Ski Week at Riverfront

[ValleyGirl]

We are considering a "pre-construction purch of 2BR LO in Plat Plus Ski week for 44,900. March Ski weeks are in very high demand in Vail & Beavercreek.
Our family loves ski-in ski-out resorts.
Is it worth the extra 10% premium for a fixed week?
Since it is impossible to know "school breaks" in the future and since many are choosing to select non-standard Spring Breaks - does it make sense to buy a fixed week vs a "ski season" week ?

I would consider a re-sale but this new property has an express gondola right out the door! I know we are spoiled!!

 

[DeniseM]

Welcome to TUG!

I strongly encourage you to wait for a resale. Even before this resort opens, they will be on the market. Because of the economy, the timeshare market is very depressed now, and you are likely to be able to buy a resale at 50% of developer prices, with just a little bit of patience.

I know of what I speak. I bought preconstruction at the Maui resort for $45K and the very same unit is going for about half that on the resale market now.

I see that you own at WPORV and WLORV - they both already have resales on the market for 50% of the developer cost.

A little patience and research on your part will save you $10K or more.

 

[ValleyGirl]

Denise,
If you buy a re-sale do you also get Starpoints?

 

[DeniseM]

No, but Starpoints are not a good value because the conversion rate is so poor. Starwood hotels increase the number of Starpoints required to reserve a room every year, but owners never get an increase in the number of Starpoints they get for their timeshares, so the value of Starpoints goes down every year. I wouldn't even take that into consideration.

If you are thinking you wouldn't use this resort every year, consider an every other year purchase.

 

[TomH]

Riverfront

If you plan on traveling the same week each year, it may be worth the 10% premium. I almost bought preconstruction in October when they were offering 44,900 + 140,000SPs incentive. I passed on the deal but feel it is a "fair" price for such a nice resort. The maintenance fees are almost 2K. Wow! Resale may be an option down the road but it is a voluntary resort so no StarOptions or Starpoints.

For now I will settle for my Mountain Vista resale that I requalified with an inexpensive SVV upgrade. I do want a Riverfront someday!

Tom

 

[ValleyGirl]

If you plan on traveling the same week each year, it may be worth the 10% premium. I almost bought preconstruction in October when they were offering 44,900 + 140,000SPs incentive. I passed on the deal but feel it is a "fair" price for such a nice resort. The maintenance fees are almost 2K. Wow! Resale may be an option down the road but it is a voluntary resort so no StarOptions or Starpoints.

For now I will settle for my Mountain Vista resale that I requalified with an inexpensive SVV upgrade. I do want a Riverfront someday!

Tom

I appreciate your input. What exactly is a requalified resale?

 

[sml2181]

I was waiting for Riverfront but when it took so long, I decided on (cheap) Sheraton Mountain Vista weeks which I requalified.
Mf's at SMV are somewhere between 1000$ and 1100$ and if I convert to SPG points, I get more points than the weeks at Riverfront would get me. For now, the point for SMV will get me 2 studio units at Riverfront for 5 nights (which is great for us since we spend the first and last nights at airport hotels) - but that is after the additional 10% which 5 Stars receive when they convert to SPG points. I figured that if I really wanted Rf after a few years, I would purchase resale...and I also figured that at least after a while, it would be doable to stay there using options, unless maybe during weeks 51/52, which I now have at SMV.

I did not plan on using my weeks in Avon every year though, but I wanted to buy weeks that I was actually able to use. If I did plan on going to Avon every year, my thoughts would have been a little different - I think.

If I were you and if I wanted to buy there now, I would still purchase a cheap resale week first and have that week requalified. Great deals can be found now.

 

[ValleyGirl]

Thanks for the input - I am still learning! When you requalify a resale - does that mean you now have SO's & SP's

 

[sml2181]

Yes, it does.

You have to have that resale week first though. My SVO sales rep was very helpful - she helped find some of the resale weeks and she fixed the prices of the weeks I bought from her - and she had to wait for a long time before all the resales were in the system. Some resales went quickly but some did take longer.

