mobile, to the point that T-Mobile was able to acquire Sprint (the Sprint deal was a merger in name only). At the time, both Sprint and T-Mobile were behind AT&T and Verizon, so the anti-trust issues weren't quite as large as with the AT&T proposal.
 

dioxide45

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Is it the governments role to save any company from bankruptcy?
It isn't, but there really isn't a need for them to step in and block the deal? Is it their role to ultimately force one into bankruptcy? That is kinda what they did by blocking the deal. There were similar concern about XM Satellite Radio and Sirius. Neither was profitable on their own and they almost filed for bankruptcy after the merger. But the merger probably saved both companies. At least for a period of time. IMO there isn't a need for the government to intervene at all. The marketplace will work things out.
 
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TravelJoy

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So the DOJ sues to stop JetBlue from acquiring them because they were worried about less competition and then they end up having to file for bankruptcy? That makes sense and didn't really save any jobs.
Low hanging fruit, after Khan had MSFT et.al. steamroller over them!
 

TravelJoy

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Is it the governments role to save any company from bankruptcy?
Ask the bailout banks and Detroit. Besides there is a egregious ideological concept running amouk disguised as consumer protection and anti trust, therein is the issue.
 

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It isn't, but there really isn't a need for them to step in and block the deal? Is it their role to ultimately force one into bankruptcy? That is kinda what they did by blocking the deal. There were similar concern about XM Satellite Radio and Sirius. Neither was profitable on their own and they almost filed for bankruptcy after the merger. But the merger probably saved both companies. At least for a period of time. IMO there isn't a need for the government to intervene at all. The marketplace will work things out.
I think there are some legitimate reasons to block mergers as apex predators do indeed swallow whole minnows leaving consumers with reduced competitors and then they kill them off, but the government is unable to stop that from happening.
 

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I did like Spirit and had no qualms with them, still continue to use.
 

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It isn't, but there really isn't a need for them to step in and block the deal? Is it their role to ultimately force one into bankruptcy? That is kinda what they did by blocking the deal. There were similar concern about XM Satellite Radio and Sirius. Neither was profitable on their own and they almost filed for bankruptcy after the merger. But the merger probably saved both companies. At least for a period of time. IMO there isn't a need for the government to intervene at all. The marketplace will work things out.
I'd argue that because we didn't live during the 1880s and the "golden age" of monopolies, we don't really viscerally know that the market in fact won't work it out - but history kind of implies that. The question to me is - you will always have companies wanting to create a monopoly - or get as close as they are allowed / can. This is at least partially because during the "trying to become a monopoly" economies of scale are a competitive advantage.

I'd argue another related issue we've started seeing since the pandemic, but came up again with Hurricane Helene and to some extent in the airplane duopoly - Even if pricing is regulated or under control for whatever reason, having geographically highly concentrated or single company and therefore often single geographical location is a huge supply chain risk. If the only place that makes chips is taken out for some reason, or the 60% or more manufacturer of saline solution is hit by a hurricane - whole parts of the economy just stop or people can't get needed surgeries. The market isn't sorting this out, and probably won't because in "normal times" there's no ROI to even trying to compete, and as we see with Airbus - they have so many orders they have no interest in trying to take market share from the struggling Boeing. And at the huge 1-3 manufacturer level - they won't respond to any supply disruptions to try and run another factory line or take market share unless they see like a 20 year change.

However, if you've got lots of competitors, in lots of regions, this doesn't seem to happen - take something like Car Repair or cell phone manufacturing. If Apple stumbles, Samsung, Hueweii, ZTE, Motorolla, OnePlus and more are all ready to make a few more phones, and at least some of those are made in Korea rather than China. But even there - most regions have some interest in having cell phone options closer to home also - in case there is another major disruption.

We can argue the effectiveness of various government interventions, but I at least don't think the Microsoft IE reign OR the insulin debacle is actually "the market working" in terms of consumers - which I would argue is a major reason we have an economy or market at all - to get consumers things they want or need.
 

dioxide45

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We can argue the effectiveness of various government interventions, but I at least don't think the Microsoft IE reign OR the insulin debacle is actually "the market working" in terms of consumers - which I would argue is a major reason we have an economy or market at all - to get consumers things they want or need.
As for IE/MS, the market would have corrected itself. It seems to have gone that route now. There are more browser options today than any other time in history. Each OS still ships their system with their own browser but there is nothing stopping you from using something else. Just as there was nothing stopping you from using a different browser back then. The most popular browser today (Chrome) doesn't come preinstalled on very few devices. The main use for MS Edge is to download Chrome.

