Should I have seen this coming?

[MoPops]

Back in September I was getting advice on trying to get to VIP Silver. We owned approx 70,000 points at Pagosa Springs in CO. I contacted telesales at Wyndham in Orlando, and spoke with a sales rep Camilla Cornado. I told her what I wanted to do, which was buy a qualified TS and enroll it as a PIC and add enough points to get to silver. I was told to get a 3BR in a quality location.
Camilla and I talked back and forth as I looked for a unit on TS Nation. She gave me verbal approval to get a unit in Massanutten which would qualify as a PIC. She told me she would enroll it when the purchase came through and combine it with some CWA points she would sell me then. This was in September and she told me I had to purchase then to get the guaranteed PIC qualification and the sales price for the CWA points, and get the guarantee for VIP Silver for life. I was just happy getting 200,000+ points for my PIC. Camilla the sales rep said, “Now once the property is transferred to your name we can enroll it with the PIC PLUS program, your total points once it’s all complete will be 492,000 which brings you above the 400,000 Silver mark and would make you a permanent Silver owner.” That last sentence is cut and pasted from an email she sent me.
She answered a few more emails after I bought the CWA points from her. I asked about going for gold, but declined. Once I declined to go for gold she never answered any emails or repeated phone messages. Not once.
I called customer service and explained to them that my rep Camilla, was supposed to get this TS I bought, enrolled as a PIC. I was told I didn’t have a PIC contract, and there wasn’t a PIC listed. My actual closing on the TS I bought from TS Nation closed after I had bought the CWA points from Camilla.
I filled out a complaint about getting the TS enrolled. I heard from Wyndham customer resolution specialist Andrew Vandeveld. He said he would look into it, and see about getting my TS I had enrolled into RCI as instructed, to become a PIC.
I heard today that they had decided against letting me enroll the TS I bought for a PIC, because I didn’t own the TS when I bought the CWA points. I was never told I had to already own it. I told Camilla exactly what I wanted to do, and how I thought it would happen. She agreed with everything I planned and ok’d the TS I bought for a PIC.
Now I’m stuck! I bought CWA points to get to silver with my PIC. I don’t have a PIC, I have a TS in Massanutten I don’t want. No points for enrolling it into the PIC Program. I was lied to so many times by Camilla and her Manager Jared. Now I’m told it’s been looked into, and that somehow I should have known that if I didn’t already own the TS I wanted to make into a PIC, that it could not happen after the fact.
I don’t know why I thought dealing with telesales would be a more honest experience. I was totally lied to, and now I’m told there’s not anything I can do about it.
Any suggestions? Live and learn? I guess I should have known better. When dealing with any TS sales people, assume they do nothing but lie. Say anything to get my money, I don’t see how these people sleep nights.
Sorry about the rant. I’m just unbelievably ticked off about the whole experience.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[samara64]

That is very normal with timeshare sales people. Unless it is all clearly in writing, I do not sign. Period.

 

[ecwinch]

I would keep pressing, since you have the representation in writing that acknowledges you are purchasing and that they will allow you to enroll your purchase in PIC Plus after it closes.

“Now once the property is transferred to your name we can enroll it with the PIC PLUS program, your total points once it’s all complete will be 492,000 which brings you above the 400,000 Silver mark and would make you a permanent Silver owner.”

If they do not fix the matter, then I would simply make the statement... "I have your email where you tell me that I can enroll my purchase in PIC Plus when it closes. I detrimentally relied on that assurance when I made that purchase, and it is clear that my intent in purchasing additional points was to become a Silver VIP. Do I need to contact a lawyer to get this resolved, or can we avoid that?"

Then I would be sending an email to the office of the CEO. People have gotten results in doing so in the past, but YMMV. His email is Michael.Brown@wyn.com.

 

[b2bailey]

My blood is boiling just reading about this.

 

[Baggi]

Wow.

I don't understand most of what you said but that really worries me.

We are getting approximately 430,000 points from my aunt but she isn't a silver VIP member.

I've been wanting to look into what it would cost me to get to silver VIP status but now I'm scared it'll all just be a pack of lies.

 

[MoPops]

Thanks for the replies. I just completed the letter to Michael Brown. I’ll see if he even responds.
I was told my PIC may not apply this year, because I didn’t have the 9 month lead time they wanted.
I was never told, ever, that I needed to own the PIC before I bought the CWA points. That totally came out of the blue. No warning at all.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

Thanks for the replies. I just completed the letter to Michael Brown. I’ll see if he even responds.
I was told my PIC may not apply this year, because I didn’t have the 9 month lead time they wanted.
I was never told, ever, that I needed to own the PIC before I bought the CWA points. That totally came out of the blue. No warning at all.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

All calls to telesales are recorded. So you have it in writing on your email, and they can review the phone calls that will back up your claims. It is true you have to own the week before you buy. It used to be you could enroll them while you were waiting on the transfer process to complete, but I was later told it wasn’t supposed to be allowed. It was always their policy to not allow enrollment until the transfer was completed, but they were not verifying ownership. Sales was saying it was ok. Some even gave them 60 days to actually find and buy a PIC week and enroll it. They are not doing that anymore. It’s entirely possible she or her manager didn’t know that. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case, because information doesn’t always get relayed to the appropriate departments. She could have been working off the last information she had and was later told that was not the case. I’m not trying to defend any one. I’m just playing devils advocate here, to let you know there is more then one possible explanation for the bad information. Hopefully that’s the case and things can get worked out. Please let us know what happens.

