SDO vs. SVR trader

[CaliSunshine]

Hi all,

Newbie here. About to go to a timeshare presentation next week. Thankfully found TUG before the presentation.

Did get me thinking though, if I'm going to dip my toes into the timeshare world, what would be a better place to start: SDO or SVR?

The way I see it right now:

SDO: slightly higher MF. more StarOptions if we can find a true plat and potentially requal in the future (or if Marriott comes out with a new trading scheme). Could be a better trader as there are more 2BR lockouts available, which get more value traded individually. Rentable, if I stay up till midnight in March and get lucky.
SVR: slightly lower MF. Potentially better trading power if we pick up a 51/52 fixed. Otherwise slightly lower trading power. Are there fixed 51/52 2BR lockout weeks? If not, have to trade the 2BR as is. Fewer StarOptions if we go that route. Probably fewer MVC points if that's offered in the future also. Slightly higher initial cost.

Other option: KISS and just get a WKV. Much higher initial, higher MF, but mandatory in StarOptions so much less worry about trading weeks.

Am I looking at this right?

Thanks!

 

[SMHarman]

Good luck finding that SDO true Plat.

KISS.

I think I truly could sell my 2013 WKV purchase for a profit. That's a unicorn in timeshare terms and really reduces the cost of capital 'invested' in a timeshare.

 

[jabberwocky]

We own both SVR and SDO. My SDO can see a lot more in Interval than my SVR can.

if you are wanting SO I would go with a WKV as it will be hard to find a plat SDO - and then you have to requal.

 

[DannyTS]

Hi all,

Newbie here. About to go to a timeshare presentation next week. Thankfully found TUG before the presentation.

Did get me thinking though, if I'm going to dip my toes into the timeshare world, what would be a better place to start: SDO or SVR?

The way I see it right now:

SDO: slightly higher MF. more StarOptions if we can find a true plat and potentially requal in the future (or if Marriott comes out with a new trading scheme). Could be a better trader as there are more 2BR lockouts available, which get more value traded individually. Rentable, if I stay up till midnight in March and get lucky.
SVR: slightly lower MF. Potentially better trading power if we pick up a 51/52 fixed. Otherwise slightly lower trading power. Are there fixed 51/52 2BR lockout weeks? If not, have to trade the 2BR as is. Fewer StarOptions if we go that route. Probably fewer MVC points if that's offered in the future also. Slightly higher initial cost.

Other option: KISS and just get a WKV. Much higher initial, higher MF, but mandatory in StarOptions so much less worry about trading weeks.

Am I looking at this right?

Thanks!

Where and when do you want to travel? How many people will travel with you? We find the Vistana internal trading system great but Interval is more cost effective and with more options. Additionally, you can book larger units in Interval and it costs just slightly more. Interval requires more work though and you have to be more flexible, it is very difficult to get exchanges during peak times at the best resorts especially if you want larger units.

 

[CPNY]

Hi all,

Newbie here. About to go to a timeshare presentation next week. Thankfully found TUG before the presentation.

Did get me thinking though, if I'm going to dip my toes into the timeshare world, what would be a better place to start: SDO or SVR?

The way I see it right now:

SDO: slightly higher MF. more StarOptions if we can find a true plat and potentially requal in the future (or if Marriott comes out with a new trading scheme). Could be a better trader as there are more 2BR lockouts available, which get more value traded individually. Rentable, if I stay up till midnight in March and get lucky.
SVR: slightly lower MF. Potentially better trading power if we pick up a 51/52 fixed. Otherwise slightly lower trading power. Are there fixed 51/52 2BR lockout weeks? If not, have to trade the 2BR as is. Fewer StarOptions if we go that route. Probably fewer MVC points if that's offered in the future also. Slightly higher initial cost.

Other option: KISS and just get a WKV. Much higher initial, higher MF, but mandatory in StarOptions so much less worry about trading weeks.

Am I looking at this right?

Thanks!

Go with the WKV. As others have stated, you would have to be lucky to find that true platinum SDO and then retro it with a developer purchase. You’ll get more options if you just buy that WKV platinum. The other option is a SVV platinum units in the bella or key west phase. Lower buy in, decent maint fee ratio and trades pretty well. I’ve seen Maui Westin with that inventory. Sure it’s not the best trader but it’s good enough.

 

[SteelerGal]

SDO does not come w/ SOs. Only WKV or SVV.
Marriott is not allowing retro packages either so if you want SO, buy mandatory.

