Scheduled Presentation 8/11/2019 - Grande Ocean

[controller1]

I think in the Vistana program, you guys call these Explorer Packages"? Basically they are a bounce-back offer for folks who don't buy on tour, to get them to come back on another tour to reconsider.

They were formerly called Explorer Packages. They are now also called Encore Packages.

In mid-July, I was offered the following Encore Package at Westin Riverfront Mountain Villas:

• 4 nights in a Studio Villa
• 18 months to use the package
• 100,000 Marriott Bonvoy points
• $199 down payment
• $994 payment at time of reservation

 

[kds4]

I was just reaponding to Steven's comment about the ability to lock off a resale week. As for the rest of your post, I own a resale week enrolled in the DC.

We also have a couple of enrolled resale weeks.

 

[kds4]

This could be the sales rep engaging in some of @davidvel 's Bountiful Speculation. Our first purchase with MVC was a bundle back in 2014. So we were not owners at the time. We did specifically ask about it, so I'm not sure if we would have been offered it independent of that. But they were willing to sell a bundle to us even though we were not MVC owners at the time. On our last sales presentation back in April 2018 (and the only one we've done since we bought our bundle in July 2014), the only thing we were offered was a bundle. They didn't even try to pitch a pure points package.

A few months after our April 2018 presentation, when last summer's Amnesty promo was launched in May or June of 2018, they contacted us to offer that to us to enroll our EOY MOC week. Since they wouldn't cut the required point buy to 1500 points (since I was really only enrolling half a week), I wasn't willing to buy 3000 points just to enroll an EOY. I told them we would wait until we acquired a second EOY to consider it again. He then said if we pass, just recognize that that would probably be the last time they ever offered Amnesty to MVC weeks owners, because starting in 2019, they were going to be focusing on integrating the Westin/Sheraton owners and most promotions would be directed to them. Well they did offer it again this past spring until 7/31. (We now have a second EOY, but we didn't close in time to meet the 2/28 cutoff for the just-ended Amnesty.)

Even back in 2014 when we bought our bundle, I seem to recall the sales rep said something to the effect of, "We're not going to be offering this bundle option much longer, so you are smart to do this now." I also don't see why they couldn't sell a bundle to a Westin or Vistana owner. It would work just as well for them as it did for us back in 2014 as a way to enter the MVC system. Makes no sense to me why they would limit it in that way.

Who knows? Maybe this time the sky will actually fall, but the Chicken Little's in MVC Sales have been saying this stuff for quite a while.

And right now they're 2 for $3.

 

[JIMinNC]

My take on the Encore package price. 200 bonvoy points gets you five days at a nice property so figure the equivalent of about $1500 without paying taxes. The three nights at GO are worth another $1000. 2300 VC points gets you a full week at a lot of places. I'd guess it is equivalent to about $2500 to you are getting a good deal.........however, do you need to pay $3299 to get $5000? It sure lures you in.

I can't argue with your valuation of 200K Bonvoy points or the GO nights, so the total of those two are $2500. But I think the 2300 VC points should be valued at what you could rent the same amount of points for on VPE, so maybe $0.65/point max. That values the 2300 points at just under $1500, so that would imply the value is more like $4000 than $5000. The only caveat to that is the VPE rented points are only usable in one use year, but the 2300 VC bonus points have a two-year window, so they are more valuable than VPE points. Hard to put a $$ value on that, though. So, $4000 is probably the minimum you should value it at, and maybe it might be worth a little more due to the 2-year usage window.

 

[Big Matt]

I'm looking at it the opposite way. Here's an example. Surfwatch 3BR garden view for five nights checking in on Sunday, April 26 costs you 1875 VC points. Paying cash via Marriott web site costs you $2278 plus tax. I'm cheap and try to do the Sunday - Thursday to maximize my points. I'm sure there are other examples. Your example is probably the worst way to use those free points.

