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Ski timeshare weeks vs ski home ownership

Marathoner

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I'm a big ski fan and try to ski as much as I reasonably can out West during winter despite living on the East Coast away from the mountains.

I've spoken to a number of other ski enthusiasts and the math always leads to the same conclusion around ski home ownership. Financially, it doesn't make sense to own a second home for skiing vs simply renting. Assuming you have a full time job and the ski home is not within driving distance, you'll be lucky to use your ski home 3 or 4 weeks during the winter; you likely won't use it during the mud seasons and maybe you can get another couple weeks at the mountain home during the summer. Moreover, renting out your ski home will not cover the full annual cost of the mortgage and home maintenance, especially factoring in the cost of a management company that many hire to manage the rental process.

Instead of renting, I've purchased 16 weeks of timeshares so that, when I eventually retire in 10-15 years, I can ski all winter long while lodging in my ski-in/out timeshares. I currently own across multiple timeshare systems - Marriott, Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, and independent HOAs - so that I can experience and then improve my timeshare weeks ownership to suit my ski lodging preferences. Some of the weeks I own are fixed weeks 51/52/7 so that I don't have to worry about competing with other floating week owners for booking holiday week reservations. For my ski weeks that I don't use myself, I rent them out on Redweek, which covers my MFs and a bit more.

Due to COVID, I've been working from home since last March. This past fall, I decided that I would work through the winter at my ski timeshares for 4 months and try experiencing my retirement ski lodging plans 10 years earlier than I had planned. I originally purchased most of my winter timeshares in Park City (e.g. Marriott Summit Watch & Mountainside) but over the past several years, I've not been crazy about the ski terrain at PCMR so I used II to lock off my weeks and trade through II this winter, primarily to Breckenridge and Vail.

I know that there are II detractors out there, but I'm a fan. I agree that its not always easy to get what you want through II but its a reliable marketplace for trading timeshare weeks and it works. About half my exchanges were within flexchange and about half before. I was able to string together all my weeks Sat-Sat so that I didn't need to pay cash to book nights between checking out one week and checking in to the next week. The resorts that I stayed in were all ski-in/ski-out, with the exception of the month that I stayed at Marriott Evergreen and Douglas where it takes a 10 minute to shuttle ride to get to Vail. I purchased e-plus on all my initial exchanges so that I could upsize my units or to change resorts so that I could minimize moving rooms and buildings.

Everything worked out great. But there were a couple of improvement items to my winter living that I identified. First, I wasn't crazy about the need to take a shuttle to get to the mountain while staying at Marriott Evergreen and Douglas. While not a hardship, I'm seeking easy convenience and even a little bit of luxury. To rectify this, I am working on enrolling my resale weeks by purchasing DC points so that I can book at the Ritz at Vail Village. Second, even though I liked all the resorts that I exchanged into, the longest consecutive stay in a single room that I could arrange was only 2 weeks. While it was only a 5 to 10 minute walk or uber ride to the next villa that I was staying in, I'd rather avoid the need to switch rooms if I can. With DC points that I'm purchasing to enroll my resale weeks, I figure that I'll be able to string together II exchanges with DC point reservations so that I can get more consecutive weeks in a single room than I was able to manage via II alone.

I had a great winter experience and my ski timeshare ownership worked almost like I had planned. I'll continue to optimize my ski weeks ownership by buying and selling more weeks. With the 4 months of skiing this winter, my physical fitness is better today than its been for 6 years. I've lost weight, I'm healthier, and I'm more pain free in my knees and back due to my increased strength from all the physical activity. Its truly been a fantastic experience.

The ski-in/out convenience of the timeshare villas that I stayed in was great as well. Purchasing all my timeshare weeks was not insignificant in terms of cost but a comparable ski condo would have been well over a million dollars and I have far more flexibility with my timeshares due to II. So this winter has only reinforced that I'm on the right track with my timeshare ownership and my eventual retirement plans.
 
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travelhacker

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I'm a big ski fan and try to ski as much as I reasonably can out West during winter despite living on the East Coast away from the mountains.

I've spoken to a number of other ski enthusiasts and the math always leads to the same conclusion around ski home ownership. Financially, it doesn't make sense to own a second home for skiing vs simply renting. Assuming you have a full time job and the ski home is not within driving distance, you'll be lucky to use your ski home 3 or 4 weeks during the winter; you likely won't use it during the mud seasons and maybe you can get another couple weeks at the mountain home during the summer. Moreover, renting out your ski home will not cover the full annual cost of the mortgage and home maintenance, especially factoring in the cost of a management company that many hire to manage the rental process.

