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Shady at best: My experience today with a Diamond to HGVC Max pressure sale

jayhawker

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We are very happy HGVC resale owners and recently went to a presentation. Fortunately, the sales rep was professional and not high pressure, but they did keep referring to our points as "restricted" and tried to offer us 1800 EOY points for more than twice what we just paid for our 4800 EOY points on the resale market (through one of the TUG recommended brokers last year). And yes, these 1800 points were going to have higher MF than our 4800 points, so I don't know why the Max points are going to have such high fees.

Hmm, that does bring back something this agent said. When I mentioned the existence of resale properties as an example (and not a threat), she did get an offended tone and said those points will be "restricted" and you won't be able access everything unless you had a Max designation. By that point, I had generally dismissed everything she was saying, but this is a curious parallel. I guess I will wait to see what April 1st brings.
 

Mongoose

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We are very happy HGVC resale owners and recently went to a presentation. Fortunately, the sales rep was professional and not high pressure, but they did keep referring to our points as "restricted" and tried to offer us 1800 EOY points for more than twice what we just paid for our 4800 EOY points on the resale market (through one of the TUG recommended brokers last year). And yes, these 1800 points were going to have higher MF than our 4800 points, so I don't know why the Max points are going to have such high fees.
Because they are based on DRI which have high MFs.
 

goaliedave

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Yup. Reportedly, they have let some go for their tactics. Whether that’s true or not, who knows. If I were @jayhawker I would consider reporting her to HGVC.

I’m not defending the timeshare salesman or even the ethics of company, just have heard that on various platforms.
Agree, report them. I got a salesperson fired once.
 

goaliedave

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My lucky day today, they canceled my mandatory sales presentation, can't imagine why. I'm here on a 2 week corporate marketing promo. Was looking forward to comparing details.
20220223_132446.jpg
20220223_132446.jpg
 

Mongoose

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Kakae

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THANK YOU TUGBBS FOR GIVING ME THE INFORMATION TO HELP MY PARENTS TODAY.
  • I am going to cross-post in both the HGVC and Diamond sections as I felt this should be information for both places.
  • This is my experience today with Yasamin (spelled phonetically and probably Jasmin) on the phone today from Mystic Dunes. I was on a conference call with her and my parents at the same time as they went through their MU.
  • Attached is a copy of the proposal Yasamin wanted my parents to sign.
  • Background:
    • My parents are early 70s
    • Have been Diamond members for ~15 years and actively use their points and vacation often across the US. They love the program and are part of the US Collection, Trust (no deed--that I know of).
    • My step-father was just diagnosed with dementia this year (which Yasamin did not know at the time of visit)
    • My parents are concerned with their future ability to travel, whether their program can be inherited, the increasing MFs of Diamond, and what the buyout holds for them.
My mother called yesterday. She was very excited to tell me that they are potentially going to hand down a small portion of my "inheritance" soon and wanted my input regarding whether I am interested in taking over their travel program at some point in the near future? She said Hilton had bought out Diamond and that they scheduled their owner's meeting during a stay at Mystic Dunes this week. After getting the information, the felt it was best to set up a conference call so we all could talk about options Hilton had for their program in the future.