The market is a product of the consumer and the market is actually very good at getting a product or service from the manufacturer or provider to the consumer. That is, if the government gets out of the way.
I'd argue that because we didn't live during the 1880s and the "golden age" of monopolies, we don't really viscerally know that the market in fact won't work it out - but history kind of implies that.
I would argue that there is a HUGE difference between the marketplace of today and the marketplace almost 150 years ago.
 

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As for IE/MS, the market would have corrected itself.
I guess you see the market very differently than I did back then - there were very many sites that you were to one extent or another required to use (either by job, government, bank or others) that only would work with IE - through like 2012 or so - it lingered on IE6 for over a decade longer than it ever should have. If your chosen web browser couldn't load a site you needed to load - then it didn't matter that you *could* choose a different browser. It's still like this now - I can use Linux primarily, but I can't run TurboTax or Adobe products or many games or Autodesk products. Sure - anyone technically could choose Linux, but for a lot of jobs or even submitting the taxes or various government forms you also must have a Windows computer.
It seems to have gone that route now.
Not really, just that Google is now the monopoly. Google is singlehandedly trying to use the chrome market share to disable ad blocking for instance. They're actually proposing worse than that with various OS attestations and such where again if you don't use the "monopoly" version you'll be blocked out of many commercial, government, bank, etc websites. I hope it fails, but they seem to have won on the adblock side.
There are more browser options today than any other time in history.
There really aren't. There's Safari, only on Apple, which often doesn't work on a site. There's Firefox, which also weirdly fails on some sites. The reason is people only test on Chrome. Outside of those, all the known browsers are based on either Chrome or Firefox - Opera, Vivaldi, Brave, are actually Chrome engine and beholden to how google builds it. Waterfox, Palemoon etc are based on Firefox or a fork from Firefox from long ago and are even less likely to work on random sites that only test for Chrome. When Chrome has around 90% market share, that's what's built for, and it's no different from back when IE6 was 90% market share - the only improvement is that the rendering engine is open source for Chrome so people can make different UIs for you. But no one is forking chromium to keep features like manifest v2 and therefore ad blocking.
The main use for MS Edge is to download Chrome.
Which itself is ironic because modern MS Edge is Chrome with a different theme.
 

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As of 2 pm Friday Nov. 15 - not yet
Stock price is $ 1.16 / down .17 cents ( - 12.5 % ) today
 

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Only flew Frontier once, not good and have never flown Spirit. Why not let two crappy airlines merge and create one larger crappy airline.
 

dioxide45

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Only flew Frontier once, not good and have never flown Spirit. Why not let two crappy airlines merge and create one larger crappy airline.
They tried to merge, but then JetBlue stepped in with a better offer. I think they are currently talking merger again, but things aren't going well and probably won't happen with this news.
 

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Only flew Frontier once, not good and have never flown Spirit. Why not let two crappy airlines merge and create one larger crappy airline.

Here's the thing -- they aren't crappy. They nickel-and-dime their passengers. But anyone who doesn't play that game can get where they're going for considerably less than driving there.

My last flight on Spirit was Las Vegas to Burbank. I had my little book bag (filled with valuables for the move to Hawaii). And that's it. Total price for the two of us? $40. Usually I'll spend the extra twenty bucks for exit row. Especially on anything longer than an hour.

I've flow Spirit from Las Vegas to Oakland at least 50 times. They had a good record of being on time. And they they got me there for anywhere from $9 to $140. Usually under $100. Even buying a better seat it cost FAR less than two tanks of gas and 20 hours of drive time. I truly didn't care about checked baggage, a meal, a drink or what-have you. It's a 90 minute flight.

It's the same with Southwest and Los Angeles. I've made that flight even more than to Oakland. Usually I was surrounded by strippers commuting to work.
 

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Frontier probably has the newest fleet of planes of any of the airlines
When they flew into my home away from home airport, generally saved $200 per person overall round trip
Included seat selection and checked bag
I miss them for my 6 week commutes
 

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Frontier probably has the newest fleet of planes of any of the airlines
When they flew into my home away from home airport, generally saved $200 per person overall round trip
Included seat selection and checked bag

Frontier from Las Vegas to Grand Junction was reliably $40. I could be fishing the Roaring Fork two hours after deciding "Why don't I go fishing this weekend?" Even with airfare, it cost less to take a fishing trip that way than it does here in Hawaii.
 
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