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Sometimes it's better to buy from the brand [says Timeshare Salesman]

Cyberc

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1. Yes.

2. Interesting, how did you acquire these figures? Is this based on soliciting buyback offers from the developer, or some other source?

3. Interesting, but I would presume that a NYC deed would experience higher rates of MF inflation than the national average, and I am using national averages in the calculations here. My research indicates that 3% is the national average (and 2.5% is from analysis of the price sheets of my own product, which are in line with what I understand to be the national average), but I am open to seeing data from an alternative source.

4. This presumes that you cannot sell the deed, whereas my company is happy (if not desperate) to buy back these premium deeds.
I enjoy reading your statements seen from the other side of the table, from your posts you seem like one of the few honorable timeshare sellers. Most timeshare sellers tend to be rude and lie. For this reason we often say on tug: how do you know that a salesman is lying... his lips are moving.

The only timeshares where ppl are actually able to get their money back if they sell that’s Disney. That assume that you are buying resale. As Disney is not operating with high/low season deeds but just points they would exercise rofr if the price is too low or if other criteria are met. Disney is also the only timeshare which you can make money owning. As Disney does not provide any incentives for buying in terms of bonus points only a small developer credit if you buy “enough” points, my guesstimate is that you aren’t working for them. Adding that Disney does not have a premium location but they do have a premium brand.

We own HGVC in NYC imo NYC is a premium location but nevertheless when we bought resale the seller had their deed listed for sale for a long time. I only know how Disney and hgvc sort of operates and none of them buys their members deeds if they wish to sell. The sellers have to find an buyer committing to buy before they decide to exercise their rofr rights. That’s also why you will see listings from time to time from HGVC NYC deeds which is priced very low ultimately they will be scooped up by rofr (chances are high)
 

DannyTS

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What??? That can't be! The buyback offer was 26% of the price you paid?!? How can that be with solid data backing up the 50% buyback claim such as a single post on Redweek and an e-mail from a broker (whose job is to maximize offers) suggesting to list at 50% of retail?

I feel for the people who bought thinking that they have a guaranteed 50% buyback program.
I think we all know now why his superiors are not comfortable with his "style" of selling. A lot of unverifiable numbers and the company may be liable. They would rather prefer him selling based on emotions.
 

davidvel

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I think we all know now why his superiors are not comfortable with his "style" of selling. A lot of unverifiable numbers and the company may be liable. They would rather prefer him selling based on emotions.
And it's surely ethical to tell a buyer that they can resell their purchase for 50% of what they paid for it, and that figure will increase 4% per year. :rolleyes:
 

DannyTS

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In a business where 50% of the retail cost is marketing and sales, it would make no sense at all for the developer to pay 50% of the selling price to acquire new inventory.

I am not sure the OP understands how the developers make money in perpetuity by selling the same properties over and over and repurchasing them over and over, preferably at a price as close to zero as possible.
 
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magmue

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I can prove that my company will exercise their ROFR at 50% of current market value, so anecdotes about getting them cheaper don't disprove the trend revealed by empirical data
I show a forum post by an owner stating his buyback offer for my product was 50%
If "anecdotes about getting them cheaper don't disprove... empirical data", then an anecdote from a forum post on Redweek re: ROFR at 50% doesn't prove your claim. You can't have it both ways.

You may be able to truthfully say "my company has exercised their ROFR at 50% at least once". That's way different than "my company will exercise ROFR at 50%".
 

DannyTS

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Can we even get a link to that Redweek post?
 

DannyTS

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We have to accept and respect that we won’t get any information which will disclose his company.
or that it is all bs. I think that it was already established that he works for HGVC
 

CalGalTraveler

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It's "Can you beat the salesman?" not "Can you beat UP the salesman?" :)

There are probably a few cases that work, but most buyers don't fit that profile. As someone wisely said in an earlier post, there are some who

1) Live by "Time is money." (Newest resorts, high discretionary budget or business purchase. "Affluents")

Alternatively, there are some that

2) Enjoy the Hunt of the Deal (aka "wild west" Ebay deals < $10k)

3) Want a Fair, Safe Deal. Some simply cannot afford throwing $75,000 - $100,000 on a timeshare without a guarantee, but could afford $10k - 30k financed ("Mass Affluents"), for an older, but nice branded resort that includes emergency exit insurance and buyout tiers based on length of ownership. Yes it's a premium over the best Ebay "wild west" resale deal, but many people will pay a premium for a safe transaction with decent financing that avoids lock-in.

