THANK YOU TUGBBS FOR GIVING ME THE INFORMATION TO HELP MY PARENTS TODAY.
- I am going to cross-post in both the HGVC and Diamond sections as I felt this should be information for both places.
- This is my experience today with Yasamin (spelled phonetically and probably Jasmin) on the phone today from Mystic Dunes. I was on a conference call with her and my parents at the same time as they went through their MU.
- Attached is a copy of the proposal Yasamin wanted my parents to sign.
- Background:
- My parents are early 70s
- Have been Diamond members for ~15 years and actively use their points and vacation often across the US. They love the program and are part of the US Collection, Trust (no deed--that I know of).
- My step-father was just diagnosed with dementia this year (which Yasamin did not know at the time of visit)
- My parents are concerned with their future ability to travel, whether their program can be inherited, the increasing MFs of Diamond, and what the buyout holds for them.
My mother called yesterday. She was very excited to tell me that they are potentially going to hand down a small portion of my "inheritance" soon and wanted my input regarding whether I am interested in taking over their travel program at some point in the near future? She said Hilton had bought out Diamond and that they scheduled their owner's meeting during a stay at Mystic Dunes this week. After getting the information, the felt it was best to set up a conference call so we all could talk about options Hilton had for their program in the future.
Yasamin called and set up the three-way conversation. Most of the discussion centered around what my parents and Yasamin discussed the prior day and the contract they were about to sign. The main points:
- Yasamin described herself specifically as a HVC Max specialist whose job was to specifically transition people from Diamond to HVC Max.
- She said that timeshares are things of the past and everything was moving to a more streamlined platform where points could be used for things like vacation rentals, nights at exclusive places like the Waldorf or Conrad, cruises, HHonors points, even "House" rentals in the same manner as VRBO. She also used examples such as rental car purchases or gift cards. "The whole program is changing" and "very exciting."
- She was very vague, but told my mother (to her best understanding) that if she did not sign up for Max, that her (already high) MFs would *double* because they will now be part of TWO programs which would need to be maintained.
- Ahh! But her ability to fight on the behalf of my parents to get them changed over and to waive an add-on points program they had recently signed up for would fix everything. They just needed to buy a new $30K investment in HVC Max which would negate their old Diamond contract and make the world right. The good news? She was able to get that price down even more.
- All they had to do was sign a contract for $21,067 at 15.79% interest for 10 years -- for the low price of $356.15 per month -->>>> AND $4192 maintenance fees -->>>> for 15,000 (current annual allotment) points AND (SCORE, RIGHT!?!) 7500 bonus points...subject to availability.
- Ps., she never asked if my parents wanted to pay outright rather than finance IF they wanted to move forward anyhow.
- THANK GOD MY PARENTS DIDN'T SIGN THIS AND CALLED TO ASK IF I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN TAKING OVER ONE DAY....
My home family: We have been looking at a few different programs for a period of time. Mildly familiar with the terms of each program and knew my parents were always happy with their experiences. Financially well established and can pay cash for any program or investment we choose to settle upon. Previously a HHonors Diamond Elite member and familiar with Hilton and have been approached about HC before. Open minded to talk with Yasamin and might have even bought our own deed today at Valdoro if the numbers were correct.
THANK YOU FOR THE YEARLY MFs vs Points SPREADSHEET!!!
- I looked at the sales sheet which I will attach below. I was stunned. WTH is this? 16% interest? For what? Yasamin, what is this for?
- "Well, that is the money required to switch your parents in the the much better Max program and get them out of the incredibly high MFs they pay now." "Your parents are getting older and you don't want them to continue to be financially burdened by such high fees, do you?" (with my parents on the phone)
- I'm sorry, but I did some research on this program, and it isn't even launched yet--and wont be until April 1st. Is that correct?
- "Oh no. Where did you get that information? We are selling this program right now. The information is out there."
