Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

[Sou13]

Who is Cliff Hagberg?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Cliff-Hagberg/620901308

http://twitter.com/capeguitarguy/status/1691771781

When you search the Massachusetts Corporate Database for "Hagberg" you find that HAGBERG REALTY, INC. was voluntarily dissolved on 9/18,2008.

 

[Fig]

In recent days I was contacted by Outfield Marketing to tell me that a "mistake had been made in the calculation of points" and they wanted me to call and "explain" the situation to me. I didn't call back, since I wanted to give Cliff Hagberg (whoever he is) and Greg Hughes (who doesn't respond to mail or answer his email) a chance to acknowledge my cancellation and credit my account.
I filed a grievance with the Mass. AG in the meantime.

Then decided to call Outfield Marketing in Texas. When the woman told me about the "mistake" I interrupted and said that I had canceled the order and should be credited with a refund. She said, "sure, I'll put through the credit to your account today." No argument, no objection, in fact she was very pleasant. I received the credit a couple of days later, much to my disbelief and pleasant surprise.

I told her that I cancelled and no one responded. She said the "wrong address" was on the cancellation paperwork and that was probably why.

I then received a somewhat contradictory letter from my credit card company who said that the vendor did not credit me with certain "non refundable fees" related to the sale. They said I could challenge the vendor directly... which I will do if necessary... however so far the full refund appears on my statement and I don't remember seeing any "nonrefundable" fees either in writing or mentioned in my presentation, but that isn't surprising.

The other significant info is that whoever New England Vacation Sales Management is (supposedly Cliff Hagberg), the address on Haws Avenue in Hyannis exists, though it is correctly spelled Hawes. Mail is delivered there, but as I found out nothing happens. And nowhere have I seen a phone number for his business, not from my late 2008 "newsletter" or anywhere else. These guys are masters at hiding, getting your money, then hiding again forever. If Mr. Hagberg is such a successful businessman, why doesn't he or the Sandcastle have a web site yet, and how do you service your customers without a valid address or phone?

At this stage I advise you to consider what is my new personal policy. Don't go near anyone who represents a business called New England Vacation Sales Management or Outfield Marketing.

Strummer

Strummer, Festiva and Cliff regularly read these posts. Festiva is has complaints to AGs in several states. It is possible they credited you based on your board post figuring they would undo one of the many tangles they seem to have gotten caught up in. Good to hear of your success!

For the record, Cliff does claim to own a condo resale business on the Cape....but I looked at the address, and it appears to be a PO Box. He seems to have had an okay rep up until his involvement with Festiva and Outfield. Outfield is a total mystery. A president that works as a real estate agent in MD with an address that does not seem to exist. A headquarters in TX that is a toolshed in an asphalt parking lot assessed at less than it cost for a Festiva adventure club membership. How these guys pulled off a 2.5 million dollar loan is beyond me---except that they did it at a time when if you had a pulse you could get a loan. It looks like they thought they could sell memberships to pay it off...but I don't know why people would buy worthless memberships on points when you can pick up a deeded week on the Cape for a dollar on Ebay. This whole scheme looks like house of cards worth less than the toolshed in TX.

Good luck to all!

 

[ChrisH]

In the Public Offering Statement it gives NEVS, LLC address in Denton, TX. On some other documents it has 93 Haws Avenue Hyannis, MA plus the PO Box.
Chris

 

[Rambler65]

The way the Festiva guys are working is at a desk in front as you check in, they try to hurd the owners. Since we were in at 6:00, we never saw them. After they get thru the appointments set up at check in, they call owners room to room and set up appointments for a "owners meeting," which turns out to be a sales pitch for Festiva. Most people around Sandcastle are walking out, or leaving very mad after a couple of hours. Haven't talked to anyone who converted yet, although one guy was ready but another owner talked him out of it. Hopefully if they don't meet with much success, they will go away and leave us alone.


Be for warned if you come to Sandcastle and sign up for a owners meeting, it will be a high pitched sales meeting from a bunch of sleezeballs who want to steal your deeded property. You will be lied to at the meeting about how great their point system is. Don't fall for it. Google Festiva, see how badly run that company really is. You won't find many (if any) good write ups about Festiva.

