So should I give up?

[rickandcindy23]

No one can answer this question but you, Katherine. I would do it, if I didn't own as much as I already own in other systems, and then there are all those WEEKS we own. I am thinking of selling more of my NC weeks, and even some of the Colorado weeks, simply to try your plan. I think it is a good plan.

I just love the trading power I get with some of my weeks, so getting rid of them doesn't really appeal to me right now.

It's rotten that your salesperson didn't make sure you would be 5 star in that purchase, so don't go with that person again. I would make sure I told the next person that you will recommend him/ her, if you get the elite status you desire from the purchase. This should insure your success in gaining the level you want.

We bought our first timeshare when our kids were little, way back in 1981. Crazy to think about now. Back then, there were no Marriotts, Starwoods or Hiltons, but I wish there would have been. We sometimes regret buying back then (we bought 2 weeks at 2 different resorts, 2 developers), but Hatrack (a guy who used to post here regularly and we have now met a few different times) told me that we wouldn't have the knowledge we have now, if we didn't buy those initial weeks. So true. You don't even want to know how much we paid for our first Colorado mountain weeks back then, and then add in the inflation factor......... WHEW! What were we thinking. We were a struggling young family. We have no value to those units now. You can get them close to free today.

The thing with your plan, there is value to it-- an ongoing value. I do agree that Starwood could change at anytime, but they would be crazy to take away the value of 5 star elite, because how would they sell it to others?

I don't know if this has been said yet, but only you know whether you can afford the status. If you have the wherewithal to do it, then go for it. I am assume money isn't tight, if you are going to use your points for lots of travel. Winning the lottery would be nice, though.

I would never have thought that Wyndham would de-value our points, but they sure did. Some people bought resale and the VIP status transferred through resale, then they changed the rules and decided resale didn't quality.

There is a concern with any system that they will suddenly decide that resale doesn't qualify for the status you worked hard to get. That could be the problem you will face at some point.

Just my thoughts

 

[abdibile]

Kath,

After reading thousands of posts written by you it becomes obvious that you really love being Platinum.

I would assume that you can easily afford buying another timeshare directly from Starwood to get to 5 Star.

But why do it exactly now?

You seem to be really fast on the learning curve. When did you first think about timesharing? Less than a year ago I would assume (like I did)

You bought lots of weeks thinking they where great without having experienced too many timeshare resorts/stays.

Why not wait? 5* should be around a year from now....

You could use one of these promotions where you need fewer number of stays to earn platinum for a year, book some 1 day cheap "phantom" stays plus perhaps some real stays to get the platinum card for a year for not too much above $ 1,000.

Then use your StarPoints you already have with this platinum card and see how the experience really is.

If you really want 5* and platinum in a year then of course go for it!

If not, you saved a lot of money.

 

[rocky]

The whole 5 star thing provides X,Y, and Z benefits until Starwood changes it without notice again. Hellooooo. Getting to 5 Star now and related program benefits means zip for the future. Seriously. Spend money chasing that rainbow at your peril..... wouldn't it be cheaper to pay for the upgraded hotel rooms as you take your trips.... rather than roll the dice on five star and then have no guarantee when you get to a hotel your Platinum status will mean anything?

Seriously. Stacking eggs in this basket 20K at a time makes no sense. Starwood has no loyalty to you or its Elite members. The program is what it is until they randomly change it (again) or dismantle it entirely.

If you want flexibility when you travel, just get on Travelocity and book trips as you decide to take them. It's that easy.

 

[stevens397]

Rocky-

You make a lot of good points but it's not as easy as you say. I have almost never seen suites on any of those travel sites - they go for the cheapest room with the worst view in order to compete.

This is a different conversation - timeshare people tend to LOVE suites - yes, we're spoiled. The issue, as I alluded to in my posting above, is that you have to be okay with checking in and NOT getting a suite! If the time comes when that becomes too upsetting, you merely end up reserving the suite for more points, at which point, who needs 5*? Having the large number of timeshares that Kathy has, she can get hundreds of thousands of points per year and still make it work - no right or wrong here, just whatever works for her. And no one can call her an uneducated consumer!