Instead of renting, I've purchased 16 weeks of timeshares so that, when I eventually retire in 10-15 years, I can ski all winter long while lodging in my ski-in/out timeshares. I currently own across multiple timeshare systems - Marriott, Hyatt, Westin, Marriott, and independent HOAs - so that I can experience and then improve my timeshare weeks ownership to suit my ski lodging preferences. Some of the weeks I own are fixed weeks 51/52/7 so that I don't have to worry about competing with other floating week owners for booking holiday week reservations. For my ski weeks that I don't use myself, I rent them out on Redweek, which covers my MFs and a bit more.

Due to COVID, I've been working from home since last March. This past fall, I decided that I would work through the winter at my ski timeshares for 4 months and try experiencing my retirement ski lodging plans 10 years earlier than I had planned. I originally purchased most of my winter timeshares in Park City (e.g. Marriott Summit Watch & Mountainside) but over the past several years, I've not been crazy about the ski terrain at PCMR so I used II to lock off my weeks and trade through II this winter, primarily to Breckenridge and Vail.

I know that there are II detractors out there, but I'm a fan. I agree that its not always easy to get what you want through II but its a reliable marketplace for trading timeshare weeks and it works. About half my exchanges were within flexchange and about half before. I was able to string together all my weeks Sat-Sat so that I didn't need to pay cash to book nights between checking out one week and checking in to the next week. The resorts that I stayed in were all ski-in/ski-out, with the exception of the month that I stayed at Marriott Evergreen and Douglas where it takes a 10 minute to shuttle ride to get to Vail. I purchased e-plus on all my initial exchanges so that I could upsize my units or to change resorts so that I could minimize moving rooms and buildings.

Everything worked out great. But there were a couple of improvement items to my winter living that I identified. First, I wasn't crazy about the need to take a shuttle to get to the mountain while staying at Marriott Evergreen and Douglas. While not a hardship, I'm seeking easy convenience and even a little bit of luxury. To rectify this, I am working on enrolling my resale weeks by purchasing DC points so that I can book at the Ritz at Vail Village. Second, even though I liked all the resorts that I exchanged into, the longest consecutive stay in a single room that I could arrange was only 2 weeks. While it was only a 5 to 10 minute walk or uber ride to the next villa that I was staying in, I'd rather avoid the need to switch rooms if I can. With DC points that I'm purchasing to enroll my resale weeks, I figure that I'll be able to string together II exchanges with DC point reservations so that I can get more consecutive weeks in a single room than I was able to manage via II alone.

I had a great winter experience and my ski timeshare ownership worked almost like I had planned. I'll continue to optimize my ski weeks ownership by buying and selling more weeks. With the 4 months of skiing this winter, my physical fitness is better today than its been for 6 years. I've lost weight, I'm healthier, and I'm more pain free in my knees and back due to my increased strength from all the physical activity. Its truly been a fantastic experience.

The ski-in/out convenience of the timeshare villas that I stayed in was great as well. Purchasing all my timeshare weeks was not insignificant in terms of cost but a comparable ski condo would have been well over a million dollars and I have far more flexibility with my timeshares due to II. So this winter has only reinforced that I'm on the right track with my timeshare ownership and my eventual retirement plans.
This is a great write-up. Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm no MVC expert, but I would imagine you would need to get to the top level (Chairman) to be able to get peak season weeks at the Ritz Carlton in Vail and the number of points required is pretty hefty.
 

TravelTime

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I agree having timeshare weeks is a lot less expensive and more flexible than owning a second home. The main reasons to have a second home are 1) you love a particular destination and want to return again and again, 2) you like being able to store your own things in your home, 3) you want a certain quality of home and you can’t get that through renting, and 4) you have the disposable income to buy the second home and pay the carrying costs.

A couple of things regarding timeshares:

- You experienced stringing your timeshares during Covid. It has been much easier to book what one wants during Covid since fewer people were traveling. This may not continue in the future.

- The Ritz Carlton is not that easy to book especially for more than a few days and during prime seasons. You might be disappointed enrolling your week for this resort. I’d recommend having more reasons than skiing at Vail for enrolling.
 