 

[tomandrobin]

How long do you plan on waiting? Platinum ski week at Riverfront may take a couple years to reach the resale market. Timeshare resales may be good at some of the older resorts where weeks were sold when money was good. Anyone buying Riverfront now is probably not the same "risky" buyer from two years ago. Time will tell....

You already want the resort, with the amenities that is offers. The question is do you want it now, do you want it fixed and do you place a value on having staroptions?

 

[thinze3]

As of last week, you could only purchase a platinum plus (ski) week at Westin Riverfront if you also purchased a silver week for another $20K. This is a huge drawback as that silver week will be worthless in a couple of years and you will still be responsible for the MF's of over $2K for each week.

See this thread:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82598

Here are the prices:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=561&d=1227035516

Terry

 

[tomandrobin]

As of last week, you could only purchase a platinum plus (ski) week at Westin Riverfront if you also purchased a silver week for another $20K. This is a huge drawback as that silver week will be worthless in a couple of years and you will still be responsible for the MF's of over $2K for each week.

Terry

I don't ski and have no interest in a ski resort. However, if I had to buy a silver week, in addition to my platinum week.......There would be no deal.

 

[TomH]

I appreciate your input. What exactly is a requalified resale?

There are many TUG threads on requalifying. You basically have to make a developer purchase and they will made your resale week "requalified" giving you all the perks of a developer purchase. The rules for now are at least 20,000K purchase or an upgrade of a week at a resort still in sales with a margin of 7-10K and a upgraded price of at least 20K.

Tom

 

[DeniseM]

Thanks for the input - I am still learning! When you requalify a resale - does that mean you now have SO's & SP's

It also means that you have to buy TWO more weeks instead of one and one of the weeks must be from the developer. Take your time on this and do some reading here on TUG. Having to buy a 2nd week from the developer will end up costing you more than just buying Riverfront from the developer in the first place. In this economy, I'm not sure it makes sense. What you need to figure out is how you want to use Riverfront. If you don't see yourself using it every year, it makes more sense to buy an every other year week, than to pay the high maintenance fees and convert to Starpoints and Staroptions every other year.

For lots of info. about how Starwood works, see the FAQ at the top of the page and all the info. in the Owner Resources.

 

[SDKath]

As of last week, you could only purchase a platinum plus (ski) week at Westin Riverfront if you also purchased a silver week for another $20K. This is a huge drawback as that silver week will be worthless in a couple of years and you will still be responsible for the MF's of over $2K for each week.

See this thread:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82598

Here are the prices:
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=561&d=1227035516

Terry

They offered me Plat Plus weeks without the SIlver week recently so I am not sure if this is completely true (or if all the sales staff abides by this rediculous law). I ALMOST bought a fixed week! I think it is a great idea with the really tough reservation situation during peak season. The resort is incredibly gorgeous and has amazing amenities. I think the price is much more reasonable than any other Starwood property so I actually think it is worth it to purchase this from the developer.

You can also consider buying every OTHER year for $22,500ish and fixing that! Then you can always buy the other half later on. In either case, if I was buying from Starwood (either EOY or EY), I would firt pick up a cheap unit on ebay for $100-$1000 and requalify it. You will end up with more SOs and SPs and if you find a low maintenance fee unit (like SDO), you will end up with a great deal!

So my usual answer is what everyone else says here -- DON'T buy. BUT for Riverfront and their preconstruction pricing, I would say go for it but consider EOY and retro a cheap unit in at the same time.

Katherine

 

[thinze3]

They offered me Plat Plus weeks without the SIlver week recently so I am not sure if this is completely true (or if all the sales staff abides by this rediculous law). I ALMOST bought a fixed week! I think it is a great idea with the really tough reservation situation during peak season. The resort is incredibly gorgeous and has amazing amenities. I think the price is much more reasonable than any other Starwood property so I actually think it is worth it to purchase this from the developer.