Yasamin called and set up the three-way conversation. Most of the discussion centered around what my parents and Yasamin discussed the prior day and the contract they were about to sign. The main points:
  • Yasamin described herself specifically as a HVC Max specialist whose job was to specifically transition people from Diamond to HVC Max.
  • She said that timeshares are things of the past and everything was moving to a more streamlined platform where points could be used for things like vacation rentals, nights at exclusive places like the Waldorf or Conrad, cruises, HHonors points, even "House" rentals in the same manner as VRBO. She also used examples such as rental car purchases or gift cards. "The whole program is changing" and "very exciting."
  • She was very vague, but told my mother (to her best understanding) that if she did not sign up for Max, that her (already high) MFs would *double* because they will now be part of TWO programs which would need to be maintained.
    • Ahh! But her ability to fight on the behalf of my parents to get them changed over and to waive an add-on points program they had recently signed up for would fix everything. They just needed to buy a new $30K investment in HVC Max which would negate their old Diamond contract and make the world right. The good news? She was able to get that price down even more.
    • All they had to do was sign a contract for $21,067 at 15.79% interest for 10 years -- for the low price of $356.15 per month -->>>> AND $4192 maintenance fees -->>>> for 15,000 (current annual allotment) points AND (SCORE, RIGHT!?!) 7500 bonus points...subject to availability.
    • Ps., she never asked if my parents wanted to pay outright rather than finance IF they wanted to move forward anyhow.
    • THANK GOD MY PARENTS DIDN'T SIGN THIS AND CALLED TO ASK IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TAKING OVER ONE DAY....
My home family: We have been looking at a few different programs for a period of time. Mildly familiar with the terms of each program and knew my parents were always happy with their experiences. Financially well established and can pay cash for any program or investment we choose to settle upon. Previously a HHonors Diamond Elite member and familiar with Hilton and have been approached about HC before. Open minded to talk with Yasamin and might have even bought our own deed today at Valdoro if the numbers were correct. THANK YOU FOR THE YEARLY MFs vs Points SPREADSHEET!!!
  • I looked at the sales sheet which I will attach below. I was stunned. WTH is this? 16% interest? For what? Yasamin, what is this for?
    • "Well, that is the money required to switch your parents in the the much better Max program and get them out of the incredibly high MFs they pay now." "Your parents are getting older and you don't want them to continue to be financially burdened by such high fees, do you?" (with my parents on the phone)
  • I'm sorry, but I did some research on this program, and it isn't even launched yet--and wont be until April 1st. Is that correct?
    • "Oh no. Where did you get that information? We are selling this program right now. The information is out there."
      • She then referenced a form which my parents saw but she did not send with them
      • I guess this form talks about grandfathering the Diamond members into Max--but that there was a cost for doing so.
      • This might be true as may be (as has been discussed on this forum) three tiers and the Diamond members are the lowest and get the leftover, non HGVC properties which are transitioned.
      • I would suspect is going to be your ticket to being able to use your points at a location in any of the three tiers, at Hilton hotel portfolio properties, and all the other bells and whistles they will throw into the program. That has been discussed on TUG in many threads. (https://tugbbs.com/forums/goto/post?id=2719748 -- Thx @dayooper )
      • So I asked her--um, where is that info I can't find it on your site or any type of search?
    • She responded, "oh no, that is all internal. We aren't going to go advertising that for everyone to find. That information is just for members"
      • Hmm, ok, well that might be. Ok, well, my parents are members. It sounds like you are saying this program is official. I read emails and letters to other members on official Hilton letterhead that said the program was not available until April 1st and that new members who buy after January 15th or existing who buy new shares after the 15th would automatically be upgraded--but that no DETAILS were available until April 1st AND that there is the possibility that the program could never materialize.
      • If it is official, where are the benefits listed for me to read about the program?
    • "Well, that's just a legal part which is needed to protect the program. If you look, all companies do that."
      • Eh, you might be right, but I need to see WHAT we/they are actually being promised by enrolling today and signing the contract. You said the program has launched. Please show me where I can read about the specifics.
      • She had no real answer, just spin for this letter...and generally said she was unaware of this letter and that it might simply be fake. I chose not to discuss the marketing paperwork released on Facebook regarding the transition (found in the link above - Thanks @Nowaker )
    • I said, ok, well, how is Max set up? HGVC has a deed to a home property. I am assuming that my parents are going to be deeded to a property now, where is that going to be?
      • "Oh no, MAX is going to be set up in a trust--just like your parents have." There will not be a deed. You simply pay for points.
      • Umm, if there is no dead, but you said it was a "Real Estate" transaction -- where is the real property? Because a REAL ESTATE transaction is a transaction of REAL property by definition.
        • No real response for this and a deflection back to how max is a POINTS system just like Diamond.
  • At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in anything that was not deeded or able to be sold on the open market.
    • She then proceeded to talk about how much my family would lose in MFs gong forward if they did not make the change.
    • She talked about how my parents would need a lawyer and how it would cost potentially more than $20k to get out of the contract with Diamond since they were completely paid and contractually obligated to pay the MFs.
    • How if they died (YESSSSS! WITH MY PARENTS ON THE PHONE), that they would come after legal heirs --including me or even my children-- for any unpaid MFs
      • I almost laughed at this since BOTH my parents' and my assets are protected behind trusts.
  • I just thanked her for the time and proceeded to get off the call and immediately call my parents back to tell them NOT TO TALK WITH HER AGAIN OR SIGN ANYTHING IN THAT OFFICE. PERIOD.
    • I told her to wait until April 1st when the new program was launched and that it was almost certain that whatever deal they were offering now, would be available to them during the window of opportunity that was mentioned by Hilton.
  • There was more to this discussion, but these were the highlights.
In case it helps others, I am attaching a copy of the form that Yasamin was working with my parents on. It includes some very creative accounting. We had spoken on the phone for more than an hour and while I intended to go over the numbers with her, I had heard enough to raise so many flags that I didn't need to know more. Here are my questions:
  1. Is the $180,000.00 a shell game number that they are saying Max is worth? Or is this the value of my parents' plan right now?
  2. The new purchase amount is $20,317 and yet the total "Financed Amount" is $21,067 -- where is the other money going?
  3. Why are they charging a higher maintenance fee "based on added points" in the upper right corner?
    1. It seems that the "Bonus DDH" (points) are a one-time addition?
  4. Is Max now an un-deeded offering? and if so, damn the MFs are crazy.
  5. I have no idea what the $600/wk based upon availability chicken scratch is in the lower right.