Marathoner

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I agree having timeshare weeks is a lot less expensive and more flexible than owning a second home. The main reasons to have a second home are 1) you love a particular destination and want to return again and again, 2) you like being able to store your own things in your home, 3) you want a certain quality of home and you can’t get that through renting, and 4) you have the disposable income to buy the second home and pay the carrying costs.

A couple of things regarding timeshares:
- You experienced stringing your timeshares during Covid. It has been much easier to book what one wants during Covid since fewer people were traveling. This may not continue in the future.
- The Ritz Carlton is not that easy to book especially for more than a few days and during prime seasons. You might be disappointed enrolling your week for this resort. I’d recommend having more reasons than skiing at Vail for enrolling.

I agree with both of your points. I do think trading in II this past winter was probably easier due to COVID. Not overly worried about this. I own weeks in prime ski destinations like Park City. It was because I wanted variety this winter that I did so many II exchanges. I'm sure I would have enjoyed skiing in the mountains that I own at as well.

Yes, booking long stays at the Ritz is something that excites me. But there are more mundane reasons that I am enrolling my weeks. An example is the ability to convert enrolled weeks to DC points and then bank them for future years usage. I'm very fortunate that I was able to use all my weeks for skiing because rental activity for ski weeks was way down on Redweek this winter. If I couldn't use or rent my weeks this year due to COVID, I would have had to deposit dozens of weeks into II and who knows if I could have used them all before the weeks expired!
 

TravelTime

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I agree with both of your points. I do think trading in II this past winter was probably easier due to COVID. Not overly worried about this. I own weeks in prime ski destinations like Park City. It was because I wanted variety this winter that I did so many II exchanges. I'm sure I would have enjoyed skiing in the mountains that I own at as well.

Yes, booking long stays at the Ritz is something that excites me. But there are more mundane reasons that I am enrolling my weeks. An example is the ability to convert enrolled weeks to DB points and then bank them for future years usage. I'm very fortunate that I was able to use all my weeks for skiing because rental activity for ski weeks was way down on Redweek this winter. If I couldn't use or rent my weeks this year due to COVID, I would have had to deposit dozens of weeks into II and who knows if I could have used them all before the weeks expired!

What are DB points?
 

TravelTime

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Sorry, I meant DC points. Corrected my previous post.

Oh okay. I should have figured that one out. LOL

The banking feature is great.
 

Carlsbadguy

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One thing that is not taken into account of timeshares vs ski homes is the appreciation potential. I started with a cheap timeshare at Lift Lodge in Park City then Marriott Summit Watch. We enjoyed spending time in Park City so decided to buy a condo during one of the real estate slumps in 2003 and that property has almost tripled in value. We tended to spend 2 full weeks and a couple of long weekends during the ski season and a couple of weeks in August. July tends to rent very well in Park City. It took about 3 years to have a positive cash flow. Over time I turned that property into a full-time rental and bought a condo across the parking lot from the Park City resort. I use it during times when it is not rented as monthly HOA dues are high and just about break-even, using it for 1 or 2 weeks during the winter and a couple of weeks/long weekends in the summer/fall. With recent increases in prices not sure it would pencil out anymore. Have been considering selling one of the places.
 

rcv82

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I'm a big ski fan and try to ski as much as I reasonably can out West during winter despite living on the East Coast away from the mountains.

I've spoken to a number of other ski enthusiasts and the math always leads to the same conclusion around ski home ownership. Financially, it doesn't make sense to own a second home for skiing vs simply renting. Assuming you have a full time job and the ski home is not within driving distance, you'll be lucky to use your ski home 3 or 4 weeks during the winter; you likely won't use it during the mud seasons and maybe you can get another couple weeks at the mountain home during the summer. Moreover, renting out your ski home will not cover the full annual cost of the mortgage and home maintenance, especially factoring in the cost of a management company that many hire to manage the rental process.

Instead of renting, I've purchased 16 weeks of timeshares so that, when I eventually retire in 10-15 years, I can ski all winter long while lodging in my ski-in/out timeshares.