The sales lady even checked to see if a platinum (summer) week could be bought in lieu of a silver week. The the answer was, 'Not at this time.'

You can also consider buying every OTHER year for $22,500 ish and fixing that! Then you can always buy the other half later on. In either case, if I was buying from Starwood (either EOY or EY), I would firt pick up a cheap unit on ebay for $100-$1000 and requalify it. You will end up with more SOs and SPs and if you find a low maintenance fee unit (like SDO), you will end up with a great deal!

Price was $29,200 for EOY. I was told that I could requal a week but that the resale week must be in Starwood's system before contract date of Riverfront.

So my usual answer is what everyone else says here -- DON'T buy. BUT for Riverfront and their preconstruction pricing, I would say go for it but consider EOY and retro a cheap unit in at the same time.

Katherine

Thanks,
Terry

 

[SDKath]

Hmmm, you need a new sales rep. PM me and I can direct you to the head of sales there who can help.

I am looking at the contract they sent me last month for Riverfront. $22,500-->$25,000 EOY if fixed unit (and possibly fixed location too if I remember correctly). No silver week...

Katherine

 

[nodge]

In the olden, glory days of SVO (like maybe 6 months ago or so) only existing SVO owners could buy an EOY for 50% of the annual ownership price.

Nowadays, it appears that pretty much anyone can get that deal if they just hold to their guns during negotiations. Of course, if a current non-SVO owner first buys a cheap SVO resale to requalify, that person would actually be an “SVO owner” when they subsequently bought that EOY developer unit. So they’d be entitled to the 50% “deal” anyway.

Should SVO actually be enforcing this purchase rule at the Westin Riverside, it would be all the more reason for you to buy a cheap SVO resale FIRST to requalify. It’ll save you $6700 on an EOY developer purchase. (Oops. Just noticed that you are already an SVO owner. Disregard the above. Your salesperson was just a dork. Find a new one.)

Good Luck!

-nodge

OK, OK, I've been thinking about my answer now, and well, I need to digress. . . . .

I think anyone interested in buying a timeshare at developer prices in this economy should be required to get good ol’ Suze Orman's approval first, or at least watch one episode of her show.

She scares the absolute financial “bejesus” out of me. Why just thinking of her makes me want to go make and freeze my lunches for the next week and stock up on store brand canned goods on the next double coupon day.

If your desire to purchase this $50,000 “want, not need” is able to overcome all of that logic and reality Suze dishes out through her sparkling, designer white teeth, then (and only then) go for it . . . . Girlfriend.

-nodge

 

[thinze3]

Especially since THIS 2BR annual at Falcon Point just sold for $1,300.

Terry

 

[ValleyGirl]

Thank You All for your input!

Again to clarify - buying a resale to "requalify" means actually waiting for a ski-week resale at Riverfront? not somewhere else? (through an agent or other means - TUG, CL, Ebay etc ???) then going to SVO and paying some amount to requalify! Also it would seem the best deals will be "bought up" by those on the inside??

It seems that in order for this to work - one wood have to wait a good while (possibly since it just went on sale and the highest demand period) and then still be at the mercy of SVO as to the cost of requalifying. All to end up the same at a Savings of ??unknown amount ??? is this correct???

 

[ValleyGirl]

Also, what exactly is the difference between "voluntary" and "mandatory" in the granting of SO's and SP's vs requalifying a resale??

 

[DeniseM]

Thank You All for your input!

Again to clarify - buying a resale to "requalify" means actually waiting for a ski-week resale at Riverfront? not somewhere else? (through an agent or other means - TUG, CL, Ebay etc ???) then going to SVO and paying some amount to requalify! Also it would seem the best deals will be "bought up" by those on the inside??

It seems that in order for this to work - one wood have to wait a good while (possibly since it just went on sale and the highest demand period) and then still be at the mercy of SVO as to the cost of requalifying. All to end up the same at a Savings of ??unknown amount ??? is this correct???