 

[Fasttr]

I can't argue with your valuation of 200K Bonvoy points or the GO nights, so the total of those two are $2500. But I think the 2300 VC points should be valued at what you could rent the same amount of points for on VPE, so maybe $0.65/point max. That values the 2300 points at just under $1500, so that would imply the value is more like $4000 than $5000. The only caveat to that is the VPE rented points are only usable in one use year, but the 2300 VC bonus points have a two-year window, so they are more valuable than VPE points. Hard to put a $$ value on that, though. So, $4000 is probably the minimum you should value it at, and maybe it might be worth a little more due to the 2-year usage window.

I'm looking at it the opposite way. Here's an example. Surfwatch 3BR garden view for five nights checking in on Sunday, April 26 costs you 1875 VC points. Paying cash via Marriott web site costs you $2278 plus tax. I'm cheap and try to do the Sunday - Thursday to maximize my points. I'm sure there are other examples. Your example is probably the worst way to use those free points.

2 views from different angles. Jim's is based on what it would cost to acquire those points (cost based) and Matt's is based on what value could be gotten for those points if he had them (end use based). Both valid, just different ways to look at putting a value on the transaction.

 

[JIMinNC]

I'm looking at it the opposite way. Here's an example. Surfwatch 3BR garden view for five nights checking in on Sunday, April 26 costs you 1875 VC points. Paying cash via Marriott web site costs you $2278 plus tax. I'm cheap and try to do the Sunday - Thursday to maximize my points. I'm sure there are other examples. Your example is probably the worst way to use those free points.

As Fasttr noted, I'm not talking about using the points by renting the points to someone else to get the money. I agree that's a poor use of DC points (unless you have more than you can use). What I'm saying is the economic value of something is what it would cost to buy the exact same thing somewhere else. Imbedded somewhere in the OP's pitched $3299 Encore cost is the value of those DC points. What I'm saying is, if someone wanted 2300 DC points, they could go on VPE and rent them for maybe $1400 to $1500 instead of buying the Encore package, so that is the maximum value that should be attributed to them in evaluating the package. In other words, you could still exchange those 2300 points that cost you $1400 to $1500 on VPE for that week worth $2500 in your original example, but they would only have cost you the $1400 to $1500, not $2500. IMHO, what should be evaluated is not what value you can get out of that 2300 points, but if it is more cost effective to acquire them as part of the Encore or just to buy them on VPE.

 

[GregT]

Steven, that is great information -- really interesting to read. I will be curious to see what finally gets rolled out and then we will dissect it. Thanks again!

Best,

Greg

 

[davidvel]

As Fasttr noted, I'm not talking about using the points by renting the points to someone else to get the money. I agree that's a poor use of DC points (unless you have more than you can use). What I'm saying is the economic value of something is what it would cost to buy the exact same thing somewhere else. Imbedded somewhere in the OP's pitched $3299 Encore cost is the value of those DC points. What I'm saying is, if someone wanted 2300 DC points, they could go on VPE and rent them for maybe $1400 to $1500 instead of buying the Encore package, so that is the maximum value that should be attributed to them in evaluating the package. In other words, you could still exchange those 2300 points that cost you $1400 to $1500 on VPE for that week worth $2500 in your original example, but they would only have cost you the $1400 to $1500, not $2500. IMHO, what should be evaluated is not what value you can get out of that 2300 points, but if it is more cost effective to acquire them as part of the Encore or just to buy them on VPE.

Jim, You'd make a bad salesman with this example.

They never explain what it would cost to acquire what they are selling elsewhere, only what "value" you can get for what they are selling. As you point out, they both get you the same thing (except the 2yrs), just at different acquisition costs.