I do something similar in that instead of having a second home, I have a similar number of weeks. I made 6 different ski trips this year (and canceled two in January due to low snow). Saturday I’m headed to Maui for two weeks for mid season. Then have several summer trips to the mountains, fall trips to SW Colorado, North Carolina (fall colors), and then Palm Springs. While I recognize I could have made a serious dent in a second home that can appreciate, I haven’t figured out some place I would want to stay that much time (My “main” home is outside Denver which for me is a good home base). I like going to a variety of places. While the downside is I can’t leave things between trips, the plus side is I don’t have any ownership maintenance/renter hassles. I do rent extra weeks out on Redweek.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JohnPaul

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Agree that appreciation is not an aspect of TS ownership. We are retired and spend 8 to 10 months of the year on the road - mostly in timeshares.

We own in numerous timeshare systems so have 100’s of resorts to choose from. I love planning our travel so getting what I want isn’t usually a problem.

Things we like vs second home ownership:

Variety.
No managing rentals.
No ownership hassles - others shovel the snow and fix anything broken.
Everything is beautiful when we arrive and someone cleans when we leave.

However, while this works for us everyone has to figure out what’s best for them.
 

rickandcindy23

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Entering ongoing searches way ahead is a great way to catch the good deposits, and people are depositing even prime ski weeks into II regularly. If you don't mind the ridiculous parking fees of the Grand resorts in Breck, those are really nice, every one of them, and if you can take a 1 bedroom or studio, which still have great kitchenettes, it's very easy to grab those. Even Gold Point is gorgeous. It had a huge upgrade a few years ago. The 3 bedroom are huge. I already have two weeks for next year's ski season.
 

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Marathoner,

Excellent retirement plan. If you owned a place in Park City would you really want to drive up Little Cottonwood to the "Bird" on a powday? I doubt it. If you owned a place in Breck or Vail how often would you want to drive over Vail Pass to ski the other? Probably not often. Before I gave up the "working stiff life" I went through the same thoughts, I decided I would rather spend five weeks in Utah and five in Colorado skiing 8-10 mountains rather then one. You'll love it, can't wait for next season.
 

CalGalTraveler

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@Marathoner Sounds like a great plan. How do you keep your annual passes low if you are moving around during the season? Do you stick with Epic or Mountain Collective pass resorts? I am astounded by the cost of ski tickets. A 3 day Epic pass costs about the same as our season pass at a smaller Tahoe resort (approx $400/season early bird purchase). On top of that our season pass pre-Covid had trading privileges with Alta and other resorts.

We own a ski vacation rental within driving distance. As you mentioned the timeshare route might be better if we had to fly.

What I like about owning a vacation rental:

Flexibility - we simply block reservations whenever we want to use. no waiting to trade. no 9 month midnight reservations or waiting for OGS. If we want to spend several weeks we can.
Pets - Our pets come with us
Appreciation. Our home is now worth almost 4x what we paid 20 years ago. It almost doubled in the past year alone
Rentals cover our cost and capital upgrades - it's basically free.
We still use timeshares and hotel points to trade for other fly to ski resorts so we are not stuck using the same place. We skied the Swiss Alps in early 2020 (used hotel points). In 2019 we traveled to Alta.
Because we drive we have a car to get around

What we dislike:
cleaning, maintenance, worry

We have a management company who answers calls, attends to renter requests and arranges for cleaning so not a hassle.

With timeshare advanced planning and everything booked aren't you also stuck in a location if the snow is bad? Would hotels offer more flexibility?
 
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Marathoner

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@Marathoner Sounds like a great plan. How do you keep your annual passes low if you are moving around during the season? Do you stick with Epic or Mountain Collective pass resorts? I am astounded by the cost of ski tickets. A 3 day Epic pass costs about the same as our season pass at a smaller Tahoe resort (approx $400/season early bird purchase). On top of that our season pass pre-Covid had trading privileges with Alta and other resorts.

We own a ski vacation rental within driving distance. As you mentioned the timeshare route might be better if we had to fly.

We have a management company who answers calls, attends to renter requests and arranges for cleaning so not a hassle.

With timeshare advanced planning and everything booked aren't you also stuck in a location if the snow is bad? Would hotels offer more flexibility?

Yes, I purchase the Epic pass and Mountain Collective pass together each season.

II flexchange within 60 days usually offers decent alternatives if I want to change ski venues close to the date of check-in.