 

[CPNY]

SDO does not come w/ SOs. Only WKV or SVV.
Marriott is not allowing retro packages either so if you want SO, buy mandatory.

They ended the retro all together?

 

[JudyS]

...Are there fixed 51/52 2BR lockout weeks? If not, have to trade the 2BR as is. Fewer StarOptions if we go that route. Probably fewer MVC points if that's offered in the future also. Slightly higher initial cost.

Other option: KISS and just get a WKV. Much higher initial, higher MF, but mandatory in StarOptions so much less worry about trading weeks.

Am I looking at this right?

Thanks!

First, as to whether there are any fixed week 51/52 lock-outs at SVR, I'd say the answer is no. The only section I know of that has lock-outs at SVR is the Cascades section. The Cascades was sold all as "fixed/floating," which is not a true fixed week.

Second, and more importantly, if you want StarOptions, the only reasonable-priced choices are the Bella or Key West phases at Sheraton Vistana Villages, or buying WKV. The other resorts are all either "voluntary" (meaning, StarOptions do not transfer to resale owners) or they are not cost-effective for StarOptions.

Your post talks about trading (presumably,in Interval International) and also using StarOptions. These are two very different strategies. If you want something to trade in II, a resale SDO is very good. But, it won't give you any StarOptions. (And even if requalifications are allowed, they are almost never worth the cost.) Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella or Key West phases only) would give you StarOptions, and you can trade them in II. I'm not sure how well they trade, but I'm sure there are threads on this board discussing that.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Thank you all for the great suggestions!

We own both SVR and SDO. My SDO can see a lot more in Interval than my SVR can.

if you are wanting SO I would go with a WKV as it will be hard to find a plat SDO - and then you have to requal.

Would this also be true for a fixed 51/52? I read on an old thread that they have double the trading value of the floating weeks. I'm not sure how to quantify double, and I'm also worried that what they gain in value they suffer in flexibility due to the inability to lock off.

 

[CPNY]

Thank you all for the great suggestions!



Would this also be true for a fixed 51/52? I read on an old thread that they have double the trading value of the floating weeks. I'm not sure how to quantify double, and I'm also worried that what they gain in value they suffer in flexibility due to the inability to lock off.

I’d think it’s hard to figure out trading power since there is no published “currency” of what your week is worth. It’s based on what you can and cannot see. Even then I don’t think it is very reliable. With that being said, everyone seems to be in agreement that SDO is a good trader based on what people have reported seeing and exchanging. Because SDO Is known as a “mighty little trader” you’ll have an easier time getting out of it in the future if you have a platinum week. I’ve seen some pretty good exchanges with my SVV mandatory units. I was able to see the same things with SVV as my HRA unit. I would think the HRA units had more trade power but since VSE never deposited HRA in II Maybe it doesn’t have much trade power for that reason.

if you do pick up a strong trader, look for a lockout so you can get two weeks by splitting. If you want the best of both worlds, buy a mandatory unit and have star options attached. I’m not sure how well WKV trades, I know most people buy those for the low MF to SO ratio.

 

[CaliSunshine]

First, as to whether there are any fixed week 51/52 lock-outs at SVR, I'd say the answer is no. The only section I know of that has lock-outs at SVR is the Cascades section. The Cascades was sold all as "fixed/floating," which is not a true fixed week.

Second, and more importantly, if you want StarOptions, the only reasonable-priced choices are the Bella or Key West phases at Sheraton Vistana Villages, or buying WKV. The other resorts are all either "voluntary" (meaning, StarOptions do not transfer to resale owners) or they are not cost-effective for StarOptions.

Your post talks about trading (presumably,in Interval International) and also using StarOptions. These are two very different strategies. If you want something to trade in II, a resale SDO is very good. But, it won't give you any StarOptions. (And even if requalifications are allowed, they are almost never worth the cost.) Sheraton Vistana Villages (Bella or Key West phases only) would give you StarOptions, and you can trade them in II. I'm not sure how well they trade, but I'm sure there are threads on this board discussing that.

