Sheraton FLEX Lack of Disclosure is a Problem

[DTD1990]

I own two EOY weeks at WLR Plat + and have been really happy with my purchase even at developer prices. The purchase has enabled us to take some great vacations to Cancun, Beaver Creek, Steamboat, NY and New Orleans using SOs and SPG award points.

I would like to purchase another week in the SVN system, but the Sheraton FLEX offering gives me pause. Specifically, I subscribe to the "buy what you would use" timeshare approach. This is why we bought WLR. We like the Cancun beaches and area and it is a short flight from where we live. I would like to buy a plat+ week at the Sheraton Steamboat when the hotel property is converted to timeshares. My issue is that, if these units are put in to the FLEX system how will that effect the ability to get a spring break ski week?

Under the old system, you have a high % chance of getting the week you wanted 12-months out for the season you purchased at your home resort. The FLEX system muddies the waters for this. The prospect of paying $50K + to get a 2 bedroom l/o in the FLEX with no certainty of getting a ski week for Steamboat is a problem. I think this would suppress interest. SVN needs more disclosure for potential customers to better understand the various ownership pools and number of units available connected with the FLEX program.

 

[okwiater]

The Sheraton Flex offering definitely increases demand for prime weeks, because you are no longer competing solely with same-resort, same-season Owners. Instead, you're competing with Owners from multiple resorts who collectively own every season.

In my experience (and I do own 2 Flex contracts), the problem seems to be amplified for the existing Flex resorts because there are a limited number of prime weeks that have been acquired for the program. For instance, July 4 weeks at SBP (Myrtle Beach) in the Flex program were fully booked within days, yet there is still plenty of inventory for deeded SBP Plat season owners.

I think this will be somewhat less problematic for new resorts (e.g. Steamboat), assuming all inventory is added in its entirety to the Flex program instead of via the piecemeal approach Starwood used to build out the Flex program for pre-existing resorts. That's not to say it won't still be somewhat more difficult to reserve than it was with resort- and season-specific deeds, but my guess is that it will likely be the only practical way to get into the new resorts.

All that said, the above implication that new Sheraton resorts will be added to the existing Flex program is purely speculation on my part. However, I think it makes the most sense for the following reasons:

1. The contractual language in the Flex program documents leaves a deliberate opening for an increased number of included resorts, suggesting that it was designed from the beginning to be able to incorporate additional resorts.
2. Adding new desirable resorts to the Flex program allows Starwood to increase the cost of the Flex program as well as sell it more times than they have units at the new resorts, because the new flashy resorts will be partially backed by a pool of deeds for older less desirable resorts.
3. It will be very difficult to sell the current Flex program alongside a separate program that incorporates new and much more desirable resorts.
4. The glossy promotional materials at the Sheraton Flex presentation show a roadmap of timeshare evolution -- from fixed weeks, to floating weeks, to single-resort points systems (WSJ-CV), to multi-resort points systems (Flex). It seems pretty clear that this new model is the one they're committing to. Although I don't entirely rule out the creation of an additional points program alongside Sheraton Flex, I don't think it's likely that they will continue to create lots of additional single-resort points programs like WSJ-CV.

 

[DTD1990]

okwiater,

Are there seasons within the FLEX system? For example, will there be a different amount of SO points needed to book a ski week at Steamboat - assuming it is placed into FLEX?

Also - you cannot bank and borrow with FLEX - correct. I guess that will keep down some of the competition for prime units in a prime season.

 

[okwiater]

Are there seasons within the FLEX system? For example, will there be a different amount of SO points needed to book a ski week at Steamboat - assuming it is placed into FLEX?

Yes, resorts continue to have seasons but ownerships no longer do. You simply buy the number of "HomeOptions" you want and then use them to reserve the stays you want.

Also - you cannot bank and borrow with FLEX - correct. I guess that will keep down some of the competition for prime units in a prime season.

Correct -- you can only bank and borrow StarOptions. HomeOptions have equivalent value to StarOptions, and in fact turn into StarOptions automatically when you use them to book an SVN reservation. But you cannot use StarOptions to make a HomeOptions reservation.