Not quite. Requalifying means buying a resale week, and then buying a 2nd week (not necessarily the same place) directly from the developer to requalify the first week (make it equivalent to a developer purchase.) So you buy a cheap week, and then buy an expensive week to requalify the first one. (As you can tell I'm not a fan, but lots of Tuggers do this and like it. I'm just too cheap and I can get exactly what I want buying for pennies on the dollar on ebay! )

The terms voluntary and mandatory only apply to resales. All developer purchases or requalified weeks automatically have SP's and SO's.

With resales, voluntary resorts do not have Staroptions and mandatory resorts do have Staroptions. No resales have Starponts. A resale that is requalified, has both.

For lots more info. see the FAQ at the top of the page.

 

[thinze3]

Deleted as someone beat me to it.

 

[nodge]

Thank You All for your input!

Again to clarify - buying a resale to "requalify" means actually waiting for a ski-week resale at Riverfront? not somewhere else? (through an agent or other means - TUG, CL, Ebay etc ???) then going to SVO and paying some amount to requalify! Also it would seem the best deals will be "bought up" by those on the inside??

It seems that in order for this to work - one wood have to wait a good while (possibly since it just went on sale and the highest demand period) and then still be at the mercy of SVO as to the cost of requalifying. All to end up the same at a Savings of ??unknown amount ??? is this correct???

Oh Boy . . . . ..

Before we can offer any more specific advice, we've all got to be reading from the same page here. So, you absolutely MUST read this intro to SVO.

After you have read that into, the following answers will probably make much more sense:

No. Here is what happens in a “re-qual”

Step 1: Do the whole “want vs. need” financial analysis and realistically figure out what you can afford to spend on this wholly unnecessary purchase during the current economic times.

Step 2: Watch at least one episode of the Suze Orman show.

Step 3: If you make it this far, watch another episode of the Suze Orman show just to make sure. Alright, Alright, there’s no talking you out of it. So, you buy any ol' SVO (preferably "voluntary" because they are cheaper than "mandatory") villa resale (meaning NOT from the developer) for dirt cheap. Good candidates are Sheraton Desert Oasis (even if you hate the desert and have a creepy Uncle in Scottsdale or whatever that you’d have to visit if you ever actually went there) or a Sheraton Mountain Vista (even though you have no intention of ever lugging your skis to the gondola from there). The goal (and a fun game for many of us Tuggers) is to spend as little money as possible for a RESALE SVO villa someplace that will have the most StarOptions when you "re-qual" it.

Step 4: NOW go sit at the little round table with an SVO salesperson and tell them that you would so very much like to purchase at the Westin Riverfront. Let them know that you already own a resale purchased SVO villa, and you would like SVO to bring that resale unit into SVN in exchange for you buying your fancypants developer unit at the Westin Riverfront for big bucks. SVO will do this deal in a heartbeat so long as your new developer purchase is at least $20K (and probably will do it for under $20K given the economy).

Step 5: Enjoy your Westin Riverfront villa that you paid big bucks for AND use your StarOptions from your cheapo resale villa to spend another week there, or anyplace else within SVN via an internal StarOption exchange. You can do all of this without ever having to visit your creepy Uncle or lug your skis a few blocks to the Gondola (a/k/a actually staying in your resale purchased villa).

Make sense?

-nodge

Note to DeniseM: The SVO intro needs to be updated to inform folks that the newest phases of VV and WSJ are voluntary, and that SVO eliminated the elite upgrade benefit.

 

[djp]

If it really is true that you have to buy a silver week in order to get a ski week, than this really may be the worst deal ever to be had on a timeshare ever. $4000 a year in MF's for ONE WEEK (I understand it is two weeks, but the silver week is of little value or use). I find this unbelievable that there is even a market for this at all. While the Westin will no doubt be nicer than SMV, is it really going to be almost four times as nice? Is it worth $2900 a week/year to not have to ride a shuttle to the gondola? I guess if you have money to burn, and if you really love to ski, and have to stay at the newest and nicest place then it could make sense for you.