 

[ChrisH]

Well hopefully they will complain about it to the AG

Hopefully some of the owners, even those that opt out - run away - will still be able to file complaints with the AG based on MGL 93A Consumer Protection - Chapter 93A: Section 2. Unfair practices; legislative intent; rules and regulations

Section 2. (a) Unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful. (includes fraud, deceit, misrepresentation of facts, pressure sales tactics)

RE04R08: Chapter 93A, Consumer Protection and Business Regulation for Real Estate Brokers and Salespersons

V. ILLEGAL PRACTICES UNDER 93A
A. Fraudulent or willful intent need not be proven.

B. Heightens licensee responsibility for statements and omissions

C. Licensees responsible for everything they know

D. Grey area of responsibility is what a licensee should have known

E. "Puffing’ is now illegal. 93A does not distinguish between opinion and fact.

F. Other illegal actions and misrepresentations

1. Any oppressive or otherwise unconscionable act or statement

2. Failure to comply with laws meant for the protection of the public's health, safety or welfare

3. Fraud or misrepresentation such as misstatements of facts in negotiations that lead to a contract
4. Seller provides a licensee false information and licensee relates this to buyer, without identifying seller as licensee's sole source of information, then broker is liable.

5. Making false claims about a property's construction, durability, safety or strength

6. Making false claims concerning the ease with which a property can be repaired or maintained

7. Making false claims about financing terms or availability

8. Substituting something different than what is advertised ("bait and switch")

9. Offering guarantees without disclosing the nature and extent of the guarantees

10. A broker may be held liable for a misstatement in advertising even if the broker later informs a prospective buyer of the error.

11. Claims or representations concerning any real or personal property which directly, or by omission, serves to deceive a buyer in any material respect.

12. Failing to disclose to a tenant or prospective tenant any fact that may have influenced the tenant not to enter into the transaction

13. Even though the true facts are subsequently made known to the buyer, the law is violated if the first contact or interview is secured by deception.

G. Generally, a violation of M.G.L. c. 142A (Regulation of Home Improvement Contractors) is automatically a violation of M.G.L. c. 93A,

"A practice may be deceptive if it reasonably could be found to have caused the plaintiff to act differently than he otherwise would have acted...."

"It is an unfair and deceptive act under Chapter 93A for real estate sellers to affirmatively misrepresent the truth if they are aware of it."

Fraudulent acts include false advertising; high-pressure sales tactics; “bait and switch schemes” (where one product or service is offered but another actually delivered); billing fraud, and use of contract language that misleads consumers.

The Law
Both Massachusetts and United States laws prohibit the use of "unfair or deceptive" practices by businesses. These practices are regulated by the Federal Trade Commission at the federal level and by the Attorney General's Office of Consumer Protection at the state level.
Both the federal and state laws prohibit a series of specific practices and, in addition, prohibit any other practice that is determined to be unfair or deceptive to the consumer. These laws typically provide both for enforcement by the government to stop the practice and individual actions for damages brought by consumers who are hurt by the practices. This article will describe the kinds of actions that are prohibited by these laws and how consumers can use these laws to their advantage.
Who is covered by the law?
The Massachusetts Act limits coverage to unfair and deceptive acts "in the conduct of trade or commerce." This means that to be covered, the person committing the unfair or deceptive act must be in business. Sales between two private individuals, neither of whom are in the business of regularly selling are generally not covered by the Act. Therefore, a sale of a used car by the owner of the car wouldn't be covered if the owner is not otherwise a car dealer. Other than this basic category of exceptions, however, the law applies very broadly to most commercial transactions including real estate rentals and sales, to service businesses, and to any type of commercial sale of goods.
The Massachusetts law is also limited in its coverage of phone solicitations and other kinds of transactions that involve out of state sellers. These kinds of transactions are covered by the Federal law because they involve actions in more than one state. The federal law is very much like the state one and generally prohibits the same.

