Seller stripped points before transfer complete [Wyndham]

[Family_travel]

I brought an EOY odd contract from a seller that contacted me through the user group. The contract as stated in the deed was suppose to have 2017 points.
Tuesday, I called Wyndham to try to credit pool the 2017 points to make a reservation for 2016. I was informed the points had already been credit pooled and my next use points will be 2019.

I have contacted the transfer company that was used, but I wanted to ask the group of my options.
Will the transfer company be able to handle this or do we have to get a lawyer involved?

Is there anyway to avoid this in the future?

 

[DeniseM]

What "user group" - TUG?

I would start with the transfer company - who did you use?

Was the seller an individual or a company?

 

[Family_travel]

What "user group" - TUG?

I would start with the transfer company - who did you use?

Was the seller an individual or a company?

Yes, TUG.
We used LT Transfers; they have contacted the seller.
It was an individual.

 

[DeniseM]

LT Transfers is very reputable and has a lot of experience - I would follow their advice. They also have an attorney on staff.

Is the seller a TUG member?

 

[travelplus]

I thought during the transfer process the points/weeks gets "locked' so no one can pull the points or use them until it closes. So if the old user was entitled to use the current year it would have had to have been booked before the beginning of the transfer process not during or after. I would have thought Wyndham would see that the points are being transferred and not allow them to be used. If your contract was for the current use year then you are entitled to do whatever you want with them once the contract was ended.

I would like to see the contract if it said that you were entitled to the current use year. 2019 is such a long time away and for me this would be the reason to cancel the contract and find another one with the current use year.

 

[theo]

I'd be strongly inclined to place a bet, right here and right now, without any further facts or information, on the identity of the TUG seller involved, but I will instead just heed the advice of my parents to me when I was child; "If you can't say anything good about someone, don't say anything at all". I can't --- so I won't. :ignore:

 

[AriMorgan]

Did the seller not get the Ownership interest details (AKA - Estoppel) from Wyndham for the points account?

 

[DeniseM]

Did the seller not get the Ownership interest details (AKA - Estoppel) from Wyndham for the points account?

That is a standard part of LT Transfers process, so I'd be surprised if they didn't.

 

[Ty1on]

I'd be strongly inclined to place a bet, right here and right now, without any further facts or information, on the identity of the TUG seller involved, but I will instead just heed the advice of my parents to me when I was child; "If you can't say anything good about someone, don't say anything at all". I can't --- so I won't. :ignore:

Great minds think alike.

 

[ronparise]

It wasnt me, it that's the bet

a couple of things.

If the 2017 points were credit pooled, and not used. The credit pooled points ought to transfer. So take a look, you may have those points in the pool

The wydham estoppel doesnt speak to future years points, only the current year. It will say something like this:

Your vacation ownership interest consists of xxxx points in yyyy resort. This is an annual ownership interest You currently have xxx points available for use during the current use year. The use year for this contract ends on Dec 31

There is no loan balance

Your annual fees are $$$ paid monthly and the next monthly payment is due (date)


The point here is that the seller can snatch the future years points and the estoppel wont notice

When Im buying from an individual I always make it clear in my purchase and sale agreement, that I expect to get the 2016 and 2017 points (and in 2016 Ill want the 2017 and 2018) This is something I write into the contracts.
and I like to see a copy of their points summary page from the website.

When Im buying from an ebay seller, Im signing their contract and its not usually spelled out, but its understood and I trust the pros more than I do an individual. If I get burned shame on me.... hasn't happened yet

Lt transfers can only enforce whats in the written contract you gave them. and even then I wouldnt expect too much. Their job is to write a new deed, record it, and send it off to Wyndham. They dont offer title insurance or any guarantees


and no, Wyndham doesnt freeze a contract, during transfer. A seller could use the points right up to the day the contract leaves his account


and by the way if you were buying from me, chances are all the 2015. 2016 and 2017 points would have been used . Id be selling a stripped contract.. and you would know it. because thats what I would have written in our agreement.

 

[TUGBrian]

did you have a wish ad and someone contacted you thru it? did they contact you thru the forum? if you have in the contract that the 2017 points are yours...id certainly like to hear what the seller says especially if they are a TUG member.

 

[Family_travel]

It was not Ron. He has given this newbie a lot of advice, so I will come to his defense.
I was contacted by a TUG member after replying to a post about resale prices going up. He gave me a great deal.
It is in the contract that points start in 2017. I cant remember if I called Wyndham after I received a copy of the estoppel letter.
I'm hoping the seller is willing to make this right and that he did not realize what he did.

