Scenes From A Sales Update

[AlmostRetired]

I feel like a pager in a world of smartphones. In all the sales updates I have attended in my 26 years of ownership, no one at MVCI has given me a compelling reason to make the investment based on how we vacation by using, trading or renting our units. If all my resale weeks were legacy weeks and my point total from those weeks were what they would be enrolled, that is a different story. I am envious of resale legacy week owners with a significant point total from those weeks. You will be able to continue to cost effectively adapt to Marriott’s changes. Me, I will ride the rent, trade or use week train to as far as it takes me and divest when I have to get off. Thanks for discussions like this. It makes me feel like a smart pager.

 

[bazzap]

I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?

You can choose from any resort with the MVC Destination Club Trust (Pure) Points Programme, subject to availability.
For some resorts, e.g. all the European ones and Caribbean ones the Trust owns no inventory there.
So to book with Points you need a Weeks owner to have released that inventory by electing their enrolled Weeks for Points.
Yes, you can book these, but it is likely to be more challenging especially in peak periods.

 

[davidvel]

I’m asking as a Westin Flex owner; is there a pure points product in MVC where you own just points and can choose from any MVC resort, or from a select group of resorts, at some preferred reservation window (e.g. 12 months out)?

Depends on your definition of "Pure." Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program. Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets." But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow. At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.

 

[iowaguy09]

Depends on your definition of "Pure." Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program. Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets." But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow. At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.

Good point, davidvel (no pun intended, haha). By “pure” I meant that only points were “owned” and used to make reservations and nothing is tied to week(s) or season ownership. Of course, the reservation pool might be potentially restricted by some means.

 

[iowaguy09]

I enjoy reading the speculation here and in numerous other posts (including one thread I initiated in the Vistana forum) regarding the MVC/Vistana final product. I would hate to be on that committee figuring this out.

My latest thought is what if the Sheraton and Vistana properties (assume these are the lower value properties) were rolled directly into MVC and made open to everyone, but Westin and Aventuras properties were held out as a more upscale option similar to the Ritz properties are? This would create a new special group within MVC that could trade down, but everyone else would have to trade up to with some extra point/incentive mechanism. I’m sure this would still make many owners angry out there. Just tossing out some more conversation sparks.

 

[Dean]

Depends on your definition of "Pure." Technically the DC is an overlay on the weeks program. Despite comments to the contrary, there is nothing in the MVC weeks program that allows any segregated pools of weeks inventory, or different reservation "buckets." But don't worry, Marriott DC trust has essentially ignored these legal requirements and somehow reserves the weeks it wants, without following the same requirements other owners have to follow. At least that's how many Tuggers have described the reservation process.

I'm not sure I'd agree they've ignored the legal requirements but I'd love to hear more specifics on the issue.

 

[bbodb1]

Somewhere in this thread, there should be a Billy Joel reference....

 

[dansimms]

I wonder how many of the properties in this soon to be expanded network have plans for physical expansion? Perhaps any new construction could be universally put into a broadly spanning trust that would be available to Vistana as well as Marriott Owners. It would be similar to Grande Vista, where some units are part of Florida Club, but not all. That would seem to have less legal entanglements, since it would be expansion, post aquisition of Vistana.

 

[rthib]

Somewhere in this thread, there should be a Billy Joel reference....

I'll meet you any time you want

 

[iowaguy09]

I'll meet you any time you want

“…Eddie could never afford to live that kind of life…” said the TUG’er to his friend wanting to buy direct from the TS developer at a sales presentation.

 

[zentraveler]

I feel like a pager in a world of smartphones.

Best first line ever.

 

[bbodb1]

I'll meet you any time you want

Bottle of red?
Bottle of white?

 

[davidvel]

I'm not sure I'd agree they've ignored the legal requirements but I'd love to hear more specifics on the issue.

I don't want to take this thread off the rails any more than it has, but I challenge anyone to post (in a new thread), any language from their resort's governing documents that permits a weeks owner to start a club that consolidates their weeks and then sells interests in the club, all while separating their weeks inventory out from other owners for reservation purposes, with special reservation procedures and priority.

If so, I'm starting a new Club.

 

[Dean]

I don't want to take this thread off the rails any more than it has, but I challenge anyone to post (in a new thread), any language from their resort's governing documents that permits a weeks owner to start a club that consolidates their weeks and then sells interests in the club, all while separating their weeks inventory out from other owners for reservation purposes, with special reservation procedures and priority.