 

[Big Matt]

As Fasttr noted, I'm not talking about using the points by renting the points to someone else to get the money. I agree that's a poor use of DC points (unless you have more than you can use). What I'm saying is the economic value of something is what it would cost to buy the exact same thing somewhere else. Imbedded somewhere in the OP's pitched $3299 Encore cost is the value of those DC points. What I'm saying is, if someone wanted 2300 DC points, they could go on VPE and rent them for maybe $1400 to $1500 instead of buying the Encore package, so that is the maximum value that should be attributed to them in evaluating the package. In other words, you could still exchange those 2300 points that cost you $1400 to $1500 on VPE for that week worth $2500 in your original example, but they would only have cost you the $1400 to $1500, not $2500. IMHO, what should be evaluated is not what value you can get out of that 2300 points, but if it is more cost effective to acquire them as part of the Encore or just to buy them on VPE.

I get your point. I was assuming that you valued the points based on what you could get from renting them out (not buying them).

 

[NTP66]

Had a fantastic presentation and with a very personable sales person. We were there for 3.5 hours as I had lots of questions. They brought in a second guy that seems to know a lot more about what’s going on in the background. Looked younger but seemed like he had be there a while.

I’m still trying to process my thoughts of the meeting and will write more tonight. The main thing I’m trying to decide on is the Encore package. This was a new offer they threw at me and it’s tempting.

$3299 for 4 Days/3 Nights at Grande Ocean with 200k Bonvoy points and 2300 Destination Plus points good for 2 years. This was a new Encore offering that was recently approved. They have a couple other ones that were lower but this one caught my eye, especially if one is contemplating purchasing more points in the future and if you did it in conjunction with a bundle/hybrid purchase.

However bundles are supposedly going away by the end of the year. Also, the “Amnesty” program is gone as of 7/31.

My parents were at Grande Ocean last week, and didn't have quite the same experience. The first two salespeople offered 4 days/3 nights at GO for $1599, and 1500 DP, good for two years. They wanted to combine everything in 2021 so the entire family could come down in two units. After a few hours, the third salesman came in and basically said that everything they were told was wrong and that they wouldn't honor what the other two stated. Needless to say, they were furious with both the entire process and how much time was wasted because of this.

 

[JIMinNC]

My parents were at Grande Ocean last week, and didn't have quite the same experience. The first two salespeople offered 4 days/3 nights at GO for $1599, and 1500 DP, good for two years. They wanted to combine everything in 2021 so the entire family could come down in two units. After a few hours, the third salesman came in and basically said that everything they were told was wrong and that they wouldn't honor what the other two stated. Needless to say, they were furious with both the entire process and how much time was wasted because of this.

Not sure what you mean by "They wanted to combine everything in 2021..." and exactly what did the first salespeople promise that the third said wouldn't work?

 

[NTP66]

Not sure what you mean by "They wanted to combine everything in 2021..." and exactly what did the first salespeople promise that the third said wouldn't work?

That they could combine the 4 days and points for a full week at GO either next year or 2021. They received virtually the same offer back in 2016 and opted for it, so this wouldn’t exactly have been new territory.

 

[JIMinNC]

That they could combine the 4 days and points for a full week at GO either next year or 2021. They received virtually the same offer back in 2016 and opted for it, so this wouldn’t exactly have been new territory.

Why did they say that couldn't be done? Would the 1500 points have been enough for the three additional nights? Why couldn't they make two reservations? The 4-night package then a 3-night points reservation.

 

[NTP66]

Why did they say that couldn't be done? Would the 1500 points have been enough for the three additional nights? Why couldn't they make two reservations? The 4-night package then a 3-night points reservation.

They said they wouldn't combine the two consecutively, allowing for the full week to be used on one reservation. I assume that 1500 points is good enough for the balance on a GO Courtyard/Oceanside/Whatever they want to call non-oceanfront today unit.

 

[JIMinNC]

They said they wouldn't combine the two consecutively, allowing for the full week to be used on one reservation. I assume that 1500 points is good enough for the balance on a GO Courtyard/Oceanside/Whatever they want to call non-oceanfront today unit.

I would agree that they couldn't be combined into a single reservation - it would have to be two - but then when room assignment time comes, usually they have been able to allow both reservations to be in the same unit.

 

[NTP66]

I guess so, but this is nothing more than bait and switch given how the first two salespeople confirmed what they wanted to do (and have done in the past).