 

[MoPops]

FYI, they’ve already done a complete review, and ruled against us.
They won’t release what the review says, what they reviewed, or any notes on how they came to their decision.
I asked for one indication on how they made he decision and he quoted an email from November, which was “after” we had made our Sept 30th decision to buy. Like we told you two months later what the rules were, you should have known.
Just a horrible situation with lies on top of lies.
I’m not sure how to get out of the whole thing. Right now I never want to see a Wyndham property again. However, we have a reservation (through RCI) to go to Bonnet Creek next week, I may stick my head in the door of the sales office. I may have a huge sign with me telling all prospective buyers NOT TO BUY! Wyndham is nothing but a bunch of lying, unethical, money grabbing, scumbags. But I don’t want to spend any time in police custody.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

I’m so

FYI, they’ve already done a complete review, and ruled against us.
They won’t release what the review says, what they reviewed, or any notes on how they came to their decision.
I asked for one indication on how they made he decision and he quoted an email from November, which was “after” we had made our Sept 30th decision to buy. Like we told you two months later what the rules were, you should have known.
Just a horrible situation with lies on top of lies.
I’m not sure how to get out of the whole thing. Right now I never want to see a Wyndham property again. However, we have a reservation (through RCI) to go to Bonnet Creek next week, I may stick my head in the door of the sales office. I may have a huge sign with me telling all prospective buyers NOT TO BUY! Wyndham is nothing but a bunch of lying, unethical, money grabbing, scumbags. But I don’t want to spend any time in police custody.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im sorry to hear that was the outcome. Was that Michael Browns office that ruled against you or Owner Care?

 

[Rolltydr]

Deleted. Sorry for the mistake.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MoPops]

Im sorry to hear that was the outcome. Was that Michael Browns office that ruled against you or Owner Care?

No. I haven’t heard back from Michael Brown. The reply I’m referring to was from Owner Care.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Richelle]

No. I haven’t heard back from Michael Brown. The reply I’m referring to was from Owner Care.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you don’t hear anything from Michael Browns office by Friday, email again. They can overrule owner care, and have before.

 

[MoPops]

If you don’t hear anything from Michael Browns office by Friday, email again. They can overrule owner care, and have before.

Thank you. I will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jan M.]

Thank you. I will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be willing to negotiate to reach a resolution. Would you be willing to purchase an additional 49k points through telesales if Wyndham would give you a one time dispensation that would allow you to enroll 2 PICs?

 

[raygo123]

Back in September I was getting advice on trying to get to VIP Silver. We owned approx 70,000 points at Pagosa Springs in CO. I contacted telesales at Wyndham in Orlando, and spoke with a sales rep Camilla Cornado. I told her what I wanted to do, which was buy a qualified TS and enroll it as a PIC and add enough points to get to silver. I was told to get a 3BR in a quality location.
Camilla and I talked back and forth as I looked for a unit on TS Nation. She gave me verbal approval to get a unit in Massanutten which would qualify as a PIC. She told me she would enroll it when the purchase came through and combine it with some CWA points she would sell me then. This was in September and she told me I had to purchase then to get the guaranteed PIC qualification and the sales price for the CWA points, and get the guarantee for VIP Silver for life. I was just happy getting 200,000+ points for my PIC. Camilla the sales rep said, “Now once the property is transferred to your name we can enroll it with the PIC PLUS program, your total points once it’s all complete will be 492,000 which brings you above the 400,000 Silver mark and would make you a permanent Silver owner.” That last sentence is cut and pasted from an email she sent me.
She answered a few more emails after I bought the CWA points from her. I asked about going for gold, but declined. Once I declined to go for gold she never answered any emails or repeated phone messages. Not once.
I called customer service and explained to them that my rep Camilla, was supposed to get this TS I bought, enrolled as a PIC. I was told I didn’t have a PIC contract, and there wasn’t a PIC listed. My actual closing on the TS I bought from TS Nation closed after I had bought the CWA points from Camilla.
I filled out a complaint about getting the TS enrolled. I heard from Wyndham customer resolution specialist Andrew Vandeveld. He said he would look into it, and see about getting my TS I had enrolled into RCI as instructed, to become a PIC.
I heard today that they had decided against letting me enroll the TS I bought for a PIC, because I didn’t own the TS when I bought the CWA points. I was never told I had to already own it. I told Camilla exactly what I wanted to do, and how I thought it would happen. She agreed with everything I planned and ok’d the TS I bought for a PIC.
Now I’m stuck! I bought CWA points to get to silver with my PIC. I don’t have a PIC, I have a TS in Massanutten I don’t want. No points for enrolling it into the PIC Program. I was lied to so many times by Camilla and her Manager Jared. Now I’m told it’s been looked into, and that somehow I should have known that if I didn’t already own the TS I wanted to make into a PIC, that it could not happen after the fact.
I don’t know why I thought dealing with telesales would be a more honest experience. I was totally lied to, and now I’m told there’s not anything I can do about it.
Any suggestions? Live and learn? I guess I should have known better. When dealing with any TS sales people, assume they do nothing but lie. Say anything to get my money, I don’t see how these people sleep nights.
Sorry about the rant. I’m just unbelievably ticked off about the whole experience.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Do you have an email stating what she will do? Is register the PIC?