Thanks, if the 51/52 don't have lockoffs then I think the SDO would still be better trade value overall. The thing that worries me about SDO is that there are people all over the place saying it's a great trader on II (gets to Hawaii every other year or something like that), that it's a great renter during spring training, that MFs are some of the lowest in the network, and yet, people are still routinely paying to get rid of gold plus 1-52 2BR lockoff weeks. So what am I missing there? If it's so great, why aren't people asking for a little bit more money, or at least not paying to get out? Is it because since it's 1-52, you really need a script or a bot to reserve a good week? Or have the supply of good weeks on II dried up?

As for Staroptions if they were sure to keep the system the same I think I'd jump into WKV or SVV. The problem is with the merger, and with the experience with Bonvoy, I'm pretty convinced that the probabilities are something like 45% it's going to make mandatories worse, 45% it's going to keep mandatories the same, 10% it's going to make mandatories increase in value. So instead of risking 15K on a WKV mandatory now, if that really is the answer then why not wait a couple of years to get in when it's clearer what's going to happen. I don't think Marriott is at all incentivized to keep giving mandatories their "special status." My personal guess is, and this is a wild guess, that they'll allow a lot of free enrollment into DC with rejiggered point values for weeks (maybe charge something for resale), keep VSN and StarOptions available for the forseeable future, but as more and more stuff gets enrolled in DC VSN becomes correspondingly less and less valuable.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Where and when do you want to travel? How many people will travel with you? We find the Vistana internal trading system great but Interval is more cost effective and with more options. Additionally, you can book larger units in Interval and it costs just slightly more. Interval requires more work though and you have to be more flexible, it is very difficult to get exchanges during peak times at the best resorts especially if you want larger units.

Party of 3 right now, maybe 4-5 in the years to come. In terms of where I want to go, right now Hawaii's probably at the top of the list, because Southwest has made Hawaii airfares signficantly cheaper from California, but the problem with the "own where you want to go" is that if I were to plan out the next 5 years, let's say 2 or 3 of them would be in Hawaii, but of those 2 or 3, I'd guarantee you I'd want to be on different islands, so the home preference is not that valuable, and I'd hate paying the higher maintenance fees when trading "down" to somewhere else. If I were to guess for you right now, for the next 5 years it'd be 2-3 in Hawaii (different islands preferably), 1 each in (Scottsdale, Orlando, Cancun, and maybe Cabo again if my wife likes it next week?)

So overall you'd say the trades on Interval are better value, but more work than StarOptions.

 

[CPNY]

Thanks, if the 51/52 don't have lockoffs then I think the SDO would still be better trade value overall. The thing that worries me about SDO is that there are people all over the place saying it's a great trader on II (gets to Hawaii every other year or something like that), that it's a great renter during spring training, that MFs are some of the lowest in the network, and yet, people are still routinely paying to get rid of gold plus 1-52 2BR lockoff weeks. So what am I missing there? If it's so great, why aren't people asking for a little bit more money, or at least not paying to get out? Is it because since it's 1-52, you really need a script or a bot to reserve a good week? Or have the supply of good weeks on II dried up?

As for Staroptions if they were sure to keep the system the same I think I'd jump into WKV or SVV. The problem is with the merger, and with the experience with Bonvoy, I'm pretty convinced that the probabilities are something like 45% it's going to make mandatories worse, 45% it's going to keep mandatories the same, 10% it's going to make mandatories increase in value. So instead of risking 15K on a WKV mandatory now, if that really is the answer then why not wait a couple of years to get in when it's clearer what's going to happen. I don't think Marriott is at all incentivized to keep giving mandatories their "special status." My personal guess is, and this is a wild guess, that they'll allow a lot of free enrollment into DC with rejiggered point values for weeks (maybe charge something for resale), keep VSN and StarOptions available for the forseeable future, but as more and more stuff gets enrolled in DC VSN becomes correspondingly less and less valuable.

Idk, there are plenty of what ifs that can happen. I don’t see VSN going away soon, they can try to diminish it as much as they can but I. Don’t think they will. I’ve always maintained that having options to sell people is better than one program. The DC program has been around for a long time and they haven’t diminished their weeks system. If anything, they are now giving those owners priority access to vistana units. If they wanted everyone in DC they would try hard to get all of those weeks back as well. Doing away with VSN right now would turn a lot of potential buyers off. I’d pay a fee to enroll my mandatory weeks and have access to VSN or convert to DC, but I wouldn’t buy a developer purchase for that option. There are plenty of people who do not want to deal with buying more, but may pay just a bit to play. Who knows what will happen. It’s possible they continue with selling Flex And DC. They could offer conversation rates to turn DC into SO and SO into DC points. Then you get into the whole trust discussion with inventory pools. It’s a lot more complicated than just, the VSN is going away tomorrow.