@jayhawker Thank you for the info. I am a HGVC owner and I recieved a call yesterday. Where they wanted to up me to HGV Max.
I was offered a larger unit than I currently have which would be more points. It was to be a deeded transaction.
My MF would go up a bit but the larger the unit the more in MF. That is normal and seen in the HOA documents.
I asked what would it cast if I just kept my property and wanted to be HGV Max. I was told there was going to be an option for that but they did not know what the costs would be. That I would be better to lock in now and get the "better" deal that they have for me.
I was getting a lot of pressure. I told them I would wait to see what will happen.
To Add: The MF are different for different locations. Since I could use my points at any HGVC property I opted to purchase one of the lower MF properties as my home location.
 

Eileen A.

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?
 

CalGalTraveler

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?

IMHO...It would be better to buy an HGVC resale for under 10k than to pay $44k. You would not be able to combine points under both programs vs. HGV Max but saving $34k would be worth it to me.
 

rapmarks

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Your stepfather was just diagnosed with dementia. Get him in a research study for the infusion that works on early stages. Or your mother will be going. To timeshares alone in ten years. They should not be going to sales updates
 

Mongoose

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?
This just doesn't seem like real money anymore. I know they are experts in helping people rationalize it, but really?! Its kind of like them selling you an Uber membership for $40K and one free ride and still having to pay for every additional ride.
 

dayooper

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This just doesn't seem like real money anymore. I know they are experts in helping people rationalize it, but really?! Its kind of like them selling you an Uber membership for $40K and one free ride and still having to pay for every additional ride.

I just can’t fathom what timeshare companies are charging. I know there are upgrades and such, but even $30,000 is too much for me. I’ve seen over $100,000 for 1 week at some of the high level Hawaii HGVC deeds! I could be mistaken, but remember the cost for a platinum 3 bedroom penthouse at The Quin or Central on 5th was $500,000!

Spending what we spent for our 2 resale weeks seems like a lot.
 

NiteMaire

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platinum 3 bedroom penthouse at The Quin or Central on 5th was $500,000!
That's a Vidanta Grand Luxxe and/or Estates kind of number! Didn't realize others were anywhere near that for a week.
 

goaliedave

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How can it be mandatory?
Corporate marketing stay. They gave me a free 2 week stay in Cali. Mandatory also applies to EOLs and other corporate marketing gifts.
 

goaliedave

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?
The usual Diamond price per point for Loyalty members is $3.78. Back in 2019 I was offered $2.78 by the Regional VP who was on site - he's since moved to Bluegreen like a lot of senior Diamond staff.
 

goaliedave

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?
Also check out the 4 page internal FAQ that someone scanned and posted in the HGVC sub.
 

goaliedave

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I just can’t fathom what timeshare companies are charging. I know there are upgrades and such, but even $30,000 is too much for me. I’ve seen over $100,000 for 1 week at some of the high level Hawaii HGVC deeds! I could be mistaken, but remember the cost for a platinum 3 bedroom penthouse at The Quin or Central on 5th was $500,000!

Spending what we spent for our 2 resale weeks seems like a lot.
I dated a salesperson once and so sometimes got informal info, including one time at an update on Las Vegas from the sales manager. I said why am i sitting with you in a room with a dozen other little round tables, when i see an 80 year old guy at an exterior private office with a great view and beautiful salesperson? He winked and said every year we take him for a nice steak dinner and then he buys another $100,000 worth.

This trip I've met dozens of owners in the hot tub who love it and upgrade regularly. One lady said there's a category above platinum she's in. Another guy said his elderly mother in law upgrades every year as the family grows as she likes giving them away.

There are tons of whales with tons of money to waste, not like us, scheming hard to get the good deals.
 
Last edited:

elysium5

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We are very happy HGVC resale owners and recently went to a presentation. Fortunately, the sales rep was professional and not high pressure, but they did keep referring to our points as "restricted" and tried to offer us 1800 EOY points for more than twice what we just paid for our 4800 EOY points on the resale market (through one of the TUG recommended brokers last year). And yes, these 1800 points were going to have higher MF than our 4800 points, so I don't know why the Max points are going to have such high fees.
If there's a sure fire way to annoy someone in life, talk to a timeshare salesperson about resale!
 