Simple market segmentation.

The problem is that developers haven't recognized that they are missing opportunities by not serving segment 3 "Mass Affluents" via separate channels with decent financing and trusted deals (e.g. it is difficult to find buyers that have more than $5000 cash on hand to buy a resale timeshare. This puts downward pressure on value which doesn't help their high-end sales.) So developers sell "Mass Affluents" a product designed for segment #1 Affluents and fail miserably when the buyer realizes that they were a round peg shoved into a square hole they cannot afford, or doesn't fit their travel lifestyle and want to bail out.

Consequently by not developing segment #3, the segment #2 deal hunters are getting killer bargains on premium properties because of fragmentation and lack of maturity in the resale market (insufficient demand caused by perceived risk or lack of resale market know-how). Enabling a product set for segment #3 should contribute to stabilizing the fractured resale market for mid-tier properties and older premium locations. This would better support high-end sales by demonstrating that the floor doesn't fall out of resales.

However developers are too sh** scared of cannibalizing their high-end and too fat with margins to wake up to this so they are painting themselves into a smaller and smaller corner, consequently ignoring mainstream buyer resale values allowing them to plummet to zero, creating illwill in the process. This is a classic example of The Innovator's Dilemma.
 
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DannyTS

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It's "Can you beat the salesman?" not "Can you beat UP the salesman?"
you are probably right, we are a bit intense here. But hard to resist when we are talking about Ferraries, Ivy league schools, sales based on "facts" rather than on emotions, premium products (vs a lot of "garbage" out there) and a ton of unverifiable claims.
 
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bluehende

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Can we even get a link to that Redweek post?
As all good saleman will do he muddies the water with all kinds of numbers that may or may not be anywhere near reality. Argue a minor detail while ignoring the big issues. There are two basic premises he espouses that we do not believe.

1 buying from the developer beats the cost of renting. As he has done you can easily prove that point if you ignore the lost opportunity costs with the upfront cash outlay, assume your asset will beat inflation over 40 yrs, and the cost of ownership rises at inflation. He of course says he has all the data to show those 3 things are true but will not provide it. We know this is not true and get bogged down in details.

2. Why not resale? Even if a timeshare makes sense why not buy at the lower price. Of course he claims the perks given up front are higher than the initial loss in the value of the asset. For this he has to use only 50% reduction and inflate the value of the perks. We all know that rofr would not be 50% of the current retail as he claims. We also know intuitively that there is no way the developer is giving away that much value.

The bottom line is no one believes he is selling a top of the line product for the price of average and is including a ton of incentives that equate to half the price. That unicorn does not exist. If it did he would not have time to argue here. He would be way too busy signing contracts.
 

dayooper

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you are probably right, we are a bit intense here. But hard to resist when we are talking about Ferraries, Ivy league school, sales based on "facts" rather than on emotions, premium products (vs a lot of "garbage" out there) and a ton of unverifiable claims.
Eh, he’s in the right line of profession. His personality, at least his online Tug one screams salesman. Whatever organization he represents, they need to make money. Businesses will gravitate to what makes them the most, especially when investors are involved. I can appreciate his willingness to interact in a place where he might not be welcome to hone his craft. I can spot ‘em from a mile away and he is there as plain as day. His priorities are very different than mine. The world needs salesman and we Tuggers need people to buy from developers so we can enjoy our timeshares at the rates we do.

Ok, now I feel like I need to take a shower.
 

breezez

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Can we even get a link to that Redweek post?
I just searched forum posts on redweek.