If so, I'm starting a new Club.

Done. New Thread

 

[kds4]

Somewhere in this thread, there should be a Billy Joel reference....

Well, our owner's update was held in an Italian restaurant ...

 

[Lansdowne]

So, we went to our first update in 3 years at NCV. Not high pressure. Discussion focused on 2022 changes. Main points included:

1. New level above Chairman's Club rolling out in 2022.
2. No Grandfathering To New Level.
3. New level akin to Bonvoy Ambassador.
4. Reciprocity for new MVCI level of Ambassador to give Bonvoy Ambassador status (in negotiation with Marriott Hotels).
5. Minimum ownership requirement for new level 17k DC points. (Seems like an odd number, but whatever.)
6. Key benefits of new MVCI 'Ambassador' level include - 6 extra months of banking beyond Chairman's Club, 1 extra month for single night booking (14 months), 30% last minute discount (60 days or less) applicable to all properties within the MVCI portfolio, not just Marriot Vacation Clubs (when those additional brands become bookable in 2022).
7. Non-MVCI owners will be required to purchase a minimum number of points to 'play' in the MVCI portfolio (other than their existing ownership brand).
8. Ending enrollment opportunities for externally purchased weeks (date TBD) because the focus will be on selling to Non-MVCI owners (not remaining unenrolled weeks owners).
9. A points buyback option/program is coming, (but it is unlikely to be better than just selling the points resale and letting MVCI ROFR them - "you'll end up with more money in your pocket reselling yourself than selling back directly to MVCI's buyback option/program" - Not my words).
10. There were a few other items like new luxury collection offerings, new tour options, etc.
11. $250 Visa Card or 40K MRPs for attending.
12. One time bonus of 4,000 DPs with 36 month expiration included with a purchase of 2k or more points.
13. Prices rolled back to $11.68 pp until 6/30/21.
14. With a minimum purchase of 1k points at $11.68 locks that price for one year for any additional purchases.
14. Purchases of 2k or more points at $11.68 locks that price for 3 years for future purchases.

How does that stack up against what others are being told by the same (and other) sales centers?

First Thank You for the posting - it is so important that we all share any information that we receive during these presentations. Usually what Marriott/Vistana say you generally question until a dollar figure is attached to it. In my opinion, it makes complete sense that they are coming out with a new level. I think that level is focused on folks like myself that own both Marriott and Vistana properties. We are currently at the Presidential Level - if Marriott were to assign a value to our Vistana Properties in the Marriott system and truly merged them together we would have enough points to reach the current Chairman level. The 17K number seems like an odd number but I bet they have run all the algorithms and that number places many people just short enough of the target to require additional purchases. We find little advantage in being at the Presidential Level except for the additional time limits - which I have to admit came in handy during the pandemic.

BTW, I don't understand you number 7 - I thought you had to own MVCI property to use the portfolio.

Again Thanks for the post!

 

[Lansdowne]

Marriott setup their points program a lot better than Vistana did. Vistana has theirs so segregated it isn't funny. Westin Flex, Sheraton Flex, Nanea, WSJ, Aventuras. Marriott has one program, you can book any of the resorts either through the trust or the MVC Exchange company. Nice and clean. I suspect this is why Marriott is having such a hard time figuring out how to integrate the programs.

I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.

 

[Lansdowne]

There is a pure points option for MVC. You can chose from any resort in the system but it's subject to availability. Some resorts have moe inventory in points than other. For some the entire inventory is points and for some it's mostly in the weeks side and to reserve on points weeks owners have to elect points from that season. From a practical standpoint anyone with points (pure points AKA Trust points or Destination points (weeks owners who are enrolled and elect for points) can reserve the available inventory on the points side.

You have to work the system. You don't have to use the points system if you merely use your week in exchange for another week. But you have to convert that week to points to get maximum usage. In the old days you could make some nice trade when you traded just weeks - you get lucky now and then but it is much harder to do and sometimes you get much less value. Right now you need points to compliment your weeks if they have less value than they used to in the system. I guess at some level it makes sense but the sales pitch from many years ago that you could trade anywhere with your week has many caveats.

 

[dioxide45]

I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.