Unfair and Deceptive practices are just what they sound like. They take place when someone in the position of a seller acts unfairly to or deceives a buyer. In Massachusetts the common types of unfairness and deception are specifically prohibited by Attorney General regulations but even if not mentioned specifically in the regulations, any other act that meets this definition is unlawful. In deciding whether a practice not specifically mentioned in the law is illegal, the courts consider whether it violates some established concept of fairness, whether it is immoral or unethical, whether it is likely to cause substantial harm to consumers and whether it is dishonest and/or violates the general notion of fair dealing between sellers and buyers.

Some Examples of Unfair or Deceptive Practices
Massachusetts regulations provide some specific examples of actions that are considered unfair and deceptive. Below are some examples of these actions:
False advertising and other misrepresentations - advertising and statements which have the tendency to mislead are illegal. These include:

actual false statement in advertisements about a products quality, ingredients, or effectiveness
fake testimonials and endorsements
pictures of the wrong merchandise in ads trying to sell some other item that imply the picture is of the item being sold
faked pictures of the product performing in a way that it cannot actually perform
Use of prices in ads that are not the real price of the merchandise described or pictured
Advertising sale items that are not actually available to convince people to visit the sellers store or business or sending flyers with some sale items and some sale items where the actual items that are on sale are not clearly identified.
"Bait and Switch" advertising - this is a technique by which the seller advertises an item for sale at a particularly good price or on particularly good terms but does not really want to sell that item. When the consumer comes to their business after seeing the advertisement the seller discourages the purchase of the advertised item and instead tries to convince the buyer to purchase a different item for a higher price or on less favorable terms. The seller's techniques for discouraging the purchase of the object can vary and can include refusing to demonstrate, show or discuss the advertised item, representing that the item is not a good product or it has a poor guarantee or doesn't work properly, demonstrating a defective or poorly performing example of the product, and failing to have the item available to purchase (unless the advertising accurately and clearly stated the limitations on availability).
Deceptive statements of guarantees in advertisements - the statement must identify the nature of the guarantee and who is offering it (the manufacturer, the seller or someone else), what parts of the product are covered and what is required of the consumer to make a claim under the guarantee.
If an ad says that a product is "unconditionally guaranteed" or says "satisfaction or your money back" or words to that effect, the use of the term is deceptive unless the seller will refund the full purchase price, replace the product or repair the product and the BUYER has the right to choose which of these alternatives he or she wants.
Deceptive Pricing Practices - The law also regulates the use of price representations and practices. Below are some of the common pricing practices that the law prohibits:

Claiming that the item is on sale by artificially and untruthfully pretending the product usually sells for a price higher than its normal price. The price represented to be the products "regular" price must be a real price that the product in fact sold for during some significant time in the recent past in the seller's own stores.
Misrepresenting the price that the same product is sold at by competitors
Placing fake price stickers on merchandise with higher than actual prices so that the product appears to be marked down when in fact it isn't
Claiming that a product may be purchased for one price when in fact the actual price is higher
Advertising an item at a very good price to induce customers to come in and then only selling the item at that price if the purchaser also buys another more expensive product.
Using the terms "special price" or "priced for sale" or "clearance priced" or similar terms when the items are not being sold at reduced prices and without clearly disclosing the actual former price or the percentage reduction from the former price that is actually being offered.
Charging for good or services at higher rates than the marked, published or advertised price;
Giving an unrealistically low estimate for a job in order to get it and then charging for a variety of "extras" to increase the price of the job when those extras should clearly have been included in the regular price of the job.
This is by no means a complete list - these are only examples of the kinds of conduct that are covered. If you think the average person would consider a practice unfair or deceptive, it probably is.

 

[Rambler65]

Can you file a complaint even if you walk away from the BS they are spewing?

If yes, I'll file. They seem to try to go after the elderly. Pure scum.

Where is the MA AG information?

 

[JackB62]

Massachusetts AG info

Thanks for responding and wanting to complain to the AG.

We need more people to do so until we reach a critical mass.

The wording of your complaint isn't nearly as important as the number
of complainants.