 

[CPNY]

Party of 3 right now, maybe 4-5 in the years to come. In terms of where I want to go, right now Hawaii's probably at the top of the list, because Southwest has made Hawaii airfares signficantly cheaper from California, but the problem with the "own where you want to go" is that if I were to plan out the next 5 years, let's say 2 or 3 of them would be in Hawaii, but of those 2 or 3, I'd guarantee you I'd want to be on different islands, so the home preference is not that valuable, and I'd hate paying the higher maintenance fees when trading "down" to somewhere else. If I were to guess for you right now, for the next 5 years it'd be 2-3 in Hawaii (different islands preferably), 1 each in (Scottsdale, Orlando, Cancun, and maybe Cabo again if my wife likes it next week?)

So overall you'd say the trades on Interval are better value, but more work than StarOptions.

Based on you wanting Scottsdale, orlando, Cancun, and Cabo along with hawaii. It sounds like vistana Star options are what you need. 3 now but 4-5 in the future? I’d recommend paying up for WKV 148k SO. You’ll get access to great resorts in those locations with star option bookings and you’ll have enough points to take 2-3 trips in the year. The maint fee is the lowest. In the event of a complete dismantling of the VSN, you would hold a high property that would fair well in a joint program. Your other option is a SVV Plat 2 bedroom worth 95,700 options. Less options for a slightly higher maint fee. But you can get one now on eBay for $1650. You can exchange that into Hawaii (I’ve seen WKORVN) with that unit in interval. You may not see a 2 bedroom however.

if you want to spend the money upfront but have the most options for maint fee ratio.....WKV it is.
the other way is SVV plat lockout.

you’ll be able to easily get out of those if your future plans change. People always say “buy where you want to go” I disagree. My mantra is buy what you think will be easiest to exit...... as you noted earlier, you see SDO sitting for free with offerings to pay closing costs and still nothing. Only a small amount of people know (tuggers) and understand playing the exchange game. Almost everyone is aware of the advantages of owning star options.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Based on you wanting Scottsdale, orlando, Cancun, and Cabo along with hawaii. It sounds like vistana Star options are what you need. 3 now but 4-5 in the future? I’d recommend paying up for WKV 148k SO. You’ll get access to great resorts in those locations with star option bookings and you’ll have enough points to take 2-3 trips in the year. The maint fee is the lowest. In the event of a complete dismantling of the VSN, you would hold a high property that would fair well in a joint program. Your other option is a SVV Plat 2 bedroom worth 95,700 options. Less options for a slightly higher maint fee. But you can get one now on eBay for $1650. You can exchange that into Hawaii (I’ve seen WKORVN) with that unit in interval. You may not see a 2 bedroom however.

if you want to spend the money upfront but have the most options for maint fee ratio.....WKV it is.
the other way is SVV plat lockout.

you’ll be able to easily get out of those if your future plans change. People always say “buy where you want to go” I disagree. My mantra is buy what you think will be easiest to exit...... as you noted earlier, you see SDO sitting for free with offerings to pay closing costs and still nothing. Only a small amount of people know (tuggers) and understand playing the exchange game. Almost everyone is aware of the advantages of owning star options.

Thanks. I will take another look at SVV mandatory. Might be a good compromise between WKV and voluntaries in the event that the mandatory-voluntary spread becomes smaller due to Marriott's changes. Less money at risk.

So the consensus for SDO 2BR lockoffs is that they're still trading well in general? It's just that most people don't know how/don't bother to use them properly, but they haven't fundamentally depreciated in any major way?

Is it just me, or are things more in flux with M&A than usual? I was looking at Hilton the other day and it was like for my needs the strategy there is blindingly obvious: buy in Vegas and never ever stay in Vegas. Good points/MF ratio, and we do go to Vegas at least once a year, but why would I pay 150 a night to stay next to Circus Circus when I can pay 200 to stay at Aria and they'll comp 160 in food and beverage through Amex or Chase? But now, with them trying to sell to private equity I'm sure the new owners will figure out a way to eat away any residual savings left in the system.

 

[CPNY]

Thanks. I will take another look at SVV mandatory. Might be a good compromise between WKV and voluntaries in the event that the mandatory-voluntary spread becomes smaller due to Marriott's changes. Less money at risk.