Owning timeshares, I don't have home ownership worries and headaches but I don't have home price appreciation potential. That said, I don't have to spend as much money as buying a house and so I can use the spare cash to buy equities for the investment gain potential. I think you are very lucky to have rentals cover your home ownership after management company fees. I think the fact that you've owned for 20 years is a major factor. Also, Tahoe has a lot more rental potential in the summers than Park City or Vail. I expect that you would have a tougher time getting the same returns on your vacation home if you purchased at today's prices.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I think the fact that you've owned for 20 years is a major factor. Also, Tahoe has a lot more rental potential in the summers than Park City or Vail. I expect that you would have a tougher time getting the same returns on your vacation home if you purchased at today's prices.

How much does both Epic and Mtn Collective cost altogether?

I agree that if we had to buy today, it would be hard to cover costs. I am blown away that zillow now prices small 1400 sq foot cabins in our Tahoe neighborhood at over a million - crazy.

And you are correct, except for Christmas, summer rentals are where we make most of our rental revenue. Jan to Apr are primarily weekends and dont rent as high as July. We could block after new years and live/ ski until May and still cover costs with rentals in summer and Xmas.
 

Marathoner

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How much does both Epic and Mtn Collective cost altogether?

I agree that if we had to buy today, it would be hard to cover costs. I am blown away that zillow now prices small 1400 sq foot cabins in our Tahoe neighborhood at over a million - crazy.

And you are correct, except for Christmas, summer rentals are where we make most of our rental revenue. Jan to Apr are primarily weekends and dont rent as high as July. We could block after new years and live/ ski until May and still cover costs with rentals in summer and Xmas.

In the coming winter 2021-22 season, the Epic pass is $783 and the Mountain Collective is $499.

Sounds like we should all have bought in Lake Tahoe over the past 2 decades!
 

sandkastle4966

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We also used timeshare (mostly trading a primo tiger trader that got 2 weeks for 1) plus Wyndham points to ski 10-12 weeks a season. (added in 2 primo breck weeks over presidents day).

We identified the area that we want to invest in ...and bought Condo #1, keeping all the Timeshares. the rental was great - we never stayed there til this year - used the TS instead

While we enjoy different ski resorts (we do Epic + Ikon), I am TIRED of packing up every week and moving. This year we did a minimum of 2 weeks / resort in combination with our ski condo - time to start enjoying it ourselves. Moved 5 times in 12 weeks. Next year I will move 3 times. (Vail to steamboat to breck and back to Vail). That is now my maximum moving, and starting to divest of my traders.......

We found the TS a great way to decide WHERE we want to be in the retirement phase.

thank you Marathoner - did not see that Epic was 20% off ! I just order every May.... jumping on it now
 

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I know some people love Vail and Beaver Creek, but because of the shuttle issue you mentioned, I like the convenience of Grand Lodge at Peak 7 at Breck. You can keep your skis in a ski locker that is a couple hundred yards from the lift and only 30 yards from the snow. Grand Colorado at Peak 8 is right next door, so equally convenient, but much more expensive with fewer resales to choose from. If you're not actually staying at the resort, you can get free "day use" as an owner, park in the underground, heated parking garage and walk up a flight of stairs and be 100 yards from the lift. Might consider it if you can find a good price on a resale during ski season.
 

GT75

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I love the discussion and thoughts on skiing using a TS vs. owning a condo. I started skiing when I was in high school many and too many years ago. It was hard for us raising a family to ski financially we were raising kids in the house being that we lived in the south. But once all of the kids were out of the house and off the payroll, I picked up some floating ski weeks via HGVC in Breckenridge and Park City. I now usually go skiing four about 4 weeks per year. The floating ski weeks have really worked out well for me because now I am taking two grand kids with me plus other relatives. With the floating weeks, I can adjust the booking depending upon when the grand kids are out of school.

From a financial point of view, it would probably be better to own a condo at a nice ski resort such as Breckenridge. But honestly, I don't need the responsibilities/burden nor really do I need to income from that property. In this point in our lives, we just want to enjoy them to the fullest. I really also enjoy "working" the TS system. I view it more of a hobby so to me that isn't a burden.

For skiing, I enjoy Breckenridge much more than Park City. A big part of it is because the location of HGVC Breckenridge in near both the skiing and the town. I enjoy the slopes more because of the higher elevation which to be means longer season. HGVC Park City is located on the Canyons Side. I enjoy skiing Park City-Canyons a lot during February but it is too far from the town of Park City, IMO.
 
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