Send to:

Martha Coakley
Attorney General
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
One Ashburton Place
Boston, MA 02108

 

[Sou13]

File a Consumer Complaint

File a Consumer Complaint

Before Filing a Complaint

The Attorney General’s Public Inquiry & Assistance Center Hotline, (617) 727-8400, is staffed with trained professionals who will review your complaint and determine whether it is appropriate for a free, voluntary mediation service we provide, or whether to direct you to another government agency or other resource. If the complaint is one we believe we may be able to assist you with, the Hotline staff will contact you before they attempt to contact the business or other organization on your behalf to see if the matter can be resolved outside of court.

Please note that in order to expedite the processing and resolution of your complaint, we may refer it to a Local Consumer Program that serves your area. These programs are funded by and work in connection with our office, providing the same free, voluntary mediation services.

The AGO cannot provide legal advice to consumers. If you have questions concerning the specific application or interpretation of the law, we will suggest that you consult a private attorney. If you do not have an attorney we will provide information that may assist you in locating an attorney.

Before filing a complaint, please review the other consumer protection pages on this website for information that may help you to decide whether to file a complaint with the Attorney General’s Office or use other resources that may be more appropriate for your situation.

File a Consumer Complaint

To file a complaint, review the instructions below for filing by mail and filing electronically, and download and complete the Consumer Complaint Form:

Consumer Complaint Form (Fillable PDF)

Please note: if you need to attach additional documentation to your complaint, you must send these by regular mail rather than electronically. For security reasons, additional email attachments will not be opened.

File by Mail

To file your complaint via regular mail, you may complete the form and click the “Print Form” button on the bottom of the second page; or print out a blank copy by clicking the “Print Form” button on the bottom of the second page of the form and complete it by hand.

Send your paper complaint to:

PublicInquiry & Assistance Center
Attorney General’s Office
One Ashburton Place
Boston, MA 02108

File Electronically
You must have Adobe Reader Version 7 or higher installed on your computer to access the form. This program is available to download for free on the Adobe website.

If you use a Web-based email system, rather than an email software client (such as Microsoft Outlook, Outlook Express, or Mozilla Thunderbird), please see below for additional information about filing electronically. To file this form via email, please make note of the following instructions:

If you typically use your installed email software client to send messages, fill out the form online and click on “Submit by Email.” Your email software will automatically open, addressed to emailcomplaints@state.ma.us, with your complaint attached to the message as an .xml file. Send the email to complete the filing of your Consumer Complaint.
If you typically use a Web-based email tool (such as Gmail, Yahoo, or Hotmail), fill out the form online and click on “Submit by Email.” Your email software will automatically open, addressed to emailcomplaints@state.ma.us, with your complaint attached as an.xml file. Before you close out of the email software, you will need to save the .xml file attachment to a folder on your computer. Once the document has been properly saved, you may open your Web-based email account and re-attach the .xml file. Please send your email message with the attachment to emailcomplaints@state.ma.us.

 

[ChrisH]

Here's the Sandcastle Website link

Here's the Sandcastle WebSite - some pages are incomplete

This appears to be the website. Has reservations, room accomodations, general info about area- pictures etc. Other info is still blank ie. Owners and Sales.

http://www.sandcastlecapecod.com/

 

[mweinberg]

Good Guys / Bad Guys

I just returned from my week at the Sandcastle, which included an approximately 90 minute “conversation” with a rep from Outfield followed by a nice 90 minute chat with Cliff Hagberg at a picnic table. I got up from my chat with Cliff thinking that he was being badly maligned here. He corrected much of the mis-information I had been given during the sales pitch, and he seemed almost apologetic for the over-exuberance of the sales force.

Now that I’m home, however, and I’ve had a chance to reread both my notes from the meetings (I’ll post more about both conversations later) and some of the posts here, I find myself more confused than ever. In fact, I’m not even sure exactly who I’m dealing with. It has been posted here that New England Vacation Services shares both principals and an address with Outfield Marketing. And I was told during the sales pitch that “the president of your homeowners’ association,” (Cliff Hagberg?), “is a member of the board of directors of Festiva.”

So who exactly are the players? Can anyone shed any definitive light on the relationship between New England Vacation Services, Festiva, and Outfield Marketing? I had been told during the sales meeting that it would be easy to check, since “Festiva is a publicly traded company,” but this seems to be just one of many untrue statements that came across the desk.