Mongoose

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I dated a salesperson once and so sometimes got informal info, including one time at an update on Las Vegas from the sales manager. I said why am i sitting with you in a room with a dozen other little round tables, when i see an 80 year old guy at an exterior private office with a great view and beautiful salesperson? He winked and said every year we take him for a nice steak dinner and then he buys another $100,000 worth.

This trip I've met dozens of owners in the hot tub who love it and upgrade regularly. One lady said there's a category above platinum she's in. Another guy said his elderly mother in law upgrades every year as the family grows as she likes giving them away.

There are tons of whales with tons of money to waste, not like us, scheming hard to get the good deals.
I think you nailed it. Some people will pay that just to be treated special and have there ego stroked. I feel for the older gentlemen. It sounds like he does it for the attention.
 

ccwu

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Just attended a HGV Max presentation at the Polo Towers in Las Vegas. I'm a platinum member with Diamond with 51,500 pts.
To join HGV Max we needed to purchase 10,000 new points (normally $8 a point but we could buy for $4.43 a point). The
$4.43 was an introductory price for platinum owners. Prices will go up in April.

The $44,430 would give us access to the Hilton properties. Was told that as Diamond members move over to Max our inventory would become limited.

I'm not sure how many Diamond owners would pay that much to crossover. I'm thinking if someone wanted Hilton they would be better off
buying something resale and owning "both".

Thoughts?

You can buy resale HGV property for 11,200 points at a friction of the cost. HGV treated resale member and retail member basically the same other than not qualify for elite. Not as Dri has severe restrictions for resale members.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

CalGalTraveler

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I think you nailed it. Some people will pay that just to be treated special and have there ego stroked. I feel for the older gentlemen. It sounds like he does it for the attention.

You nailed it. People buy on emotion. Franklin Mint is another firm which preyed on an elderly whale relative of mine who was lonely. Called her regularly and she bought lots of trinkets worth a fraction of the price. When she died we were astounded as to how much she bought.
 

SDurbak

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THANK YOU TUGBBS FOR GIVING ME THE INFORMATION TO HELP MY PARENTS TODAY.
  • I am going to cross-post in both the HGVC and Diamond sections as I felt this should be information for both places.
  • This is my experience today with Yasamin (spelled phonetically and probably Jasmin) on the phone today from Mystic Dunes. I was on a conference call with her and my parents at the same time as they went through their MU.
  • Attached is a copy of the proposal Yasamin wanted my parents to sign.
  • Background:
    • My parents are early 70s
    • Have been Diamond members for ~15 years and actively use their points and vacation often across the US. They love the program and are part of the US Collection, Trust (no deed--that I know of).
    • My step-father was just diagnosed with dementia this year (which Yasamin did not know at the time of visit)
    • My parents are concerned with their future ability to travel, whether their program can be inherited, the increasing MFs of Diamond, and what the buyout holds for them.
My mother called yesterday. She was very excited to tell me that they are potentially going to hand down a small portion of my "inheritance" soon and wanted my input regarding whether I am interested in taking over their travel program at some point in the near future? She said Hilton had bought out Diamond and that they scheduled their owner's meeting during a stay at Mystic Dunes this week. After getting the information, the felt it was best to set up a conference call so we all could talk about options Hilton had for their program in the future.

