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Fitzpatrick's Castle Holiday Homes,
Enchanted Isle.
Mine are not junk heaps
I would say these are pretty standard deals in resell market. If you know the value of what your buying and do your research you can do quite well getting free usage taking on a resell contracts. Example. Find a resell Grandview in points with 2 years of points once you buy it the points go in your account. Plus RCI resets there expiration date. Then you can turn right around and sell with some or none of the points and as long as you hold one RCI points contract you can still use the points you keep. You can actual sell the contract before you every get billed a MF.I don't sell with smoke and mirrors... I detest the emotional song-and-dance. I prefer to sell the steak, not the sizzle, and I'm certainly proud of these products because they save people a lot of money even if the deed retains zero equity value (and I have both the spreadsheets and the Goldman Sachs analysis to prove it). The deeds can be transferred via inheritance or buyback, which establishes a floor on their value, with the potential to get more on the resale market, so I'm not sure your argument that they have no value holds water.
I appreciate your anecdotes. Would you say that these were excellent deals, or were they normal by resale standards? Do you consider that product a premium one?
Because timeshare wins the numbers relative to renting or investing, and as defined one cannot get that particular product on the resale market. Again, I'm not claiming that ALL timeshare deeds are best bought direct, only some.
Those timeshares are pathetic. I sell Ferraris, not junk heaps. I can prove that MY COMPANY will buyback MY PRODUCT at an average of 50% of the market value, I demonstrate this proof in my presentation when I talk them through the spreadsheet once I get to the pricing phase at the end.
I am not sure you realize that you are refuting your own arguments. No product that has room for a 80% back in FDI and still give a commission can have any value at all.the best negotiator I sold to was able to command a FDI equal to 80% of the purchase price ($100k deed), a retarded amount that actually cut my commission in half (but half a commission is better than none, of course).
I prefer your way of selling versus the emotional hard sell. There are exceptions, that have valid reasons for buying from developers. I have read a few from other tuggers that make sense. I personally would never buy from a developer again.I'm focusing on those exceptions (positing that they exist, so thanks for your admission in that regard) from high-end brands with strong ROFRs to protect the brand. I certainly don't deny that there are a lot of timeshares that can be had for free or close to it. But some commit a composition fallacy by extending this fact with an overly broad brush.
NYC is a premium deed, given the real estate values and the fact that there are only 6 timeshare properties in the city (5 if you don't count the infamous lemon Manhattan Club).
I would say these are pretty standard deals in resell market. If you know the value of what your buying and do your research you can do quite well getting free usage taking on a resell contracts. Example. Find a resell Grandview in points with 2 years of points once you buy it the points go in your account. Plus RCI resets there expiration date. Then you can turn right around and sell with some or none of the points and as long as you hold one RCI points contract you can still use the points you keep. You can actual sell the contract before you every get billed a MF.
My suggestion to you is remove your company name data from you spreadsheet you keep talking about and post a pdf of it on here of it so people can see what your talking about. Then we can show you where we believe you are wrong.
I know you say some of your information you got from ARDA. Know this while ARDA states they exist to protect the owners of Timeshare that is completely BS. They support the timeshare companies. Well I like looking at Timeshare companies financial statements. One thing most of them show in the financial statement is the break down on the revenue for units sold to the expense against this revenue. In most systems Cost of Goods sold is below 15%, Commissions, Marketing and SGA costs are all higher.
As far as what room costs you can not look at rack rates for resorts or hotels. These are not realistic, you must look at MF cost for those stays. Since the bonus they give you is replacing what it would cost you in MF's for those stays.
Example I have exchanged into a summer week in to a Hyatt for a 2 bedroom unit. I used II for the exchange. My resort cost me $680 in MF's for the points required plus $200 exchange fee for a total of $880. I own at this Hyatt location also and a 2 bedroom unit during this week would be $1424 in MF's, If I went to Hyatt's site and tried to book the stay it would cost $4600 and change. But the largest value you can place on a weeks free usage is what MF's would have been in this case $1424.
Last year I stayed at Margarittaville in Puerto Rico. My MF cost to stay there was $1500 for a week. I stayed at the Wyndham Grand Clearwater My MF costs were about $1300 for a week. I just got back for from a stay in Key West at a Hyatt my cost really zero because account I bought had points in it. But normal MF cost $559 for a 3 night stay. I stayed at another Hyatt over Christmas for 4 nights. Again free because new account had points in it. But normal MF would have been $572. I would say my average cost for a weeks vacation in 2 bedroom timeshare is around $1100 for a week and $800 for a 1 bedroom. I stay many times for less and some times for more.
I am not sure you realize that you are refuting your own arguments. No product that has room for a 80% back in FDI and still give a commission can have any value at all.