The problem is that I’m beginning to suspect that we’re dealing here with more than simple deceptive and coercive sales tactics. Cliff told us that eventually, Outfield will be selling deeded weeks as well as points, but if their income depends on the sale of points, then I can’t imagine that happening. I’m not usually one to see conspiracies, but I’m beginning to suspect that the story of NEVS as a kindly force trying to rescue the Sandcastle is just a myth.

Can anyone shed any light on any of this? And more importantly, what can we as owners do to protect ourselves from what amounts to a hostile takeover?

 

[ecwinch]

I just returned from my week at the Sandcastle, which included an approximately 90 minute “conversation” with a rep from Outfield followed by a nice 90 minute chat with Cliff Hagberg at a picnic table. I got up from my chat with Cliff thinking that he was being badly maligned here. He corrected much of the mis-information I had been given during the sales pitch, and he seemed almost apologetic for the over-exuberance of the sales force.

Now that I’m home, however, and I’ve had a chance to reread both my notes from the meetings (I’ll post more about both conversations later) and some of the posts here, I find myself more confused than ever. In fact, I’m not even sure exactly who I’m dealing with. It has been posted here that New England Vacation Services shares both principals and an address with Outfield Marketing. And I was told during the sales pitch that “the president of your homeowners’ association,” (Cliff Hagberg?), “is a member of the board of directors of Festiva.”

So who exactly are the players? Can anyone shed any definitive light on the relationship between New England Vacation Services, Festiva, and Outfield Marketing? I had been told during the sales meeting that it would be easy to check, since “Festiva is a publicly traded company,” but this seems to be just one of many untrue statements that came across the desk.

The problem is that I’m beginning to suspect that we’re dealing here with more than simple deceptive and coercive sales tactics. Cliff told us that eventually, Outfield will be selling deeded weeks as well as points, but if their income depends on the sale of points, then I can’t imagine that happening. I’m not usually one to see conspiracies, but I’m beginning to suspect that the story of NEVS as a kindly force trying to rescue the Sandcastle is just a myth.

Can anyone shed any light on any of this? And more importantly, what can we as owners do to protect ourselves from what amounts to a hostile takeover?

I find your post a little confusing. You start off by saying that you feel Cliff has been badly maligned.

Then you proceed to outline that he corrected incorrect information from the sales process. Then you question the confusing business relationship.

Keep in mind, that Cliff is in the thick of all this. Given the complaints that have been made here regarding the sales process, ones that were specifically directed at Cliff, do you not think that Cliff shares some responsibilty for that mis-information? He at least is standing by while it occurs.

I have no doubt, that Cliff is a very personable individual. But do not let yourself become beguiled by his personality.

At one point, he attempted to post here in an attempt to clarify misunderstandings. However that just led to questions that he refused to answer, and he stopped. If everything they have done is legal and correct, what does he have to hide?

 

[mweinberg]

I find your post a little confusing. You start off by saying that you feel Cliff has been badly maligned.

Then you proceed to outline that he corrected incorrect information from the sales process. Then you question the confusing business relationship.

I'm sorry for the confusion. I got up from our conversation feeling that he had been maligned, but that was before I had a chance to look over my notes and to process what he had said.

He certainly is charming, and he tried to make it sound like he was this knight in shining armor who had stepped in to rescue the poorly run and poorly managed Sandcastle. But he really just danced around my questions about who is who on the playing field.

If my post sounded like I was defending Cliff, that was certainly not my intention. On the contrary, I fear for what might be in store for all of us.

After I've had a chance to go back through my notes, I'll post again with some details from my meeting with Outfield. It might be helpful for people who haven't yet been subjected to it to know what is in store for them.

 

[Rambler65]

There is now a Sandcastle blog where up to date information will be posted as it develops. There will also be a form letter that can be copied and mailed to the MA AG. If you have been contacted by Festiva and lied to, I urge you to copy the letter (when available) and mail it in, or use the PDF form provided by sou13 above.

http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/

 

[Rambler65]

There is a sandcastle owner who has started collecting a mailing list of Sandcastle owners. So far the list contains about 150 owners. If you are not yet on this list, would like to be included and get a copy, PM me and I'll get you hooked up.