Also, because there is no banking or borrowing of HomeOptions, if you are booking an "expensive" HomeOptions reservation (e.g. a hypothetical future 3-bedroom in Steamboat), then you will only be competing with other owners of enough HomeOptions to make that same reservation. Keep in mind though, that you can book as few or as many days as you like. So even if you may want to book a full week, owners with fewer options may be satisfied with booking a shorter stay. There will still be some competition.

 

[gtm2011]

Does anyone know if the Sheraton Flex options are mandatory or voluntary on the resale market? I am going to assume voluntary, but I haven't heard it discussed yet.

 

[okwiater]

Does anyone know if the Sheraton Flex options are mandatory or voluntary on the resale market? I am going to assume voluntary, but I haven't heard it discussed yet.

Sheraton Flex is a voluntary ownership, so StarOptions and SVN membership do not transfer. However, HomeOptions DO transfer on resale. HomeOptions represent your contractual usage rights.

 

[Wanttobe5StarElite]

okiwater, what was your rationale of getting the new Sheraton Flex (x2)?

I am assuming this was bought through SVO and not on resale.

In MSC, do HomeOptions show differently than SOptions?

 

[okwiater]

okiwater, what was your rationale of getting the new Sheraton Flex (x2)?

I am assuming this was bought through SVO and not on resale.

In MSC, do HomeOptions show differently than SOptions?

MSC does show the HomeOptions and StarOptions values, in addition to the Starpoints values.

My rationale for purchase was to obtain 5*. I used the "equity" from a resale to trade "up" to Sheraton Flex. I do not see a lot of value in it today, but I am pretty convinced that new resorts will be added to the program which will make it a much more attractive and useful product in the future. I already own enough deeded weeks for the places I like to go, so I figured while obtaining 5* I would hedge a bit by purchasing the new product.

 

[gtm2011]

Sheraton Flex is a voluntary ownership, so StarOptions and SVN membership do not transfer. However, HomeOptions DO transfer on resale. HomeOptions represent your contractual usage rights.

Thanks, that is what I figured. I just don't like the two availability buckets at the existing resorts, since you will never have a clear understanding of what is available for SBP direct owners and FLEX SBP home resort bookings for the really tuff to book weeks. It shouldn't be an issue at the new hotel/timeshare conversions, since they should only be sold as FLEX.

 

[Wanttobe5StarElite]

MSC does show the HomeOptions and StarOptions values, in addition to the Starpoints values.

My rationale for purchase was to obtain 5*. I used the "equity" from a resale to trade "up" to Sheraton Flex. I do not see a lot of value in it today, but I am pretty convinced that new resorts will be added to the program which will make it a much more attractive and useful product in the future. I already own enough deeded weeks for the places I like to go, so I figured while obtaining 5* I would hedge a bit by purchasing the new product.

That makes sense since it is a developer purchase. Just wanted to make sure.

With regard to HomeOptions - it cannot be banked?
Can it be changed to SOptions?
Just want to clarify as it doesn't make much sense yet.
Just trying to get a handle on resales and SOptions - and now there is another variable (HomeOptions) to consider......

 

[alexadeparis]

My guess would be the exact opposite: that they would be mandatory on the resale market because you are NOT buying a deeded underlying week, you are buying a set number of "points".

 

[DTD1990]

Okwiater,

With Homeoptions (FLEX) can you book less than a full week at 12 months out?

 

[DavidnRobin]

People could be making incorrect assumptions that could lead to paying too much (or loss of value)
WSJ-CV has HomeResort Options that are same as StarOptions - they do not transfer - MEANING resale CV will only allow for staying at CV (just like WSJ-BV) - since it is not SVN Mandatory.

I suggest to be 100% certain (not depend on Salesperson...) that if you sell Flex that the buyer will have access to all Flex availability. And what happens outside the Flex system following resale? will it be available via SVN?
I doubt it...

be careful...

 

[okwiater]

With Homeoptions (FLEX) can you book less than a full week at 12 months out?

Yes, you can.