- She then referenced a form which my parents saw but she did not send with them
- I guess this form talks about grandfathering the Diamond members into Max--but that there was a cost for doing so.
- This might be true as may be (as has been discussed on this forum) three tiers and the Diamond members are the lowest and get the leftover, non HGVC properties which are transitioned.
- I would suspect is going to be your ticket to being able to use your points at a location in any of the three tiers, at Hilton hotel portfolio properties, and all the other bells and whistles they will throw into the program. That has been discussed on TUG in many threads. (https://tugbbs.com/forums/goto/post?id=2719748 -- Thx @dayooper )
- So I asked her--um, where is that info I can't find it on your site or any type of search?
- She responded, "oh no, that is all internal. We aren't going to go advertising that for everyone to find. That information is just for members"
- Hmm, ok, well that might be. Ok, well, my parents are members. It sounds like you are saying this program is official. I read emails and letters to other members on official Hilton letterhead that said the program was not available until April 1st and that new members who buy after January 15th or existing who buy new shares after the 15th would automatically be upgraded--but that no DETAILS were available until April 1st AND that there is the possibility that the program could never materialize.
- If it is official, where are the benefits listed for me to read about the program?
- "Well, that's just a legal part which is needed to protect the program. If you look, all companies do that."
- Eh, you might be right, but I need to see WHAT we/they are actually being promised by enrolling today and signing the contract. You said the program has launched. Please show me where I can read about the specifics.
- She had no real answer, just spin for this letter...and generally said she was unaware of this letter and that it might simply be fake. I chose not to discuss the marketing paperwork released on Facebook regarding the transition (found in the link above - Thanks @Nowaker )
- I said, ok, well, how is Max set up? HGVC has a deed to a home property. I am assuming that my parents are going to be deeded to a property now, where is that going to be?
- "Oh no, MAX is going to be set up in a trust--just like your parents have." There will not be a deed. You simply pay for points.
- Umm, if there is no dead, but you said it was a "Real Estate" transaction -- where is the real property? Because a REAL ESTATE transaction is a transaction of REAL property by definition.
- No real response for this and a deflection back to how max is a POINTS system just like Diamond.
- At this point, I told her that I was no longer interested in anything that was not deeded or able to be sold on the open market.
- She then proceeded to talk about how much my family would lose in MFs gong forward if they did not make the change.
- She talked about how my parents would need a lawyer and how it would cost potentially more than $20k to get out of the contract with Diamond since they were completely paid and contractually obligated to pay the MFs.
- How if they died (YESSSSS! WITH MY PARENTS ON THE PHONE), that they would come after legal heirs --including me or even my children-- for any unpaid MFs
- I almost laughed at this since BOTH my parents' and my assets are protected behind trusts.
- I just thanked her for the time and proceeded to get off the call and immediately call my parents back to tell them NOT TO TALK WITH HER AGAIN OR SIGN ANYTHING IN THAT OFFICE. PERIOD.
- I told her to wait until April 1st when the new program was launched and that it was almost certain that whatever deal they were offering now, would be available to them during the window of opportunity that was mentioned by Hilton.
- There was more to this discussion, but these were the highlights.
In case it helps others, I am attaching a copy of the form that Yasamin was working with my parents on. It includes some very creative accounting. We had spoken on the phone for more than an hour and while I intended to go over the numbers with her, I had heard enough to raise so many flags that I didn't need to know more. Here are my questions:
- Is the $180,000.00 a shell game number that they are saying Max is worth? Or is this the value of my parents' plan right now?
- The new purchase amount is $20,317 and yet the total "Financed Amount" is $21,067 -- where is the other money going?
- Why are they charging a higher maintenance fee "based on added points" in the upper right corner?
- It seems that the "Bonus DDH" (points) are a one-time addition?
- Is Max now an un-deeded offering? and if so, damn the MFs are crazy.
- I have no idea what the $600/wk based upon availability chicken scratch is in the lower right.