Rambler

 

[Sou13]

Sandcastle blog

There is now a Sandcastle blog where up to date information will be posted as it develops. There will also be a form letter that can be copied and mailed to the MA AG. If you have been contacted by Festiva and lied to, I urge you to copy the letter (when available) and mail it in, or use the PDF form provided by sou13 above.

http://sandcastleowners.blogspot.com/

Unfamiliar as I am with blogspot, I tried to post a comment and now find myself listed as a "friend" but was unable to post because I didn't know my OpenID URL! We need to unite as "the many" Southcape and Sandcastle victims of the "few"!

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Hello

This is Cliff Hagberg. I am concerned about some of the things I'm reading on here and I'm here to try and answer what questions I can from owners at the Sandcastle. I cannot answer legal questions as I'm not an attorney, but other questions, I will be happy to answer.

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

[mweinberg]

Questions for Cliff

This is Cliff Hagberg. I am concerned about some of the things I'm reading on here and I'm here to try and answer what questions I can from owners at the Sandcastle. I cannot answer legal questions as I'm not an attorney, but other questions, I will be happy to answer.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Given the amount of confusion expressed within this forum, I’m rather surprised that no one has yet taken you up on your offer of answers and explanations. I actually have a number of questions I’d like to pose to you.

1. What exactly is the business relationship between New England Vacation Services, Outfield Marketing, and Festiva? When Outfield first began contacting me by telephone, I was repeatedly told that the three entities are completely separate. I was told that New England Vacation Services is the developer/owner of the Sandcastle, Festiva is a timeshare trade company, and Outfield is an independent firm hired by Festiva to do marketing. However, it appears that New England Vacation Services and Outfield Marketing share an address in Texas, an odd location for a company whose goal is the development of property on Cape Cod, and I was told that “The president of your” (Sandcastle’s) “homeowners’ association is a member of the board of directors of Festiva.” How interrelated are these three firms?

2. What are the business goals of New England Vacation Services? Sandcastle owners were told in your introductory letter last year that you purchased unsold inventory at the Sandcastle to improve the property and to give owners more trading flexibility and options. From appearances, however, it seems that the goal is to get owners to give up their deeds and join Festiva.

3. Why are deeded owners not represented in the Sandcastle’s decision-making group? If, as you state, you welcome owners to keep their deeds and plan to continue selling deeded weeks, such owners should have an integral voice in decisions. It is not fair to deeded owners that, according to other postings here, ¾ of the members of the board of trustees are connected with Outfield Marketing.

4. Why has it been reported in postings on this forum that Sandcastle owners have been denied copies of a current owners’ list? While I, too, am no attorney, Massachusetts General Law, Chapter 183B, section 32 seems to clearly grant owners the right to such a list.

5. What action has been taken against sales people for making dishonest statements and fraudulent claims? When we spoke last week, you seemed genuinely concerned about some of the misinformation I had been given. If you allow this dishonesty to continue, people might conclude that you actually condone such sales tactics.

6. Why has the Master Deed for the Sandcastle not been published? The Master Deed for South Cape Resort is available on their website, but this has not been done at the Sandcastle.

 

[Rambler65]

Well stated mweinberg.

All the questions you pose do a great job of suming up the discussions on this board and will go a long way to clear up just what is happening at Sandcastle, if Cliff posts the answers.

A few of us have letters written and ready to mail to the MA AG voicing our concerns, but will hold off a day or two till we read Cliff's reply.

 

[NEVMSLLC]

I must admit to some surprise that, after what I thought was a very cordial meeting, you decided to post your concerns on this forum rather than contacting me directly for answers. I had thought we had an understanding that if you had questions, I gave you my email address and phone number. Nevertheless, I will answer your questions here.

1. The three entities are completely separate. NEVS, purchased the inventory and the rights of the former developer who controlled Sandcastle for the past twenty or so years. Festiva is an independent exchange company and Outfield does sell memberships for Festiva. Outfield was not hired by Festiva. Outfield is in Texas and NEVS is in Hyannis, MA. No one involved with the Sandcastle is on the board of Festiva. Nor is anyone in NEVS, Outfield or the Sandcastle involved with Festiva in any way.