So the consensus for SDO 2BR lockoffs is that they're still trading well in general? It's just that most people don't know how/don't bother to use them properly, but they haven't fundamentally depreciated in any major way?

Is it just me, or are things more in flux with M&A than usual? I was looking at Hilton the other day and it was like for my needs the strategy there is blindingly obvious: buy in Vegas and never ever stay in Vegas. Good points/MF ratio, and we do go to Vegas at least once a year, but why would I pay 150 a night to stay next to Circus Circus when I can pay 200 to stay at Aria and they'll comp 160 in food and beverage through Amex or Chase? But now, with them trying to sell to private equity I'm sure the new owners will figure out a way to eat away any residual savings left in the system.

I find hotels in Vegas relatively cheap and you don’t go for more than a long weekend. To me owning in Vegas would be just for low maint fee trader.

ive seen some good exchanges with all of my SVV units including the lockout. Whether or not I deposited both units or just the one bedroom I saw the same inventory, so I would have almost exclusively split it if I were to exchange. Truth be told I’ve only ever searched in exchange never actually exchanged with the lockout. I’ve used the star options for oceanfront one bedrooms in WKORVN at the 8 month mark. One in April and one in May. Summer months are prob impossible. But off peak at 8 months midnight it is doable.

I’ve also used it for ,lockouts at Atlantis in the summer months. The 95,700 SO was perfect for me. I’ve cut down and sold that this week along with an EOYO Plat 2 bedroom. Currently I just have a standard 2 bd plat and 2 one bedroom plat in SVV.

 

[SteelerGal]

Regarding SDO, it’s in Scottsdale. Lots to do in the area. There are many events that happen in the area from auto auctions, golfing and Spring Training and a ton of resorts. SDO, HICV, and Diamond resorts are all by each other. WKV is linked to the Westin. It’s truly a great area so we stay in Scottsdale for our annual family get together. Since I finally found an 2bdrm odd, it will be our destination for Spring Break 2021.

Most timeshares have relatively little resale value, so I wouldn’t be put off by how cheap you can pick up a week. Most ppl are utilizing their weeks and then sale to just rid themselves of the MF. This is how I picked up a couple of weeks. I’ve also paid more than $1 if a reservation was attached for a hard to get week. Nothing wrong w/ the resort at all.

 

[CaliSunshine]

Regarding SDO, it’s in Scottsdale. Lots to do in the area. There are many events that happen in the area from auto auctions, golfing and Spring Training and a ton of resorts. SDO, HICV, and Diamond resorts are all by each other. WKV is linked to the Westin. It’s truly a great area so we stay in Scottsdale for our annual family get together. Since I finally found an 2bdrm odd, it will be our destination for Spring Break 2021.

Most timeshares have relatively little resale value, so I wouldn’t be put off by how cheap you can pick up a week. Most ppl are utilizing their weeks and then sale to just rid themselves of the MF. This is how I picked up a couple of weeks. I’ve also paid more than $1 if a reservation was attached for a hard to get week. Nothing wrong w/ the resort at all.

Thanks for that info. Will talk to my wife after our timeshare presentation next week. I think I may have caught the timeshare bug, but my wife still hasn't. It's a delicate balancing act: if she gets too excited by the presentation that'll be a problem for me too.

 

[SteelerGal]

They ended the retro all together?

I couple of recent threads have indicated that there’s been a MVC hard stop. However it’s not at every location.

 

[CPNY]

I couple of recent threads have indicated that there’s been a MVC hard stop. However it’s not at every location.

I wonder which locations?

 

[SMHarman]

Thanks for that info. Will talk to my wife after our timeshare presentation next week. I think I may have caught the timeshare bug, but my wife still hasn't. It's a delicate balancing act: if she gets too excited by the presentation that'll be a problem for me too.

Just remember and remind her that Marriott Vacation Club, MVC, the salesperson and all sorts of other people take a commission on that presentation sale.

If there is one rule it is buy used and let someone else take the depreciation hit for driving it off the lot.

 

[DannyTS]

It's a delicate balancing act: if she gets too excited by the presentation that'll be a problem for me too.

If she gets too excited about the presentation you say that the sales person reminds you of an ex bf/gf's relative. Of course you have to be prepared to sleep on the couch that night.

 

[SteelerGal]

Someone just did a presentation at one of the Westin’s in Hawaii.