Of course, we've all learned that all that can change tomorrow.

 

[pointsjunkie]

with the units kath has in the system right now, she won't be getting that many starpoints if she wants to convert to starpoints. to get the mega amount she wants to use the hotels, she need to get to the 5* level.her WMH,PGA,and falls
are not in the system.

 

[myip]

And because only Starwood knows about these little "rules" since they are written nowhere and communicated to no one (not even my sales rep), I have no recourse. As a matter of fact, I would not even know if they just made up that rule about 10 minutes ago -- there is no way to check. Even with proof that their website didn't update the 5* requirements until a week after their supposed rule change, they say no.

This rule exists - I was told previously that I can't get phatom points with upgrade.

The question is: should I throw in the towel and walk away or should I spend another $20,000 to get me to 5*? I am officially only 3* right now with 2 Fountains units and a platinum SDO in the SVN system. I have lots of resales that I could hang on to and use II, etc. but they would not give me 5* benefits or hotel points.

I am confused... How can it only cause you another 20K to get to 5 stars.

-- SDO - 148100 + 2 fountains 152000 = 300100

Why is WMH,PGA,and falls are not in the svn system? Did you requalify the units?

If you decide not to continue to 5*, sell off the WMH, PGA, and Falls.... (perhaps hold on the Falls units and wait for grandfather it in when it join SVN) At least you are 4 * and get extra 10% conversion to starpoints.

 

[tlpnet]

with the units kath has in the system right now, she won't be getting that many starpoints if she wants to convert to starpoints. to get the mega amount she wants to use the hotels, she need to get to the 5* level.her WMH,PGA,and falls
are not in the system.

First, Kath, I completely feel your pain, and I'm upset that Starwood wouldn't take care of you. However, you started on this journey with a plan to get to 5* because that was part of your vacation/timeshare plan so I think you have to get there. Out of curiousity, I remember you saying that you were going to the St. Regis Monarch last month - did you get upgraded with SPG Gold, and do you think being Platinum would have given you a better experience? I remember others here reporting suite upgrades there with Platinum.

Regarding SP conversion, the lower priced Vistana units (Kath's Falls unit(s) probably available 2010 if upgraded/retroed) are not so bad. With upgrading/retroing, you can get two of this units (152,000 SO's) for less than a platinum (148,100 SO's) elsewhere and the conversion would be 88,000 SP's (plus 5* 10% bonus) instead of 72,000 elsewhere (except WPORV). The sum of the two MF's are very slightly higher than the lowest MF resorts, and much lower than some of the other resorts. PGA's SP conversion is horrible.

-tim

 

[tomandrobin]

Katherine

What to do, what to do?

There are so many factors to consider.

The first and most obvious is the extra $20,000. Considering that you only spent $50k initially, another $20k is still a bargain to obtain 5* status. You could forgo the timeshare purchase and book rooms (like Nodge) every year to obtain platinum yearly. But over time you will still spend the same or more. Either way, you will have extra hotel rooms (15-30 days) to use or an extra week or two to use.

We all know that being 3* really doesn't mean anything, but 5* does open more doors and gives the best perks. But again, are those perks worth the extra money to you.

We are in our lower 40's and have a lot of traveling/vacationing planned in our future. Before timeshares we were spending about $10k a year just for hotel rooms, and that was traveling even less then we do now. Even with spending $10k a year, we still were not traveling to places like Atantis, Hawaii and St John (which we are doing in a 10 month period this year!).

We now own more then we can use. We rent out our excess weeks/points to cover our MF's. But as of right now, we have no regrets. We bought some timeshares the un-TUG way, but almost of us has done that on this board.

We met a guy last week at WKORV. He owns two units at WKORV and is happy as can be. He doesn't know about Tug. (As they say, ignorance is bliss). He vacations twice a year to Maui and takes his kids/families/friends (in thier 20's) with him. He was happy with his purchase and I didn't want to ruin perception of his ownership with the three R's.