2. Not true. NEVS purchased the inventory to sell it and recoup their investment.

3. Along with the purchase of the inventory went a bundle of rights referred to as Declarant rights. This gives the developer control of the property until sold out. For twenty years, the former developer never tried to sell out and thus retained control of the resort. NEVS essentially purchased the former developer's position and is in the process of selling the inventory so that eventually, control will be in the hands of the owners where it should have been 20 years ago.

This is one of the reasons why I personally asked if you were interested in being a member of an owner's advisory committee so that owners would finally have input into the future of the Sandcastle.

4. While I can't give you a legal opinion, I can tell you that no resort I know of in New England, or anywhere else for that matter, will release the owner's private and confidential information. Management's job is to protect the owners.

5. Action has been taken. Everything that you and I discussed personally has been done. In addition, further steps have been taken this week.

6. The master deed and other legal documents are a matter of public record and can be viewed by anyone at the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds.

As I said, I'm happy to answer questions from owners.

Cliff

 

[ginnyB60]

Personal Information

Please be aware that as an owner at Sandcastle I would be extremely upset if the management were to pass my personal information on to any third party, including other owners, outside businesses, etc.

I have discussed this with several other owners and they feel the same way.

Management take note.

 

[Fig]

Please be aware that as an owner at Sandcastle I would be extremely upset if the management were to pass my personal information on to any third party, including other owners, outside businesses, etc.

I have discussed this with several other owners and they feel the same way.

Management take note.

Which begs the question WHO passed all owner info...no, not just owner info...leases... to Outfield Marketing so that they could fly around the country, leases in hand and arrive at people's doors and try to get them to give up all voting rights attached to such leases and pay $3000 for such a loss...WHO is protecting here?

 

[dneuser]

QUOTE: 3. Along with the purchase of the inventory went a bundle of rights referred to as Declarant rights. This gives the developer control of the property until sold out. For twenty years, the former developer never tried to sell out and thus retained control of the resort. NEVS essentially purchased the former developer's position and is in the process of selling the inventory so that eventually, control will be in the hands of the owners where it should have been 20 years ago. End Quote

I'm curious about the above statement. We purchased weeks directly from Jewel at the resort after staying there on an exchange a few years ago. Available inventory was clearly posted on the bulletin board with prices. Earlier we had been working with your office at IVS Realty and had gotten close to making an offer on 2 weeks but got a better deal from Jewel. The developer even accepted an offer below the asking price (which Jewel said was not likely to happen). When we contacted your office to say we were going with the resort detal the person in your office (whose name escapes me now) said it wasn't a bad deal and we should probably take it. We appreciated his honesty. By the way - he was a very nice man and very pleasant to work with - I wish I could remember his name.

My point is, this doesn't sound like Sandcastle developer or office agent was trying to avoid selling weeks. The developer may have had a tipping point beyond which they wouldn't sell so as to retain control. So it begs the question - what's your tipping point. What's the "magic number" beyond which you will no longer retain control - if that's not too personal a question? How many weeks do you need to sell to give a deeded owner a real seat on the board with a real vote? Since it's not too likely that you'll sell too many of those out-of-season weeks any time soon, what, if anything, do the by laws say about adding additional seats to the board in an advisory capacity?

 

[mweinberg]

Cliff,

I’m sorry that you were surprised by my posting, but, if you remember correctly, while I gave you my business card, you said that you had none with you since you hadn’t expected to be at the Sandcastle. So this was really the easiest way I had to contact you. More importantly, the questions I raised are not mine alone. Just a quick look back at postings on here shows that other owners have the same questions, confusion, and concerns. This is really the only forum available for the open exchange of information among owners.

While you seem like a very charming guy and I enjoyed talking with you, I can’t quite escape the feeling that you might be telling owners what we want to hear. For example, your posting yesterday reassured me that “The three entities” (NEVS, Outfield Marketing, and Festiva) “are completely separate.” I spent a long time last night reading through your previous posts, and on March 7, 2009, you said, “Tom Franks and Steve Lamantia have interests in Outfield” and that “Outfield and I own NEVS.” That doesn’t sound very separate to me.