The merger between ILG and Marriott Vacations Worldwide was announced in May 2018. Nanea opened in 2017, the Sheraton Flex (Flex Holdings LLC) program was declared in Orange County Florida in March 2015. Westin Flex (Flex Collection LLC) was declared in November 2017. I don't know exactly when they started Westin Aventuras in Mexico, but it was around the time they reopened the Westin Los Cabos. That was in 2017. So as you can see, every single one of these flex programs predates the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Even if they did occur shortly after the merge (which they didn't), plans for these programs would have been long in-flight prior to the merger. Vistana is 100% responsible for the fragmentation of their flex programs.

I also don't understand the comment about going to your home resort. Just about every system was and is very easy to use if you go to your home resort. What makes using your home resort harder with Marriott. Certainly buying and owning certain types of weeks (fixed vs. floating) can make things more difficult, but that exists in both the Marriott and Vistana system.

 

[SueDonJ]

I disagree (in part), we own Vistana property with deeds in Hawaii and Palm Desert. It was and still is an easy system to use if you go to your home resort- much easier than our Marriott Properties. After the merger all these Vistana point programs were created - I put that mess on Marriott not Vistana.

>>April 30, 2018
(Reuters) - Marriott Vacations Worldwide Corp VAC.N will buy timeshare operator ILG Inc ILG.O for $4.7 billion, the companies said on Monday, grabbing the chance to merge operations and brands spun out of Starwood and Marriott hotels.<<

2017 ILG Annual Report

Why blame Marriott? The 2017 report makes reference to Vistana's affiliation with SPG as well as the Sheraton Flex and Westin Aventuras programs, all prior to Marriott's acquisition of ILG in 2018. What are, "all these points programs" related to Vistana that Marriott implemented after it acquired ILG?

 

[SueDonJ]

The merger between ILG and Marriott Vacations Worldwide was announced in May 2018. Nanea opened in 2017, the Sheraton Flex (Flex Holdings LLC) program was declared in Orange County Florida in March 2015. Westin Flex (Flex Collection LLC) was declared in November 2017. I don't know exactly when they started Westin Aventuras in Mexico, but it was around the time they reopened the Westin Los Cabos. That was in 2017. So as you can see, every single one of these flex programs predates the merger with Marriott Vacations Worldwide. Even if they did occur shortly after the merge (which they didn't), plans for these programs would have been long in-flight prior to the merger. Vistana is 100% responsible for the fragmentation of their flex programs.

I also don't understand the comment about going to your home resort. Just about every system was and is very easy to use if you go to your home resort. What makes using your home resort harder with Marriott. Certainly buying and owning certain types of weeks (fixed vs. floating) can make things more difficult, but that exists in both the Marriott and Vistana system.

As usual, you're quicker to the draw.

 

[CKMason]

We attended a MVCI sales presentation at the Palm Desert location in April 2021. We have 15,400 Destination Club points. We also have 177,000 Westin Flex points. We were "informed" that the Westin points would convert to 7500 Destination Club points when the joint program rolled out. Thus we would end up with 22,900 MVCI points. HOWEVER, the kicker was that the new level above Chairman would be 25,000 points and we would need to purchase another 2250 points [Destination Club points only sold in 250 point increments.] We were offered about 4 different ways to make this point number, all costing between $24,000 to $26,000 to which we said no. Having decided against spending that kind of $$$, I only remember that one of the benefits of the new tier was reservations 18 months out, which is useless to us as it seems most of our vacations made way ahead have to be modified or changed due to circumstances (covid19, family, etc.). I do remember that the new tier was to also tie to the Titanium tier in Marriott, also useless as I have Lifetime Titanium.

 

[Mroze]

We attended a presentation at Marriott Summit Watch [MSW] on Wed Jun 23rd, 2021.

Here is a summary of what we heard.