[QUOTE="maxpot46, post: 2243933, member: 109561"
I'm not pitching here, I'm engaging in dialogue as a function of increasing my knowledge set.
I prefer your way of selling versus the emotional hard sell. There are exceptions, that have valid reasons for buying from developers. I have read a few from other tuggers that make sense. I personally would never buy from a developer again.
Only if one is young so they have many years of use, can pay with cash no loan, buys at a place that is hard to trade into, buys in a prime area and prime time and renting or hotel rooms are significantly higher then the average room rental rate that you use, then possibly buying from the developer can make sense but.....if one can buy a resale and have all that, there are many needles in the haystack in resale, just need to be patient and find them. I know because I purchased them.
I purchased my first timeshare from a developer in the 80’s when I was in my early 20’s. I went to 4 timeshare presentations. I remember 3 were emotional presentations and one used analytical data. The analytical data was the presentation that connected with me. I didn’t buy on the spot. Two days later I came back and bought but it was before I knew about resale. Put resale into the analytical data and I would have never purchased.
I can only think of one developer that rofr’s at 50%. I can think of a few that can rofr 50% for only the best weeks.
Curiousity, do you let someone walk before the best deal you can give is on the table? What negotiation factor makes you offer everything you are allowed to? I call that back pocket incentives that you have but your boss doesn’t really want you to give.
My resale Wyndham points can currently book a week during my kids’ spring break in March or their first summer week out of school. I neither needed to buy developer nor even buy a NYC deed to have that access. I know Wyndham is probably not to the level of your undisclosable system, but then again my public ivy tastes are pretty modest.
Maxpot46, I appreciate your attempts to educate us, but surely you know that you're offering best case scenario numbers vs our countless real life experiences. (There are a lot of Ivy League graduates here, too.) Every TUG member's response in this thread could be multiplied by 1,000, for all the guests who have posted on TUG about how they can no longer use, afford the rising MF's, or get out of their timeshares. The horrible "timeshare exit" industry exists because so many owners view timeshares as a financial yoke around their necks. It makes NO sense to buy a $22K (or heaven forbid $90K and up) timeshare, only to pay MF's and find out you can't use the weeks. It just adds insult to injury when you discover the timeshare has no value because no one wants it - even though your salesman told you differently.
Getting 6-8 extra weeks in developer perks sounds great when you're wearing rose-colored glasses on vacation. But, it's a rare family who can take that much vacation in the limited time frame those points/weeks have to be used. For many readers who follow TUG, they know how to get great extra weeks for WAY less than $200-250/night.
To end with, as an example of why I don't ever recommend someone buy retail, I've had too many people want to gift me their timeshares after a few years of ownership. It's an awful waste to pay full retail if you'll want out in a few years. I've been offered free Westin 148,100-176,700 StarOptions deeds, 8,400 HGVC points weeks, prime Marriott Platinum weeks, huge Diamond, Bluegreen, etc...packages. I always try to steer them to reputable resellers. You can bet Every. Single. Time. they said they were embarrassed and/or angry they believed their salesperson's promises that their timeshare was a good investment.
My resale Wyndham points can currently book a week during my kids’ spring break in March or their first summer week out of school. I neither needed to buy developer nor even buy a NYC deed to have that access. I know Wyndham is probably not to the level of your undisclosable system, but then again my public ivy tastes are pretty modest.
OP is kind of full of himself, isn't he? Ivy League econ degree and all his self-professed analytic and dialectic skills coming here to educate all us goobers.
Reminds me of the guy earlier this year calling everybody stupid. Don't remember his User ID or exactly what his schtick was but he had everybody all spun up just like this guy. I guess it is our fate to get a know-it-all every now and then.
.In all honesty, Wyndham is not highly regarded at my company, especially by the ones who used to work there.
Of course there is a cost to the developer for all the "free" weeks. I assume that, at the minimum, the developer pays maintenance fees for those weeks.We can because of the financial beauty of bonus weeks/points as a FDI. They cost nothing on the balance sheet of the company (the added usage must merely be figured into availability algorithms), but they do represent a value (opportunity cost of renting) on the balance sheet of the owner. So they can be used to strengthen the owner's value proposition very strongly without costing the corporation, a lovely win-win.
It’s too easy to talk vaguely. You come in here and make a statement but it can’t be discussed because you keep all the information that we need to discuss it to yourself, saying for professional reasons. If you don’t give specifics we can’t look into it and there is nothing to discuss.
It’s too easy to talk vaguely. You come in here and make a statement but it can’t be discussed because you keep all the information that we need to discuss it to yourself, saying for professional reasons. If you don’t give specifics we can’t look into it and there is nothing to discuss.
Others have managed to make strong contributions despite that. If you are unable, there is indeed nothing to discuss.