Also, you stated that no resort you know “in New England, or anywhere else for that matter, will release owner’s private and confidential information.” Actually, I believe you know of one quite intimately, and that’s the Sandcastle. The Sandcastle clearly provided personal owner information to Outfield Marketing; there is just no other plausible explanation for the barrage of dinnertime telephone calls that owners received from Outfield during the winter and spring.

My question about the master deed was a matter of fairness and convenience. South Cape owners, as I pointed out, have free online access to their master deed on the South Cape website. I am aware that I can inspect a copy at the Barnstable County Registry of Deeds. And I’m sure that you are aware that the County Registry charges $1 per page to provide copies of documents. I merely wanted to save myself a significant expense.

As a high school English teacher, I readily admit to my lack of business experience and acumen. Unlike many of the regulars who post on TUG, I own a single week in a single unit at a single resort. I had, in fact, been considering buying another unit to use for trade and rental, but with the uncertainty of future costs, this is clearly not the time to do that. This is why I asked when we spoke about inventory at a different timeshare resort.

Although I have both traded and rented my unit in the past, I bought it originally for the simple reason that I love Provincetown. Rather than being argumentative, I am merely interested in protecting my investment. Last year, when I was unable to use my week at the Sandcastle, I rented a 2-bedroom, 2-bathroom, 1600 square foot home just a 5 minute walk from the beach and a 10 minute walk to the center of town. If, as threatened by the representatives of Outfield, the annual carrying cost of my timeshare comes to exceed the $1400 I paid for this rental, it seems to me that my timeshare will then be essentially worthless.

My fear, and the fear of others if I may take the liberty of speaking for them, is that deeded owners are being taken advantage of by Outfield Marketing, which, in part, runs the resort. While Festiva might offer some attractive trade options, owners can trade through RCI or II, but trading through Festiva requires not only the surrender of one’s deed, but also the payment of a hefty fee to do it. Yet owners are being subjected to a high-pressure, disingenuous conversion scheme conducted by the same people who help run the resort. I hope you can see why this is of concern to people. Rather than being given increased options, owners are clearly being steered in one single direction. Promises are being made in conversion presentations which are not supported by anything in writing, and owners are being told that a decision has to be made on the spot.

If you are truly concerned about being misunderstood and maligned in these postings, I’d suggest that you might want to take a look at your relationship with Outfield Marketing and what you have already admitted to be a series of prevarications and half-truths. It would do a great deal for your credibility if you were to have the Outfield representatives pack their things and then run them out of town. I can't understand how a nice guy like you got hooked up with them in the first place.

 

[Sou13]

This is how he dances around the issue

Here's a quote from another discussion:

He was very nice and informative. Our conversation led me to believe that there is not as much going on negatively as has been presented or possibly assumed.

Mr. Hagberg seems to be a professsional and also indicated that he is a property owner at Southcape who stated that his interests are in making Southcape the best Southcaoe it can be.

He stated that there will be transparency in the budgeting and dealings, and that to the extent Festiva ends up with a Points system, it will be optional, and they will not have voting rights as the voting rights will remain with the deeded owners.

He stated that New England Vacation Services LLC of which he is one of four principals, or managing members, and the other 3 are principals of Outfield Marketing.

He stated that the special assessment would raise sufficient funds in his professional opinion to upgrade and make neccessary repairs and improvements and taht there would be a budget and source and use of funds sheet prepared and distributed.

He stated that the Board of Trustees of Southcape was contemplating establishing an advisory council of selected owners to particiapte in decisions and assist in distributre information to other owners etc.

Further that the similarity between Southcape and Sandcastle were such in that he is the owner of a different entity that is involved in that.http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92570​

Now can anyone help me dig up the one where he admits that those "principals of Outfield Marketing" own 75% of NEVS?

 

[NEVMSLLC]

Hey Sou13, no one has to look it up, it's a fact. You posted again where I've stated it and I've stated it several times. It's certainly not a secret, anyone can look it up. And you're not even an owner here.