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Social distancing and shelter in place - working or not?

TravelTime

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Devils advocate: As taxpayers why are we handing $1200 checks to people in rural/low disease areas who are not impacted by corona and whose state and local governments don't see the need to put in place SIP measures? Why are these people getting a free government handout and can delay paying their taxes etc. when they are not significantly affected, still have their jobs and can go about their daily business?
The government is not distributing the money based on need. It is simply based on last year’s income. They are hoping to stimulate the economy. Good luck when no one is working.
 

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The government is not distributing the money based on need. It is simply based on last year’s income. They are hoping to stimulate the economy. Good luck when no one is working.
Therein lies the problem. You can't stimulate any economy by closing businesses.
 

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Devils advocate: As taxpayers why are we handing $1200 checks to people in rural/low disease areas who are not impacted by corona and whose state and local governments don't see the need to put in place SIP measures? Why are these people getting a free government handout and can delay paying their taxes etc. when they are not significantly affected, still have their jobs and can go about their daily business?
Corollary: why do rural residents have to pay the same tax rates as urban residents when they get less service from the various levels of government?

It cuts both ways.
 

bbodb1

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Therein lies the problem. You can't stimulate any economy by closing businesses.
And you can't stimulate the dead either!
 

pedro47

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Social distancing and shelter in place is not working for four (4) old retirees. Today, was our monthly lunch day to have fellowship and relax together at a local restaurant. Instead we did a Zoom luncheon today at home in front of our computers and we all agree at the end, it was ok. But we missed sitting down, eating together and just shooting the bull.

However, we all agreed this is mandatory to survive . We will practice social distancing of six (6) feet apart and shelter in place at home.
 

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bluehende

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Corollary: why do rural residents have to pay the same tax rates as urban residents when they get less service from the various levels of government?

It cuts both ways.
I am not sure your premise is correct. The big expenses of government are defense, SS, and Medicare. Those apply equally to rural and urban. Also the highest rates of poverty that then kick in all the social net are rural areas. A good way, but not the only way, to look at it is the return on tax dollars. This article shows a trend toward urban areas getting screwed but this is a hard calculation.

 

TravelTime

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I am not sure your premise is correct. The big expenses of government are defense, SS, and Medicare. Those apply equally to rural and urban. Also the highest rates of poverty that then kick in all the social net are rural areas. A good way, but not the only way, to look at it is the return on tax dollars. This article shows a trend toward urban areas getting screwed but this is a hard calculation.

I have heard that states like California pay more into the federal government than we get in return.
 

TravelTime

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California is a donor state but it is close.
Do you have any data on net donors vs takers? Last time I saw an article on this, I recall reading that the coastal states tend to pay more in and subsidize the rural states.
 

pymadore

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Maybe they have more cases because they have larger populations?
Most probably it's directly related to the population density. Go home and stay home. Self isolation/quarantine does work.
 

dioxide45

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Now they are talking about a force quarantine of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. The problem is that warning has been given and now all they will have people start to flee.
 

bluehende

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Do you have any data on net donors vs takers? Last time I saw an article on this, I recall reading that the coastal states tend to pay more in and subsidize the rural states.
Did not go into any quality of this data but this I found real quick

 

CPNY

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Now they are talking about a force quarantine of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. The problem is that warning has been given and now all they will have people start to flee.
It’s needs to be done. I’m looking out the window and everyone was out yesterday. It’s terrible. It was a nice day and the world is acting like nothing is happening.
 

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Now they are talking about a force quarantine of New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. The problem is that warning has been given and now all they will have people start to flee.
And it is being thought about. Maybe it will maybe it won’t.
 

geekette

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Devils advocate: As taxpayers why are we handing $1200 checks to people in rural/low disease areas who are not impacted by corona and whose state and local governments don't see the need to put in place SIP measures? Why are these people getting a free government handout and can delay paying their taxes etc. when they are not significantly affected, still have their jobs and can go about their daily business?
Because one shipment of goods from out of town can wipe out the entire town? Because they can come to your town and take infection back with them? Further, nobody knows who is or is not infected. You cannot say for certain that any populace of more than 10 people is safe, unless they are on an island, nothing coming in. For a couple months now. People will be dying alone throughout the country. I think that the grief of someone in a small town is just as real as for someone in a big city.

I am much more alarmed by "handing out" money to corporations. They're fine, it's the people that are screwed. No buildings are being demolished or burned. No planes crashed, ships sank, hotel uninhabitable because of any of this. But people had their livelihoods taken away for the good of the government acting in the interest of public health. I don't have a problem with every single person getting a "sorry you had to stop normal life for the good of us all" payment. Repeatedly. Of the people, by the people, for the people. I want my tax money to save the people first. We'll figure out nonessential commerce later.
 