 

[TUGBrian]

please let me know how this unfolds....i appreciate you giving him the opportunity to correct what might have been an honest mistake.

hopefully he will make it right and honor what was in the sales contract.

 

[Family_travel]

If the 2017 points were credit pooled, and not used. The credit pooled points ought to transfer. So take a look, you may have those points in the pool.

The account summary says credit pool 0 housekeeping credits 399 for use year 2017-2018

 

[ronparise]

The account summary says credit pool 0 housekeeping credits 399 for use year 2017-2018

You shouldn't see the 2018 points until January

A common misunderstanding is around the use year
And it can be especially confusing if your use year isn't jan 1 through dec 31

Your 2015 points are points that expire in 2015
2016 points expire in 2016 and
2017 points expire in 2017

an ad for a July use year contract could say first use is 2017 and you wouldn't see them in the account until jan 1 2016. Why? Because these are 2018 points points good for travel from July 1 2017 thru June 2018

 

[Ty1on]

It's EOY, so he should see 2017, and there would be no 2018

 

[Talent312]

[T]he advice of my parents to me when I was child; "If you can't say anything good about someone, don't say anything at all."

In my family, we knew this as the Thumper Principle from Disney's "Bambi."
But of course, it pre-dates Disney.

"Thumper, What did your daddy tell you?"...

.

 

[alexadeparis]

In my family, we knew this as the Thumper Principle from Disney's "Bambi."
But of course, it pre-dates Disney.

"Thumper, What did your daddy tell you?"...

.

Which is why in person I am usually so quiet. :ignore:

But seriously, I hope this ends up working out ok for you, OP.

 

[Bigrob]

It wasn't me either, but it's easy to see how this could happen, and it may not be intentional at all.

If the Seller credit pooled the points and has other contracts remaining in the account, the credit-pooled points may or may not transfer. Generally speaking; if the points were credit pooled "alone" - not with other points at the same date/time - then they should be associated to the contract and transfer with it. However, if they were credit pooled along with other contracts into one larger credit pool - they generally will NOT transfer.

I advise reaching out to the seller to see if this is the case. It just may require a three-way call with Wyndham Title to straighten out.

Also, don't under-estimate what LT Transfer can do in situations like this. If the contract specifies that the Buyer gets use of the 2017 points, they can and will help enforce that with the Seller if necessary. They were great in helping support me with a messy transfer. Of course it would have to be in the contract that you were supposed to get the 2017 points (my guess is that's probably in your purchase agreement as it would be standard in LT's PA.)

Good luck, I think this is going to work out for you.

 

[FLDVCFamily]

This happened to me also, but the seller made it right by paying the dues on those points. I contacted the closing company and this was taken care of quickly. I hope you have the same success.

 

[Family_travel]

Thanks for advice

Thank you everyone for your advice and encouragement.
The LT Transfers has contacted the seller, and the seller is contacting Wyndham.
I will post an update when I have a resolution.

 

[decadude]

Did the seller not get the Ownership interest details (AKA - Estoppel) from Wyndham for the points account?

Already mentioned but this pretty much boils down to what was stated in the estoppel

 

[Bigrob]

Already mentioned but this pretty much boils down to what was stated in the estoppel

No, it doesn't. The estoppel would not show whether the contract had 2017 points in it or not, as Ron already mentioned.

 

[glmyers]

The contract rules all

Already mentioned but this pretty much boils down to what was stated in the estoppel

The estoppel merely identifies facts that will not be disputable should the transaction result in going to court for resolution. Even the finest estoppel letter will not contain an exhaustive list of facts involved in a timeshare transaction. It is the transfer agreement (contract) and what it says about the facts in the estoppel along with the other relevant facts that rules the transaction.

Some facts may not be directly addressed in the contract meaning a judge would need to rule on whether something is implied by the language that is present or some other document affects the interpretation of the contract. Nobody really wins except the lawyers if the transaction ends up before a judge so I like to think the seller will do the right thing in this case.

 

[decadude]

No, it doesn't. The estoppel would not show whether the contract had 2017 points in it or not, as Ron already mentioned.

my apology kinda crappy wyndham doesn't do this forgive my lack of knowledge on what wyndham will and will not put in the estoppel. I have looked at wyndham and honestly wouldn't know why anyone would want to own there the points are too expensive per the maintenance fee cost on what your getting.

you couldn't give me a wyndham timeshare