There are 189 that include ROFR, there are 9 that include ROFR and 50%

None that I saw showed anyone saying they got ROFR at 50%.

I did see one suggesting resorts may ROFR at 20% and if your real lucky upto 50%
 

magmue

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I bet the OP was president of his HS debate club. Maybe college too. It is probably exhilarating to jump in here and try to dodge all of the flaming arrows of logic and fact that he invited. Pathways said it well a few pages back:
The OP is well aware of where most tuggers come from, and did not come here to change anyone's opinion He is a 'perfectionist' who is utilizing the feedback he gets here to further refine and perfect his pitch to allow him to be even more successful in selling his product.
 

Sapper

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I don't have any control over company policy, so no. I can only demonstrate what we have historically done and explain why this is our best business strategy.
Thank you for responding. This forum is a hot potato, and I appreciate you not missing my question.

With out a guarantee in writing of a buy back at 50% plus 4% per year, it is difficult to believe a core assumption you have made in your figures. This is made even more difficult when you factor the copious quantities of inventory (including high end fractional) where the resale is sub <10% of the purchase price. Some are given away for free. These resales clear ROFR on a regular basis.

How do your calculations fare if the resale price is 5% of the original purchase price?
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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I think we all know now why his superiors are not comfortable with his "style" of selling. A lot of unverifiable numbers and the company may be liable. They would rather prefer him selling based on emotions.
Danny - you may be right / but my guess is that his superiors are mostly uncomfortable -because it is NOT how they did it . (ie) the old school TS salesperson way.

IMO - “a lot of unverifiable numbers “ is also pretty much how Wall Street works .
It is certainly how all those sliced & diced mortgage products worked pre - 2008.
 

DannyTS

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Danny - you may be right / but my guess is that his superiors are mostly uncomfortable -because it is NOT how they did it . (ie) the old school TS salesperson way.
.
This kind of presentation is probably more common with first time buyers. Vistana showed me something similar before i became an owner but not during owners updates. I was recently at a Bluegreen resort and they had a screen in the lobby where one could put his own numbers and see how much he would spend on hotel rooms in the next 20 years. According to the Bluegreen computer, i would spend a quarter of a million dollars. Where do i have to sign?!

So my point is that the developers probably do it all the time but they do not want every sales rep to come with his/her own un-vetted version because it may lead to problems down the road.
 
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davidvel

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or that it is all bs. I think that it was already established that he works for HGVC
Yes.
OP Maxpot46 has stated he is a timeshare sales associate who attended an ivy league school studying economics, and made references to New York.

Either this maxpot46 is a guy named *redacted* that attended Columbia and received his BA in Economics, and works for HGVC, or there is a giant coincidence that there is someone else on the internet that uses the screen name maxpot46 named William that attended Columbia and received his BA in Economics and works for HGVC.

*admin edit - removing some less than relevant details from post
 
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Panina

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Yes.
removed
This makes me uncomfortable. If you figured out who he is, there is no reason to say who it is and put his job in jeopardy. If your wrong you might have put someone else’s job in jeopardy. If someone doesn’t like your opinion is it right that they tell everyone else who you are?
 
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TUGBrian

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there is no reason to post personal details about someone without their permission...they are welcome to provide that information on the forum themselves if the wish.
 

paxsarah

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Agreed. It’s easy enough for anyone else to pull up that information (I know I took a look at his LinkedIn page at the outset of this thread) but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. It’s the peril of using the same username in a variety of places. And I do it, too, but then I’m not trying to talk about my employer’s trade secrets without actually talking about my employer’s trade secrets.
 

Panina

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Agreed. It’s easy enough for anyone else to pull up that information (I know I took a look at his LinkedIn page at the outset of this thread) but it doesn’t have to be posted publicly. It’s the peril of using the same username in a variety of places. And I do it, too, but then I’m not trying to talk about my employer’s trade secrets without actually talking about my employer’s trade secrets.
You just did the same thing, you gave all tuggers an easy path to find out his identity. One thing is to find out for youself another is to share how.
 
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