 

[Sicnarf]

I agree with David. With WSJ-CV, you will not get SOs. You'll retain the HRO's which you can use to book 9-12 months on your HR period and 0-8 months outside the HR period but only in WSJ-CV. FlexOptions should work the same way for resorts that are part of that Flex system.

 

[okwiater]

I agree with David. With WSJ-CV, you will not get SOs. You'll retain the HRO's which you can use to book 9-12 months on your HR period and 0-8 months outside the HR period but only in WSJ-CV. FlexOptions should work the same way for resorts that are part of that Flex system.

It's not a matter of who you agree with. It's how the contract is written. I already explained this in post #6 of this thread.

 

[pacman777]

It's not a matter of who you agree with. It's how the contract is written. I already explained this in post #6 of this thread.

Flex system resale may still be worth more than a voluntary resort resale since flex system gives you access to multiple resorts in the system instead of just one for a deeded season. It's too soon to tell but curious to see what resales on flex systems will go for.

 

[okwiater]

Flex system resale may still be worth more than a voluntary resort resale since flex system gives you access to multiple resorts in the system instead of just one for a deeded season. It's too soon to tell but curious to see what resales on flex systems will go for.

I don't think Flex will currently go for much on the resale market. MFs are too high and there are too few buyers who understand the product. However, if Flex becomes the primary way to access new SVO/Vistana resorts, then I could see its value increasing somewhat.

 

[DavidnRobin]

could have just directly answered...
they will not go for much because it doesn't allow SVN entry upon resale - just like other V resorts.

 

[okwiater]

could have just directly answered...
they will not go for much because it doesn't allow SVN entry upon resale - just like other V resorts.

Keep in mind that if additional resorts are added to Flex, the value may increase because it will act similar to a "mini-SVN" within the subset of Flex resorts.

Hypothetically, if the new resorts in Maui, Mexico, and Colorado were all sold as Flex properties, I would think the value would be significantly higher than your average voluntary resort ($0).

 

[tschwa2]

On the other hand if they start another Westin flex for the new resorts and keep this one with the leftover Sheraton's the value won't increase.

 

[okwiater]

On the other hand if they start another Westin flex for the new resorts and keep this one with the leftover Sheraton's the value won't increase.

True, but with almost 100% certainty the conversion of additional hotel units at the Sheraton Steamboat Springs won't turn it into a Westin. I suppose it's possible, but there is no precedent for such a move.

Also, think about what makes the most financial sense. If they combine new high-demand resorts into a trust with plenty of older and cheaper deeds, they can sell access to the new resorts many more times than there are available intervals.

 

[taterhed]

I was actually looking at picking up a mandatory SVO for making 'buffer' reservations in Hawaii to extend our vaca time on the islands. But, with all the uncertainty and mad-ROFR action; I decided to wait and see where this one goes. Too much change I fear.

I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners. Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...' You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this. IMHO

I think the title of the OP's post is spot-on.

 

[DTD1990]

Also, think about what makes the most financial sense. If they combine new high-demand resorts into a trust with plenty of older and cheaper deeds, they can sell access to the new resorts many more times than there are available intervals.

That is exactly my problem with FLEX. No one knows how many owners are competing for the same units. I agree that for the unsophisticated timeshare buyer mixing a nice resort with lesser resorts may bring in some sales, but that scheme can cut both ways. For example, I am interested in Steamboat only and may sit on the sidelines with my $$ because of the uncertainty in use rights with FLEX. I am sure I am not the only one with these concerns.

 

[lizap]

Again worth repeating: a good reason to buy where you want to vacation most of the time. TS systems, rules can be changed at any time..

I was actually looking at picking up a mandatory SVO for making 'buffer' reservations in Hawaii to extend our vaca time on the islands. But, with all the uncertainty and mad-ROFR action; I decided to wait and see where this one goes. Too much change I fear.

I really feel bad for the Voluntary resort owners. Some nice resorts, but a dead end unless you find out a good way to 'use what you got...' You'd think there would be some kind of exit strategy to all this. IMHO

I think the title of the OP's post is spot-on.