You and your husband already seemed to be tuned into the Starwood program. So it really is a personal choice. You own DVC and there are many, many people here that will tell you how foolish to own Disney also. But DVC fits your family needs and vacation travels.

We have said many times that we weren't not going to become 5*. But after our last trip to Harborside, things changed for us. We bought a resale 3 bedroom unit at HRA. With the two WSJ units and the two WKV units we had previously owned, we realized that we had enough starpoints for 4* and almost enough for 5*. But only one purchase was a developer unit. Since we were so close to 5* without trying, we decided to jump to 5*. We had to spend an extra $30k to get there, but we are happy with the units we bought and upgraded to reach that level. We now have 620,250 staroptions and five great weeks to vacation and trade with.

Good Luck with your decision!

Tom

 

[nodge]

Hi Katherine!

Tough choice.

Assuming you go for it (and SVO doesn’t raise the standard again and/or completely eliminate the benefit while I’m writing this) there may be at least one more option to consider:

If you can sell your current non-SVN SVO resales for what you paid for ‘em, is it mathematically possible to meet the new StarOption 5 Star requirement under your old planned developer purchase terms and schedule just by substituting in higher StarOption SVN-requalifiable resale properties? If so, that new money may be more efficiently spent on buying higher StarOption value SVN-requalifiable resales to requal.

Of course, I would also get the rest of your developer purchase/upgrade/requal plan IN WRITING before doing ANYTHING more with SVO!!!!! You should also probably bring a cross, some garlic, and maybe a mirror or two when talking to SVO management, and no matter how hard they try, don’t agree to any after dark meetings with ‘em at that creepy, old, castle down the road that is only accessible by horse drawn carriage. Oh wait. .. wrong monster. Whatever you do, and no matter what SVO says or tries to sell you, let ‘em know right away that your eternal soul is off the bargaining table. Period.

Be careful!

-nodge (local villager)

 

[Sir Newf]

Hi Kath-
I know you are very intelligent, and sometimes we just need others' ideas to help us think things through. Here's a technic that works when I'm 'stuck'..
Make a couple lists: 1st list of the emotional reasons you want to be 5*;
2nd list the 'operational' reasons, ie: how you will use and benefit from being 5*; and 3rd list the financial pros and cons of 5*.
When you look at it from at least these 3 different aspects, your answer will jump out for you....good luck in whatever you decide...

 

[Troopers]

Sorry to hear about that...that stinks! Lots of great advice here.

My 2 cents if you do decide to go for it, is buy a place where you want to go. If you ever decide to sell for whatever reasons, this purchase along with your other developer purchases may be the last to sell. You'll want to sell the 3rd party purchases first.

 

[Scott & Laura]

Don't give up

Hello Kath;

I was disenfranchised by Starwood.
My wife has a way of bringing things into proper perspective.
There is a benefit, I will pass on my wifes advise..
The goal is to vacation regularily and comfortably.

We have had huge problems with Starwood, but my wife has counseled me on looking beyond those issues. I was a workaholic and never vacationed. Now it seems all I do is vacation and the more the Star points the more obligated I feel to use them..Yes Starwood is deficient in treating their customers properly. Those chickens will come home to roost. Check their bottom line..

We were lied to at the purchase of our original units. The salesman stated they were building a PGA golf course across the road. He made other representations that also were untrue. Starwood was gracious enough to inform us that he was no longer an employee.

Fraud covers those statements adequately..

However My wife has told me that we never took vacations before and now we are gone so much everyone asks were are you going next.

We are Platinum members but when my wife calls (as always) books a trip to a hotel etc. Starwood always books us as Gold. Thats a whole other issue.

When we call Starwood Platinum services they have normally good people. Yes their are terrible people so we are learning to hang up and call later.

However we have learned that in order to upgrade just talk to the people at the front desk.