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dioxide45

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I don't have a problem with every single person getting a "sorry you had to stop normal life for the good of us all" payment. Repeatedly. Of the people, by the people, for the people. I want my tax money to save the people first. We'll figure out nonessential commerce later.
Non essensial commerce employs a lot of people. Sure you can keep handing money out to people, but when does it stop? If there are no companies left to hire them you end up having to pay people indefinitely. If the companies come out healthy on the back side of this, they will be able to reemploy the staff and the employees won't have to live off the government dole forever. The goal with providing stimulus to small and big business is to try to prevent long term high unemployment numbers. Unemployment during the Great Depression was 25%, the goal here is to avoid that. We can't have people living off the government long term, the companies need to survive so we can try to prevent that.
 
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TravelTime

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I was reading that with the extra $600 in unemployment plus the existing state unemployment, that many people will be earning more by not working.
 

dioxide45

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I was reading that with the extra $600 in unemployment plus the existing state unemployment, that many people will be earning more by not working.
It is possible. Though it will vary by state as each state has different maximum benefits and it is also based on a percentage of income. An example for Florida with a maximum benefit of $275 per week. If that person is making less than $875 a week, then they could make more being unemployed than they did while they worked
 

geekette

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Non essensial commerce employs a lot of people. Sure you can keep handing money out to people, but when does it stop? If there are no companies left to hire them you end up having to pay people indefinitely. If the companies come out healthy on the back side of this, they will be able to reemploy to employ the staff and they won't have to live off the government dole forever. The goal with providing stimulus to small and big business is to try to prevent long term high unemployment numbers. Unemployment during the Great Depression was 25%, the goal here is to avoid that. We can't have people living off the government long term, the companies need to survive so we can try to prevent that.
without people, there are no companies. I am good with hazard pay to front lines workers. Call it a war time bonus.

where does corporate welfare end? It is clear to me that Americans don't actually want to give up the lives they had, so why would anyone believe that after this, entire industries never revive? Small biz owners have their choice, and it's a tough ugly one. Which Americans do you think are going to be getting too rich at home to ever leave again? That's ridiculous. Besides, the ones that survive will forever have scarred lungs. I don't know how that is to live with, do not want to find out.

No one asked for this and it isn't fair and most of it won't seem fair. But things were never fair before this, either. A lot of people will die and whoever is left puts the place back into a society again. I don't want people becoming more desperate before we make it to the other side.
 

geekette

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It is possible. Though it will vary by state as each state has different maximum benefits and it is also based on a percentage of income. An example for Florida with a maximum benefit of $275 per week. If that person is making less than $875 a week, then they could make more being unemployed than they did while they worked
Consider it insanity pay. This is not good for anyone's mental health, and that's expensive. So are unexpected hospital bills.
 

dioxide45

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without people, there are no companies. I am good with hazard pay to front lines workers. Call it a war time bonus.

where does corporate welfare end? It is clear to me that Americans don't actually want to give up the lives they had, so why would anyone believe that after this, entire industries never revive? Small biz owners have their choice, and it's a tough ugly one. Which Americans do you think are going to be getting too rich at home to ever leave again? That's ridiculous. Besides, the ones that survive will forever have scarred lungs. I don't know how that is to live with, do not want to find out.

No one asked for this and it isn't fair and most of it won't seem fair. But things were never fair before this, either. A lot of people will die and whoever is left puts the place back into a society again. I don't want people becoming more desperate before we make it to the other side.
But where are the people going? There is less than a 2% mortality rate here and many of those are the elderly who are already likely out of the workforce. I am not sure where you are getting your information regarding everyone who survives having scarred lungs?
 

TravelTime

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It is possible. Though it will vary by state as each state has different maximum benefits and it is also based on a percentage of income. An example for Florida with a maximum benefit of $275 per week. If that person is making less than $875 a week, then they could make more being unemployed than they did while they worked
The problem with this, according to the article I was reading, is that it will incentivize people to be unemployed. The article gave an example of when unemployment benefits were enhanced during the Great Recession. The article said that the unemployment rate did not go down until after the enhanced benefits went away. If you were a low paid employee, you would be thrilled to earn more money by staying home. Plus they are getting the stimulus checks. Many will still default on rent and other bills just because they can. I have heard of many people on my Facebook thread who are already asking for reduced rent or no rent, even though they do not need it yet. On the other hand, many people will be worse off with unemployment. I feel like the government is just throwing money out there and hoping something sticks. I hate that during these crises that people take advantage of each other. It is “me vs them”. They say I need to think about my family and that justifies talking from others, who also have a family.
 
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