Yasamin called and set up the three-way conversation. Most of the discussion centered around what my parents and Yasamin discussed the prior day and the contract they were about to sign. The main points:
  • Yasamin described herself specifically as a HVC Max specialist whose job was to specifically transition people from Diamond to HVC Max.
  • She said that timeshares are things of the past and everything was moving to a more streamlined platform where points could be used for things like vacation rentals, nights at exclusive places like the Waldorf or Conrad, cruises, HHonors points, even "House" rentals in the same manner as VRBO. She also used examples such as rental car purchases or gift cards. "The whole program is changing" and "very exciting."
  • She was very vague, but told my mother (to her best understanding) that if she did not sign up for Max, that her (already high) MFs would *double* because they will now be part of TWO programs which would need to be maintained.
    • Ahh! But her ability to fight on the behalf of my parents to get them changed over and to waive an add-on points program they had recently signed up for would fix everything. They just needed to buy a new $30K investment in HVC Max which would negate their old Diamond contract and make the world right. The good news? She was able to get that price down even more.
    • All they had to do was sign a contract for $21,067 at 15.79% interest for 10 years -- for the low price of $356.15 per month -->>>> AND $4192 maintenance fees -->>>> for 15,000 (current annual allotment) points AND (SCORE, RIGHT!?!) 7500 bonus points...subject to availability.
    • Ps., she never asked if my parents wanted to pay outright rather than finance IF they wanted to move forward anyhow.
    • THANK GOD MY PARENTS DIDN'T SIGN THIS AND CALLED TO ASK IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TAKING OVER ONE DAY....
My home family: We have been looking at a few different programs for a period of time. Mildly familiar with the terms of each program and knew my parents were always happy with their experiences. Financially well established and can pay cash for any program or investment we choose to settle upon. Previously a HHonors Diamond Elite member and familiar with Hilton and have been approached about HC before. Open minded to talk with Yasamin and might have even bought our own deed today at Valdoro if the numbers were correct. THANK YOU FOR THE YEARLY MFs vs Points SPREADSHEET!!!
  • I looked at the sales sheet which I will attach below. I was stunned. WTH is this? 16% interest? For what? Yasamin, what is this for?
    • "Well, that is the money required to switch your parents in the the much better Max program and get them out of the incredibly high MFs they pay now." "Your parents are getting older and you don't want them to continue to be financially burdened by such high fees, do you?" (with my parents on the phone)
  • I'm sorry, but I did some research on this program, and it isn't even launched yet--and wont be until April 1st. Is that correct?
    • "Oh no. Where did you get that information? We are selling this program right now. The information is out there."
      • She then referenced a form which my parents saw but she did not send with them
      • I guess this form talks about grandfathering the Diamond members into Max--but that there was a cost for doing so.
      • This might be true as may be (as has been discussed on this forum) three tiers and the Diamond members are the lowest and get the leftover, non HGVC properties which are transitioned.
      • I would suspect is going to be your ticket to being able to use your points at a location in any of the three tiers, at Hilton hotel portfolio properties, and all the other bells and whistles they will throw into the program. That has been discussed on TUG in many threads. (https://tugbbs.com/forums/goto/post?id=2719748 -- Thx @dayooper )
      • So I asked her--um, where is that info I can't find it on your site or any type of search?
    • She responded, "oh no, that is all internal. We aren't going to go advertising that for everyone to find. That information is just for members"
      • Hmm, ok, well that might be. Ok, well, my parents are members. It sounds like you are saying this program is official. I read emails and letters to other members on official Hilton letterhead that said the program was not available until April 1st and that new members who buy after January 15th or existing who buy new shares after the 15th would automatically be upgraded--but that no DETAILS were available until April 1st AND that there is the possibility that the program could never materialize.
      • If it is official, where are the benefits listed for me to read about the program?