We stayed at a Sheraton a couple of weeks ago and they gave us a suite. Pres. Bill Clinton stayed in the same Hotel and had his global initiative at the same time. Several other hotels have treated us very well. Its really a credit to the hotel staff and not to Starwood.

I would suggest looking at the future for your kids, quality time and it forces you to see the world.

Otherwise you can get to be like me and be disgusted with the poor treatment by Starwood.


Cheer up things could be worse - so sure enough you cheered up and they did get worse.
The hotel people treated us extremely well, despite all the Hulla-Balloo.

 

[DavidnRobin]

times two...

 

[LisaRex]

If it were me, the biggest drawbacks would be:

a) SVO's treatment of you.

b) This disclaimer: "8. Except as specifically provided in these Terms and Conditions, all SVN Rules apply to SVN Elite Members. SVN Elite, including eligibility criteria and each feature and benefit of SVN Elite, are subject to additions, modifications and/or termination at any time. While it is anticipated that the SVN Operator will continue to operate SVN Elite, any decisions to purchase a VOI or Week should be based primarily on the use of the VOI or Week, and not the continued availability of SVN Elite and its benefits."

c) If you are no longer getting a good bang for your buck, divesting yourself of timeshares, and their annual MFs, won't be easy unless you're willing to lose money. There are literally thousands of timeshares on the market at any given time.

d) The hit-and-miss on upgrades being reported by current Platinum members. The lack of certainty of what you're going to get before you arrive.

e) Starwood is handing out gold status like candy and is making Platinum membership easier by offering double stay credits. So you'll be competing against more people for the same great benefits. And there's always calls (paranoia?) on FT from the folks who earn Platinum status the hard way to introduce a level above Platinum.

f) The SO:SP conversion will never be more favorable than today. In fact, it WILL get worse. As MFs rise, the return on your investment will go down even if Starwood never adjusts their award chart like they did in '06.

g) The rental rates that folks are able to command are dropping, in part because you're competing against Starwood itself. They are offering really sweet deals to the public and SPG members. hvan was able to rent a 2bdrm villa at WKORV during high season for $2500. Wow!

h) SVO's treatment of you.

 

[SDKath]

Thanks for all of the really, really thoughtful comments! I am so touched by all of the thought everyone has put into these replies!!! Of course I am not any closer to a decision now than I was a week ago. Lisa you summed up ALL of my worries right there in the post above this one. Of course, you forgot to add that the economy is in the toilet and I feel horribly guilty spending $20,000 on a luxury purchase that we just don't "need" today. Even with the money earmarked, it doesn't feel right given the times.

That said, we have always had great vacations with Starwood and in the end, when this process is over, that is all that matters. But yes, having the uncertainty of the Elite benefits is a HUGE drawback since we will be using those points and counting on those upgrades way more than using our TS weeks.

Anyway, thank you everyone for the wonderful comments. I am so impressed by this board and all of the support!

Katherine

 

[Bill4728]

Katherine,

It has been 6 weeks. Have you made any decisions?

 

[SDKath]

Hi Bill,

Are you sure you don't work for Starwood? :hysterical: Because my rep called me today to ask the same thing. Actually, I have not decided but I am pretty sure we will go for it. I am waiting for my last resale week to be recorded in my name and then I will be able to make our last purchase/retro. In the meantime, the 2009 MF bills are piling up on my desk.

I am sooooo close to 5* I can taste it. Yet the $$$$ in this economy is hard to justify.

Ask me again in a month. Katherine

 

[tomandrobin]

And lets not forget up GCV next year.

Looking forward to seeing the new and improved guide to 5* elite!

 

[ValleyGirl]

Depending on what you paid for the "lots of re-sales" !! You could sell some(What in this market??) and use those dollars to retro whats left and thereby reduce your total outlay?

 

[Bill4728]

Hi Bill,

Are you sure you don't work for Starwood? :hysterical: Because my rep called me today to ask the same thing. Actually, I have not decided but I am pretty sure we will go for it. I am waiting for my last resale week to be recorded in my name and then I will be able to make our last purchase/retro. In the meantime, the 2009 MF bills are piling up on my desk.