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk

 

[raygo123]

Wow.

I don't understand most of what you said but that really worries me.

We are getting approximately 430,000 points from my aunt but she isn't a silver VIP member.

I've been wanting to look into what it would cost me to get to silver VIP status but now I'm scared it'll all just be a pack of lies.

Transfer from your aunt doesn't qualify

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk

 

[am1]

I purchased a points package through telesales on 2010 and in 2011 it was cancelled . They did not want to accept my pics that were from South Africa. I already had two PICs but this was a different account. I let the pic timeshares default but Wyndham refunded the purchase price. I got to 3 platinum accounts by then (only did a 308k purchase and 2 3 bedroom pics, rest was resale) so was happy with the outcome. Come to think of it Wyndham has been the only buyer of my timeshares. The rest I have defaulted (Mexico and South Africa).

Yes you should try for a refund at start again.

 

[55plus]

The way Wyndham hoodwinked the OP he should just walk away and stop paying. Sorry to the few that think it is wrong to use anti deficiency laws to their advantage. But this OP was totally taken advantage of. I would also suggest trying to have the credit card charges reversed if he can prove it is not mentioned in his purchase agreement.

FYI, they’ve already done a complete review, and ruled against us.
They won’t release what the review says, what they reviewed, or any notes on how they came to their decision.
I asked for one indication on how they made he decision and he quoted an email from November, which was “after” we had made our Sept 30th decision to buy. Like we told you two months later what the rules were, you should have known.
Just a horrible situation with lies on top of lies.
I’m not sure how to get out of the whole thing. Right now I never want to see a Wyndham property again. However, we have a reservation (through RCI) to go to Bonnet Creek next week, I may stick my head in the door of the sales office. I may have a huge sign with me telling all prospective buyers NOT TO BUY! Wyndham is nothing but a bunch of lying, unethical, money grabbing, scumbags. But I don’t want to spend any time in police custody.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Since you are going to be in Orlando anyway stop in at Wyndham unannounced to speak to Brown or his staff.

 

[MoPops]

Be willing to negotiate to reach a resolution. Would you be willing to purchase an additional 49k points through telesales if Wyndham would give you a one time dispensation that would allow you to enroll 2 PICs?

I don’t know right now. I’m so frustrated with being lied to I’m having a very difficult time even thinking about giving Wyndham any more money.

 

[MoPops]

Do you have an email stating what she will do? Is register the PIC?

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk

Yes. Please see my last reply.
Thx


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Rolltydr]

Deleted

 

[MoPops]

I hope so.

I will be amazed if this isn’t worked out. The commitment from Maria/Camilla (the sales rep) is pretty straightforward. Hard to deny this one.

Thx


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Braindead]

Deleted

 

[MoPops]

Deleted..

 

[HitchHiker71]

I hope so.

I will be amazed if this isn’t worked out. The commitment from Maria/Camilla (the sales rep) is pretty straightforward. Hard to deny this one.

Thx


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

This surprises me as well. You pretty much have to have the PIC property already acquired and ready to be contracted when you make the developer points purchase. Perhaps there's some kind of grace period within the initial developer points contract purchase in play that I'm not specifically aware of. When I did this in July 2018 with my two PIC properties - I had to at least have proof of acquisition (not ownership) at the time I went to contract for my developer points and PIC contracts - in other words the PIC contracts were directly attached to the initial developer purchase during the same transaction. My general understanding now is that proof of actual non-Wyndham deed ownership is necessary for PIC Plus as part of the purchase process, but I will say I get mixed messages on these requirements. My best guess here is that the sales rep let the grace period lapse and didn't manage the customer expectation well in the process. In other words - I doubt you were told whatever the grace period was - whether 15 or 30 days or whatever it was. You could employ the "Limited Membership" PIC Plus option and enroll the property on a fee basis instead of tying it to the developer point purchase - but then it's only valid for five years. Keep us posted on what you hear back from Michael Brown's office. If what you're saying here is an accurate assessment of what really happened - this seems like something Wyndham should fix on your behalf as you were acting in good faith with the developer points purchase and are an unhappy customer if Wyndham didn't act in good faith in return.