    • "Well, that's just a legal part which is needed to protect the program. If you look, all companies do that."
      • Eh, you might be right, but I need to see WHAT we/they are actually being promised by enrolling today and signing the contract. You said the program has launched. Please show me where I can read about the specifics.
      • She had no real answer, just spin for this letter...and generally said she was unaware of this letter and that it might simply be fake. I chose not to discuss the marketing paperwork released on Facebook regarding the transition (found in the link above - Thanks @Nowaker )
    • I said, ok, well, how is Max set up? HGVC has a deed to a home property. I am assuming that my parents are going to be deeded to a property now, where is that going to be?
      • "Oh no, MAX is going to be set up in a trust--just like your parents have." There will not be a deed. You simply pay for points.
      • Umm, if there is no dead, but you said it was a "Real Estate" transaction -- where is the real property? Because a REAL ESTATE transaction is a transaction of REAL property by definition.
        • No real response for this and a deflection back to how max is a POINTS system just like Diamond.
  • At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in anything that was not deeded or able to be sold on the open market.
    • She then proceeded to talk about how much my family would lose in MFs gong forward if they did not make the change.
    • She talked about how my parents would need a lawyer and how it would cost potentially more than $20k to get out of the contract with Diamond since they were completely paid and contractually obligated to pay the MFs.
    • How if they died (YESSSSS! WITH MY PARENTS ON THE PHONE), that they would come after legal heirs --including me or even my children-- for any unpaid MFs
      • I almost laughed at this since BOTH my parents' and my assets are protected behind trusts.
  • I just thanked her for the time and proceeded to get off the call and immediately call my parents back to tell them NOT TO TALK WITH HER AGAIN OR SIGN ANYTHING IN THAT OFFICE. PERIOD.
    • I told her to wait until April 1st when the new program was launched and that it was almost certain that whatever deal they were offering now, would be available to them during the window of opportunity that was mentioned by Hilton.
  • There was more to this discussion, but these were the highlights.
In case it helps others, I am attaching a copy of the form that Yasamin was working with my parents on. It includes some very creative accounting. We had spoken on the phone for more than an hour and while I intended to go over the numbers with her, I had heard enough to raise so many flags that I didn't need to know more. Here are my questions:
  1. Is the $180,000.00 a shell game number that they are saying Max is worth? Or is this the value of my parents' plan right now?
  2. The new purchase amount is $20,317 and yet the total "Financed Amount" is $21,067 -- where is the other money going?
  3. Why are they charging a higher maintenance fee "based on added points" in the upper right corner?
    1. It seems that the "Bonus DDH" (points) are a one-tim
[/QUOTE]
THANK YOU TUGBBS FOR GIVING ME THE INFORMATION TO HELP MY PARENTS TODAY.
  • I am going to cross-post in both the HGVC and Diamond sections as I felt this should be information for both places.
  • This is my experience today with Yasamin (spelled phonetically and probably Jasmin) on the phone today from Mystic Dunes. I was on a conference call with her and my parents at the same time as they went through their MU.
  • Attached is a copy of the proposal Yasamin wanted my parents to sign.
  • Background:
    • My parents are early 70s
    • Have been Diamond members for ~15 years and actively use their points and vacation often across the US. They love the program and are part of the US Collection, Trust (no deed--that I know of).
    • My step-father was just diagnosed with dementia this year (which Yasamin did not know at the time of visit)
    • My parents are concerned with their future ability to travel, whether their program can be inherited, the increasing MFs of Diamond, and what the buyout holds for them.
My mother called yesterday. She was very excited to tell me that they are potentially going to hand down a small portion of my "inheritance" soon and wanted my input regarding whether I am interested in taking over their travel program at some point in the near future? She said Hilton had bought out Diamond and that they scheduled their owner's meeting during a stay at Mystic Dunes this week. After getting the information, the felt it was best to set up a conference call so we all could talk about options Hilton had for their program in the future.

