• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Sales Presentation

griffinhouse

TUG Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Messages
69
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
Northville, Michigan
OK--so yesterday my husband and I did a sales presentation at Grand Vista in Orlando. Overall, it was fine and in the end we chose (again) not to purchase any DC points. (We are members though.) One thing the salesman told us I'm not sure to believe. He basically said that Marriott cherry-picks any prime week that is deposited into II by a DC member. That they go in and take the best units out for use by DC members using points. When I questioned him about it he said they replace them with "mud weeks". Is this just another untruth by a sales person? I sure hope so!
 

GregT

TUG Member
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
7,128
Reaction score
1,886
Points
599
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
OK--so yesterday my husband and I did a sales presentation at Grand Vista in Orlando. Overall, it was fine and in the end we chose (again) not to purchase any DC points. (We are members though.) One thing the salesman told us I'm not sure to believe. He basically said that Marriott cherry-picks any prime week that is deposited into II by a DC member. That they go in and take the best units out for use by DC members using points. When I questioned him about it he said they replace them with "mud weeks". Is this just another untruth by a sales person? I sure hope so!

TUG has indeed speculated on this very thing and I, for one, believe they are doing this.

I can't prove it and I don't know the exact mechanism (either some contractual arrangement with II that gives them first look, or some on-going Trade Request that gets them the week before some Exchanger), but I've seen too few II matches on prime weeks for TUGgers 9-12 months from check-in (as compared to the past) and too much inventory available for reservations in DClub 9-12 months from check-in (Hilton Head Summer, Aruba Q1) as compared to the weeks that naturally exist in DClub Trust.

Those weeks came from somewhere... and I believe II is one of the most important sources.

Interesting that they are talking about this in sales presentations.

Best,

Greg
 
Last edited:

SueDonJ

Moderator
Joined
Jul 26, 2006
Messages
16,612
Reaction score
5,779
Points
1,249
Location
Massachusetts and Hilton Head Island
Resorts Owned
Marriott Barony Beach and SurfWatch
Marriott hasn't said officially exactly how they mingle the inventory among the "buckets" but we know they can do it, and we know they have access to II deposits. It sure appears that Marriott can cherry-pick in a number of ways.

Since the DC introduction we've been trying to track inventory and it does seem as though the least that can be said, is that Marriott isn't making bulk banks (of whatever inventory they have available) into II as far out as they did prior to the DC. It seems DC Points users have been able to make reservations of high-demand intervals sooner than II users are able.

What we don't know is if that trend will continue indefinitely, or if Marriott was simply testing the new system and taking safeguards to ensure as much as possible that DC Points users would meet with success in the early stages. It might be that the same trend will continue so they can ensure success, it might be that they have enough data to somewhat equalize the inventory between Marriott and II, or it might morph in other ways that we haven't thought of yet. Marriott doesn't seem inclined to want to share the secret with us, whatever it is. ;)
 

MALC9990

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
1,796
Reaction score
29
Points
259
Location
Hampshire, United Kingdom
Another very good reason for using Request First with II. Don't give up your prime week until that good week in exchange comes through.
 

mjm1

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,547
Reaction score
1,294
Points
548
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Resorts Owned
Marriott: Resorts and Destination Club Points;
Westin Kierland Villas;
HGVC Flamingo & Blvd;
Hyatt Pinon Pointe
I agree they must be holding back inventory that used to be deposited into II earlier in the past. We've had a request for both a 1 BR and Studio at Ko Olina in late April 2012 since Feb 2011, using the same size units from Desert Springs I with a high demand week, and we are still waiting. We are pretty confident that one of the trades will come through, but it seems to be taking a lot longer than what I understand in normal. Hopefully in January.
 

kjd

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
1,222
Reaction score
2
Points
248
Location
Naples, Florida
When you're talking about getting the choicest weeks anywhere you'll have to buy them. It's that simple. If you bought the new points and don't have a home resort Marriott might want you to have an edge. Evidently, there are two classes of point ownership. There could be three if you buy additional points.

When you are trading your legacy unit for points or depositing it with II that's really a secondary benefit and you are then subjected to all kinds of in-house games. Some of the games they can play no one is even aware of.

I for one am not going to lose any sleep over what imaginary games Marriott can cook up. You bought a week and that's what you have. Trading will be a disappointment unless you are flexible with dates and resorts. Trying to get "the best weeks" somewhere is going to depend upon luck as much as it is Marriott playing games.

The OP's salesperson was probably right about how Marriott could manuever the requests. Whether they will always do that under every circumstance is questionable. Anyway, it's just another tool in the salesperson's tool box.
 

BocaBoy

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
5,332
Reaction score
410
Points
368
Location
Wisconsin
Resorts Owned
Grand Chateau
I can't prove it and I don't know the exact mechanism (either some contractual arrangement with II that gives them first look, or some on-going Trade Request that gets them the week before some Exchanger), but I've seen too few II matches on prime weeks for TUGgers 9-12 months from check-in (as compared to the past) and too much inventory available for reservations in DClub 9-12 months from check-in (Hilton Head Summer, Aruba Q1) as compared to the weeks that naturally exist in DClub Trust.

Those weeks came from somewhere... and I believe II is one of the most important sources.
What I was recently told in Maui is that quite a few owners of prime weeks who used to deposit in II are now exchanging for DC points instead. Those were weeks that used to go into the II pool. That explanation seems credible (although I certainly have no concrete evidence) because the prime weeks have such a large number of points and can often give the owner more value than exchanging through II.