1. There will be a new level called "Ambassador". New program rollout expected CY-Q1-2022.
2. Unfortunate that they picked the name "Ambassador" as it has nothing to do with the Bonvoy program.
3. To qualify for the new level one would need to own 20000-DCP.
4. Existing "Chairmans" members would NOT be grandfathered in. Currently 80% of Chairmans own over 20K-DCP.
5. Hybrid Marriott-Owners [Vistana-Elite] Combined-Status would NOT be considered.
6. E.g, Marriott-Chairmans + Vistana-5-Star-Elite would result in Marriott-Charimans [NOT Ambassador].
7. Current price $14.94. Major price point increase coming post Jun-30. Yeah right.
8. Purchase 2K for $12.70 [15%-Discount]. 3K for $11.95 [20%-Discount]. 4K for $11.21 [25%-Discount].
9. Bundle purchase offered [Grande-Vista 2BR-EY-PLAT 2775-DCP for $11700] + 2K-DCP [~$25.3K]. Total $37K for 4775-DCP [$7.76/DCP]
10. Bundled packages [Deeded-Enrolled-Week + DCP-Points] will no longer be offered by end of this year.
11. Purchase-Incentive: 200%-Bonus. Purchase 2K-DCP receive 4K-DCP [1-Time-Bonus: @ $0.60-MF = $2400-Value] valid for 3-Years. OR 150K Bonvoy-Points.
12. Presentation-Incentive: 40K-Bonvoy OR 400-DCP OR $250 Ruth Chris-GC OR $225-VISA-Card.

We turned down the offer as we have seen better Bundled-Packages with lower $/DCP.
This could get us to 20K-DCP, however, we are not convinced that getting to Ambassador would be value we would benefit from.
When I asked the rep to explain the delta benefits between Charimans & Ambassador he struggled to provide examples with conviction.
One thing he mentioned that intrigued me was that Ambassadors-Level would have access to St. Regis Residences [15-20 International-Properties ]. Also found this [St. Regis Res].
This would be similar to current Marriott owners access to 6 Ritz Properties.

UPDATE
Vistana
Asked multiple ways if our Vistana-Ownership and Status would be considered. The rep insisted that "NO" the merger was ONE-WAY. Marriott purchased Vistana, thus Marriott owners would have access to Vistana properties via the DCP-System. However, Vistana-Owners would need to continue to exchange via INTERVAL [free into Marriott-Properties]. Asked him where the ONE-WAY inventory would come from and he gave examples of Explorer-Collection [Cruises/Tours], Defaulted, ROFR-Purchases, Unsold inventory.

Hyatt
Asked about Hyatt and the rep informed us that noting was being considered for Hyatt-Owners yet.

Welk
He did mention something about Marriott owners getting access to Welk properties in the future.

 

[bazzap]

So one sales presentation says 17,000 Points for the “new” level, another says 20,000?
A very good reason just to wait and see what, if any, new level is formally announced!

 

[davidvel]

We attended a presentation at Marriott Summit Watch [MSW] on Wed Jun 23rd, 2021.

Here is a summary of what we heard.

1. There will be a new level called "Ambassador". New program rollout expected CY-Q1-2022.
2. Unfortunate that they picked the name "Ambassador" as it has nothing to do with the Bonvoy program.
3. To qualify for the new level one would need to own 20000-DCP.
4. Existing "Chairmans" members would NOT be grandfathered in. Currently 80% of Chairmans own over 20K-DCP.
5. Hybrid Marriott-Owners [Vistana-Elite] Combined-Status would NOT be considered.
6. E.g, Marriott-Chairmans + Vistana-5-Star-Elite would result in Marriott-Charimans [NOT Ambassador].
7. Current price $14.94. Major price point increase coming post Jun-30. Yeah right.
8. Purchase 2K for $12.70 [15%-Discount]. 3K for $11.95 [20%-Discount]. 4K for $11.21 [25%-Discount].
9. Bundle purchase offered [Grande-Vista 2BR-EY-PLAT 2775-DCP for $11700] + 2K-DCP [~$25.3K]. Total $37K for 4775-DCP [$7.76/DCP]
10. Bundled packages [Deeded-Enrolled-Week + DCP-Points] will no longer be offered by end of this year.

We turned down the offer as we have seen better Bundled-Packages with lower $/DCP.
This could get us to 20K-DCP, however, we are not convinced that getting to Ambassador would be value we would benefit from.
When I asked the rep to explain the delta benefits between Charimans & Ambassador he struggled to provide examples with conviction.
One thing he mentioned that intrigued me was that Ambassadors-Level would have access to St. Regis Residences [15-20 International-Properties ]. Also found this [St. Regis Res].
This would be similar to current Marriott owners access to 6 Ritz Properties.

And then there will be a new level, Emperor, then Great Leader, then Commander of the Universe, all of which require another $10,000+ out of your pocket. Each new level will be described as making your prior level and ownership junk and worthless, and the cycle continues.