Yasamin called and set up the three-way conversation. Most of the discussion centered around what my parents and Yasamin discussed the prior day and the contract they were about to sign. The main points:
  • Yasamin described herself specifically as a HVC Max specialist whose job was to specifically transition people from Diamond to HVC Max.
  • She said that timeshares are things of the past and everything was moving to a more streamlined platform where points could be used for things like vacation rentals, nights at exclusive places like the Waldorf or Conrad, cruises, HHonors points, even "House" rentals in the same manner as VRBO. She also used examples such as rental car purchases or gift cards. "The whole program is changing" and "very exciting."
  • She was very vague, but told my mother (to her best understanding) that if she did not sign up for Max, that her (already high) MFs would *double* because they will now be part of TWO programs which would need to be maintained.
    • Ahh! But her ability to fight on the behalf of my parents to get them changed over and to waive an add-on points program they had recently signed up for would fix everything. They just needed to buy a new $30K investment in HVC Max which would negate their old Diamond contract and make the world right. The good news? She was able to get that price down even more.
    • All they had to do was sign a contract for $21,067 at 15.79% interest for 10 years -- for the low price of $356.15 per month -->>>> AND $4192 maintenance fees -->>>> for 15,000 (current annual allotment) points AND (SCORE, RIGHT!?!) 7500 bonus points...subject to availability.
    • Ps., she never asked if my parents wanted to pay outright rather than finance IF they wanted to move forward anyhow.
    • THANK GOD MY PARENTS DIDN'T SIGN THIS AND CALLED TO ASK IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TAKING OVER ONE DAY....
My home family: We have been looking at a few different programs for a period of time. Mildly familiar with the terms of each program and knew my parents were always happy with their experiences. Financially well established and can pay cash for any program or investment we choose to settle upon. Previously a HHonors Diamond Elite member and familiar with Hilton and have been approached about HC before. Open minded to talk with Yasamin and might have even bought our own deed today at Valdoro if the numbers were correct. THANK YOU FOR THE YEARLY MFs vs Points SPREADSHEET!!!
  • I looked at the sales sheet which I will attach below. I was stunned. WTH is this? 16% interest? For what? Yasamin, what is this for?
    • "Well, that is the money required to switch your parents in the the much better Max program and get them out of the incredibly high MFs they pay now." "Your parents are getting older and you don't want them to continue to be financially burdened by such high fees, do you?" (with my parents on the phone)
  • I'm sorry, but I did some research on this program, and it isn't even launched yet--and wont be until April 1st. Is that correct?
    • "Oh no. Where did you get that information? We are selling this program right now. The information is out there."
      • She then referenced a form which my parents saw but she did not send with them
      • I guess this form talks about grandfathering the Diamond members into Max--but that there was a cost for doing so.
      • This might be true as may be (as has been discussed on this forum) three tiers and the Diamond members are the lowest and get the leftover, non HGVC properties which are transitioned.
      • I would suspect is going to be your ticket to being able to use your points at a location in any of the three tiers, at Hilton hotel portfolio properties, and all the other bells and whistles they will throw into the program. That has been discussed on TUG in many threads. (https://tugbbs.com/forums/goto/post?id=2719748 -- Thx @dayooper )
      • So I asked her--um, where is that info I can't find it on your site or any type of search?
    • She responded, "oh no, that is all internal. We aren't going to go advertising that for everyone to find. That information is just for members"
      • Hmm, ok, well that might be. Ok, well, my parents are members. It sounds like you are saying this program is official. I read emails and letters to other members on official Hilton letterhead that said the program was not available until April 1st and that new members who buy after January 15th or existing who buy new shares after the 15th would automatically be upgraded--but that no DETAILS were available until April 1st AND that there is the possibility that the program could never materialize.
      • If it is official, where are the benefits listed for me to read about the program?
    • "Well, that's just a legal part which is needed to protect the program. If you look, all companies do that."
      • Eh, you might be right, but I need to see WHAT we/they are actually being promised by enrolling today and signing the contract. You said the program has launched. Please show me where I can read about the specifics.
      • She had no real answer, just spin for this letter...and generally said she was unaware of this letter and that it might simply be fake. I chose not to discuss the marketing paperwork released on Facebook regarding the transition (found in the link above - Thanks @Nowaker )
    • I said, ok, well, how is Max set up? HGVC has a deed to a home property. I am assuming that my parents are going to be deeded to a property now, where is that going to be?
      • "Oh no, MAX is going to be set up in a trust--just like your parents have." There will not be a deed. You simply pay for points.
      • Umm, if there is no dead, but you said it was a "Real Estate" transaction -- where is the real property? Because a REAL ESTATE transaction is a transaction of REAL property by definition.
        • No real response for this and a deflection back to how max is a POINTS system just like Diamond.
  • At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in anything that was not deeded or able to be sold on the open market.
    • She then proceeded to talk about how much my family would lose in MFs gong forward if they did not make the change.
    • She talked about how my parents would need a lawyer and how it would cost potentially more than $20k to get out of the contract with Diamond since they were completely paid and contractually obligated to pay the MFs.
    • How if they died (YESSSSS! WITH MY PARENTS ON THE PHONE), that they would come after legal heirs --including me or even my children-- for any unpaid MFs
      • I almost laughed at this since BOTH my parents' and my assets are protected behind trusts.
  • I just thanked her for the time and proceeded to get off the call and immediately call my parents back to tell them NOT TO TALK WITH HER AGAIN OR SIGN ANYTHING IN THAT OFFICE. PERIOD.
    • I told her to wait until April 1st when the new program was launched and that it was almost certain that whatever deal they were offering now, would be available to them during the window of opportunity that was mentioned by Hilton.
  • There was more to this discussion, but these were the highlights.
In case it helps others, I am attaching a copy of the form that Yasamin was working with my parents on. It includes some very creative accounting. We had spoken on the phone for more than an hour and while I intended to go over the numbers with her, I had heard enough to raise so many flags that I didn't need to know more. Here are my questions:
  1. Is the $180,000.00 a shell game number that they are saying Max is worth? Or is this the value of my parents' plan right now?
  2. The new purchase amount is $20,317 and yet the total "FiAmount" is $21,067 -- where is the other money going?
  3. Why are they charging a higher maintenance fee "based on added points" in the upper right corner?
    1. It seems that the "Bonus DDH" (points) are a one-time addition?
  4. Is Max now an un-deeded offering? and if so, damn the MFs are crazy.
  5. I have no idea what the $600/wk based upon availability chicken scratch is in the low
 