I own two weeks in Maui and I know I will never deposit anything but an occasional studio into II. If I ever need to exchange the master suite, I will exchange the entire unit for 7475 DC points instead.

I think this may be where most of the prime units in largely sold-out resorts are coming from.
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,572
Reaction score
19,101
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I think the II inventory issues is a a combination of all these things. Marriott until recently was not depositing a lot of bulk inventory. Owners of prime resorts in prime seasons have a great incentive to deposit for DC points instead of depositing in to II. What Marriott can't get from unsold inventory or deposits, they are likely grabbing from II in order to meet DC reservation demands.

The old adage as was mentioned in an earlier post holds true. If you want prime resorts in prime time and don't have the points to get them, owning is probably the only real option to get them.

If you tend not to travel in prime seasons and are able to travel in shoulder season, nothing will really change.
 

GregT

TUG Member
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
7,128
Reaction score
1,886
Points
599
Location
Carlsbad, CA
Resorts Owned
Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
What I was recently told in Maui is that quite a few owners of prime weeks who used to deposit in II are now exchanging for DC points instead. Those were weeks that used to go into the II pool. That explanation seems credible (although I certainly have no concrete evidence) because the prime weeks have such a large number of points and can often give the owner more value than exchanging through II.

I own two weeks in Maui and I know I will never deposit anything but an occasional studio into II. If I ever need to exchange the master suite, I will exchange the entire unit for 7475 DC points instead.

I think this may be where most of the prime units in largely sold-out resorts are coming from.

BocaBoy,

Yes, I've been told this too -- but I don't believe it can be responsible for the inventory that I've seen in DClub, and I think we should be a little skeptical of what the sales team is telling us. Recall the practical impact of the September 30 deadline for redeeming for DC points.

In my real life example -- I wanted to go to Aruba Ocean Club in February 2012 (where I am going), and DClub was loaded with Aruba inventory in January 2011 but II was dry (I ultimately matched my trade in late March). Where did that Aruba inventory come from? And why was II dry until the end of March?

Did that many Aruba Ocean Club owners redeem their 2012 week 13+ months in advance -- and 9 months before the Sept 30 deadline? And no one deposited a Studio into II? I find that improbable (especially since Aruba doesn't give alot of DC points). But, there was a lot of inventory -- every size -- every view -- and yet there is no Aruba Ocean Club inventory in the Trust.

So where did it come from? I speculate it came partly from Marriott projecting the future MRPs redemptions and withholding those inventory back (and available to DClub) -- and also from getting any weeks deposited into II back into DClub.

I think the same thing occurred with Hilton Head Summer 2012 -- but it's less obvious because the experiment is closer to the September 30 deadline, and maybe some Hilton Head owners did redeem 2012 weeks prior to May 2011 (so they could make 2012 reservations).

Again.....this is hard to prove. But I don't buy the line from Marriott that this is all from a bunch of owners who are redeeming for points early enough to make a large quantity of inventory available to DClub. We may never know where the inventory is coming from, but it's interesting to watch.

Best,

Greg
 
Last edited:

m61376

Tug Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
7,203
Reaction score
271
Points
518
Location
NY
Resorts Owned
Marriott Aruba Surf Club 2 & 3BRs
It will also be interesting to see if anything changes post spin-off. It may have made sense for Marriott to fuel the DC with weeks redeemed for MR points rather than renting them, but now that they are separate entities will the DC get weeks redeemed for MR points or will Marriott.com? Since you mention Aruba, I can tell you that there are many dates over the winter that Marriott.com has no rental inventory (they are sold out) even with prices approaching $900 per night with taxes. And I am not referring just to holiday weeks. So will MVCI still get that inventory for the DC, or will they go for rentals on Marriott's website?

I am not certain that Marriott has grabbed all the good weeks and substituted mud weeks (according to what was in writing they had to substitute like for like; don't get me wrong, I am not so naive as to believe this is what is going on behind the scenes, just that we can't jump to conclusions with certainty here), but clearly they are grabbing at least some prime weeks, perhaps substituting others where there is more trust inventory.

For the same reasons that I think Aruba really got shorted in the allocation department, I am not sure looking at Aruba weeks is the best determinant of what is happening overall. Not because I own there, but I do think Aruba was perhaps the most shorted based on the comparison of point allocation relative to what Marirott.com deems to be the fair market rental rate there- which is the only objective comparison people have to value. Because Aruba weeks (as well as some other prime Caribbean weeks) got relatively low point allocations, owners there have less incentive to trade in those weeks for DC points, so the DC may be grabbing those early deposits from II, since on the flip side Aruba and other prime Caribbean weeks are relatively good point values for point users (translates into likely higher demand). At these early stages Marriott needs to make sure DC point users are satisfied, in order to get the ball rolling and give people the incentive to buy more points.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
47,572
Reaction score
19,101
Points
1,299
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
I think early on that Marriott had to use weeks turned in for MRs to feed the DC system. I think however as time goes on they will return to monetizing those weeks through Marriott.com or other avenues. They simply don't have the cash to essentially give them away for free as DC exchanges. The points they give in exchange are not free. We may still see the left over inventory that wasn't monetized deposited in to the DC exchange company.
 
Top