I am sooooo close to 5* I can taste it. Yet the $$$$ in this economy is hard to justify.

Ask me again in a month. Katherine

Personally, I'm on the side that says it isn't worth it but you've gone soo far that I find it hard to believe that you will not go for it.

IMHO, I'd save the cash but I never would have spent this much already.

Good Luck in what ever you choose.

 

[LisaRex]

Acc to CNBC, a half a MILLION jobs were lost last quarter and there's no end in sight. "Safe" institutions are failing at a remarkable rate. I would only buy another TS if I was 100% assured that my income was recession proof.

IMO Platinum SPG status is great if you're a business traveler and can get it on the company's dime. But to fork out my own cold, hard cash so that I could have the privilege of fighting and pleading for every stinking benefit they claim to bestow upon you? No thanks.

Honestly, from reading FlyerTalk, the people who are the most unhappy with hotels and airlines, by far, are the elite members. And I think it all comes down to expectations. If I, a lowly nobody, receive a complimentary upgrade, I'm surprised and delighted because I don't expect it. Elite members expect one so when they don't receive it, they are disappointed. Elite members who spend thousands of dollars out of their own pocket on mattress runs/phantom flights to achieve or maintain that elusive "elite" level end up feeling even more disappointed, and not a little bit foolish. I'd so hate for you to fall into that trap.

Personally, I would be divesting myself of TSs I owned more than I could personally use if I could get close to what I paid for it. The fact that Starwood is hiring in their collections dept is a sobering reminder that it's going to get uglier in the near future. (If people don't pay their MFs, who ends up absorbing the uncollected revenue?? I have a bad feeling that the remaining owners will.)

There's my 2 cents.

 

[Ken555]

The fact that Starwood is hiring in their collections dept is a sobering reminder that it's going to get uglier in the near future. (If people don't pay their MFs, who ends up absorbing the uncollected revenue?? I have a bad feeling that the remaining owners will.)

That's a sobering thought.

 

[SDKath]

Yeah, but you see, if I don't take a great vacation at least 2-3 times a year, I am not really living right? Just working MAO. Plus, I need a break or else I will go totally insane, get institutionalized, have to pay $1000/night for some poor shrink to rehab me in a cookoo home, and I will be out way more cash than if I had finished my road to 5* (the el cheopo way). At least that is what I am thinking right now. :hysterical:

K

 

[stevens397]

I agree with the poster that while Platinum status can be great, it sucks when you DON'T get the upgrade you're hoping for and, almost, expecting.

We're staying at the Atlantic in Ft Lauderdale during my wife's XMas vacation and we just got an email to let us know that the hotel will be very busy and they apologize in advance if there aren't enough suites to go around!

As to whether it's worth it or not, my issue remains that how many people can truly take enough vacations to fully use their timeshares (at the 5* level!) and still have enough time to take a number of hotel stays, the only place that Platinum status means anything? And if suites are important, couldn't you just use the dollars you didn't spend for the timeshares to upgrade for dollars?

My business partner and I were both Platinum courtesy of AMEX. When it got taken away, I received a Double Stays promotion and was able to earn it back; he didn't get it and was mighty pissed. Well, this summer he's going to Hawaii, spending a week in a Marriott timeshare in Maui and a week at the Sheraton in Kauai. And he happily paid double points for the suite. As long as we're working and generating lots of points, it makes more sense than "hoping" for the upgrade.

That said, if I was almost there, I'd probably bite the bullet and just do it!

 

[Aussiedog]

The fact that Starwood is hiring in their collections dept is a sobering reminder that it's going to get uglier in the near future. (If people don't pay their MFs, who ends up absorbing the uncollected revenue?? I have a bad feeling that the remaining owners will.)
.

In fact, the SDO HOA Board listed this issue in their justification for raising our 2009 MFs - talked about all the foreclosures and how someone has to cover the MFs in the interim, not to mention the admin costs.

Ann