SDurbak

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This is my experience today with Yasamin (spelled phonetically and probably Jasmin) on the phone today from Mystic Dunes
I just read this post last night. My husband and I are at Mystic Dunes on an “Event of a lifetime” visit, and we had our so-called account review this morning. Our rep introduced herself as Yasaman, and I immediately recognized her from your post. We had a bad experience - we are DRI club combo members, and what we had planned to do this year was to swap our 1 BR unit in South Africa for a 2 BR unit, and deposit that in the club combo in order to get enough points each year to be silver level. (We were given 2 years of silver status when we purchased 2 years ago.). To make this story short, I’ll just say that I left the room twice in tears before it was all over. We couldn’t use our Dream Vacation due to Covid, and they wouldn’t extend it or honor it. Jasaman kept telling us that we had to have already switched our 1 BR for the 2 BR before January 1. (However when the boss came by he said we had to do it by April 1, along with paying $36,000 for an additional 4500 points in order to get silver status). Jasaman wasn’t interested in talking about what WE wanted to do, she just kept showing us the “best offer from corporate” which was going to cost us either $30,000 or $40,000, depending on whether or not we gave her the names of 3 people they could call and try to sell to. I kept turning those papers face down on the table and telling her we WERE NOT interesting in spending that much money to get into the HGV Max program, but she just kept coming back to that over and over. She also showed us in writing that we were going to be billed an additional almost $1200+ for maintenance fees in addition to the $1855 we just paid . She claimed our maintenance fees were going to continue to go up every year with Hilton. We finally just left, and made no changes to what we already had, which they have to honor. I am so very unhappy with this transition to HGV. It’s just about ruined our little get-away vacation.
 

pedro47

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I just read this post last night. My husband and I are at Mystic Dunes on an “Event of a lifetime” visit, and we had our so-called account review this morning. Our rep introduced herself as Yasaman, and I immediately recognized her from your post. We had a bad experience - we are DRI club combo members, and what we had planned to do this year was to swap our 1 BR unit in South Africa for a 2 BR unit, and deposit that in the club combo in order to get enough points each year to be silver level. (We were given 2 years of silver status when we purchased 2 years ago.). To make this story short, I’ll just say that I left the room twice in tears before it was all over. We couldn’t use our Dream Vacation due to Covid, and they wouldn’t extend it or honor it. Jasaman kept telling us that we had to have already switched our 1 BR for the 2 BR before January 1. (However when the boss came by he said we had to do it by April 1, along with paying $36,000 for an additional 4500 points in order to get silver status). Jasaman wasn’t interested in talking about what WE wanted to do, she just kept showing us the “best offer from corporate” which was going to cost us either $30,000 or $40,000, depending on whether or not we gave her the names of 3 people they could call and try to sell to. I kept turning those papers face down on the table and telling her we WERE NOT interesting in spending that much money to get into the HGV Max program, but she just kept coming back to that over and over. She also showed us in writing that we were going to be billed an additional almost $1200+ for maintenance fees in addition to the $1855 we just paid . She claimed our maintenance fees were going to continue to go up every year with Hilton. We finally just left, and made no changes to what we already had, which they have to honor. I am so very unhappy with this transition to HGV. It’s just about ruined our little get-away vacation.
I feel you made the right decision by leaving the room
Personally, I am very disappointed this is how the Hilton Sale Team is operating.
 

pedro47

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I just read this post last night. My husband and I are at Mystic Dunes on an “Event of a lifetime” visit, and we had our so-called account review this morning. Our rep introduced herself as Yasaman, and I immediately recognized her from your post. We had a bad experience - we are DRI club combo members, and what we had planned to do this year was to swap our 1 BR unit in South Africa for a 2 BR unit, and deposit that in the club combo in order to get enough points each year to be silver level. (We were given 2 years of silver status when we purchased 2 years ago.). To make this story short, I’ll just say that I left the room twice in tears before it was all over. We couldn’t use our Dream Vacation due to Covid, and they wouldn’t extend it or honor it. Jasaman kept telling us that we had to have already switched our 1 BR for the 2 BR before January 1. (However when the boss came by he said we had to do it by April 1, along with paying $36,000 for an additional 4500 points in order to get silver status). Jasaman wasn’t interested in talking about what WE wanted to do, she just kept showing us the “best offer from corporate” which was going to cost us either $30,000 or $40,000, depending on whether or not we gave her the names of 3 people they could call and try to sell to. I kept turning those papers face down on the table and telling her we WERE NOT interesting in spending that much money to get into the HGV Max program, but she just kept coming back to that over and over. She also showed us in writing that we were going to be billed an additional almost $1200+ for maintenance fees in addition to the $1855 we just paid . She claimed our maintenance fees were going to continue to go up every year with Hilton. We finally just left, and made no changes to what we already had, which they have to honor. I am so very unhappy with this transition to HGV. It’s just about ruined our little get-away vacation.
Some of these Hilton sale staff members are making West Gate sales team look liked angels. Folks that is not good.
 
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SmithOp

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Some of these Hilton sale staff members are making West Gate sales team look liked angels. Folks that is not good.
These are not HGV sales people, she was at Mystic Dunes which is a DRI property I presume because it's not HGV. These are DRI sales people that HGV inherited when they purchased DRI. HGV Sales people do not reduce owner to tears, this Jasmin needs to be fired.

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