Sales Brochure from the early 1990's

[GOplatinumowner]

We purchased at Grand Ocean in 1994 and misplaced the sales brochure, does anyone by chance still have it?

Even though we purchased Platinum Ocean Front, Marriott keeps telling us that everything is Ocean Front and what was Courtyard (when we bought) is Oceanside.

 

[DeniseM]

What you need is your contract - that is the legal definition - not the brochure.

 

[GOplatinumowner]

I have the Contract, subscription documents and deed but want the noted document to confirm what was described as Ocean Front vs Oceanside etc.

 

[DeniseM]

To reply, scroll down to the bottom of this post and click POST REPLY.

When you clicked on the red triangle, you reported your post as a problem post.

 

[SueDonJ]

As far as I know Grande Ocean was always sold as either Oceanfront or Oceanside but marriott.com classifies Oceanfront as "close to ocean" and Oceanside as "courtyard view."

I agree with Denise - check your deed to see the Unit and Week Numbers associated with your ownership (realizing they're for inventory purposes only and not a guarantee of placement in that certain unit during that certain week,) and look for any reference to Oceanfront or Oceanside.

If you've also misplaced your deed you can contact Owner Modifications (800-443-4391) to verify the info and then we can help you figure out if it corresponds to a Plat/Oceanfront interval.

 

[SueDonJ]

I have the Contract, subscription documents and deed but want the noted document to confirm what was described as Ocean Front vs Oceanside etc.

Ah. I've never heard it explained here any other way but what's in this post. I do remember being surprised the first time seeing that (because I always thought Oceanfront at GO meant the same as at Barony Beach) but GO owners confirmed that the unit views have always been divided in the way described in that link.

 

[DeniseM]

Here is the other thing - TS sales people are infamous for describing what they are selling in the most favorable terms, so what the sales person "said verbally," and what is written in the deed, may be completely different.

Regardless of what you were "told," the deed is the legal definition of what you own.

 

[SueDonJ]

Here is the other thing - TS sales people are infamous for describing what they are selling in the most favorable terms, so what the sales person "said verbally," and what is written in the deed, may be completely different.

Regardless of what you were "told," the deed is the legal definition of what you own.

I think s/he's more interested in verifying which units on property are classified Oceanfront and which are Oceanside. If at the time s/he purchased there was a document included that specified in which units s/he could be placed based on what was purchased, and that's been changed since then I agree, Marriott has some answering to do.

Also, the fact that Marriott Vacation Club and Marriott, Int'l use different terms to describe the same units causes problems, but that's usually more a matter of understanding unit placement than interval ownership.

 

[ilene13]

We were founding owners at GO. We had Platinum Oceanside. The description in the link with the horizontal line is the way it was explained to us in 1990 or 89, whenever we purchased it.

 

[GOplatinumowner]

I think s/he's more interested in verifying which units on property are classified Oceanfront and which are Oceanside. If at the time s/he purchased there was a document included that specified in which units s/he could be placed based on what was purchased, and that's been changed since then I agree, Marriott has some answering to do.

Also, the fact that Marriott Vacation Club and Marriott, Int'l use different terms to describe the same units causes problems, but that's usually more a matter of understanding unit placement than interval ownership.

Hi Susan:
you got what I am after in that I want to see what they marketed in their brochure vs. what they are doing now. I have the purchase documents, subscription agreement and my deed and all do say Ocean Front. I want to now what they defined that term to mean back when we bought it. Clearly Sales folks may say one thing etc., etc., thus the reason for my original inquiry

 

[GOplatinumowner]

Hi Susan:
you got what I am after in that I want to see what they marketed in their brochure vs. what they are doing now. I have the purchase documents, subscription agreement and my deed and all do say Ocean Front. I want to now what they defined that term to mean back when we bought it. Clearly Sales folks may say one thing etc., etc., thus the reason for my original inquiry

I also realize that just because a unit is in the Deed, we are not privy to "that unit". I am seeking absolute clarity in the documents prior to what I believe was a change in definition including the program change to "Destinations". By example, the current GM claims that the entire Sandcastle building is Ocean Front. In the subscription documents it states that building only has 30 Ocean Front, the remaining are Ocean Side.

 

[sparty]

I also realize that just because a unit is in the Deed, we are not privy to "that unit". I am seeking absolute clarity in the documents prior to what I believe was a change in definition including the program change to "Destinations". By example, the current GM claims that the entire Sandcastle building is Ocean Front. In the subscription documents it states that building only has 30 Ocean Front, the remaining are Ocean Side.

I think the GM is correct. This used to throw me for a little loop too when talking to the Barony/GO Marriott folks. They would speak in the context of a whole building or the entire resort, it is direct ocean front. This is different in context of how individual villas are assigned and how the governing documents are worded. Very subtle differences but they are correct, maybe walking too fine of a line though.

 

[AlmostRetired]

I found my Marriott brochure dated from 93. It has an asterisk with the following words "This promotional device is being used for the purpose of soliciting the sale of vacation time sharing plans". Never fully believe marketing materials.

Being cynical from years of trading, My definition of oceanview is if I put a giraffe on the balcony, can the giraffe see the ocean. My definition of oceanfront is you stand on your balcony at look at the 12 o'clock position do you face the ocean. You may or may not see the ocean.

Edited.... my brochure was not from the GO but from the Monarch. Sorry if I gave the impression it was. My guess is all marketing brochures are the same.

 

[SueDonJ]

I also realize that just because a unit is in the Deed, we are not privy to "that unit". I am seeking absolute clarity in the documents prior to what I believe was a change in definition including the program change to "Destinations". By example, the current GM claims that the entire Sandcastle building is Ocean Front. In the subscription documents it states that building only has 30 Ocean Front, the remaining are Ocean Side.

As you can see from ilene13's and others' posts here, the way that the GM explained it to you - that all of Sandcastle is "oceanfront" - is the same way that others have been led to believe since the resort was built and prior to when you purchased.

But this is interesting because you're talking about a document that says something different. If your document is a marketing brochure or similar item with an asterisked, "this is a conceptual drawing ..." statement, then it's not worth the paper it's printed on. But if you're looking at one of the governing docs - for example the Time Sharing Declaration - and it says that the Sandcastle building contains both oceanfront- and oceanside-designated units, then you have a legitimate gripe with Marriott, at least enough that someone should be willing to explain to you how/when Marriott filed with the proper agencies to change the legal declarations.

 

[GOplatinumowner]

As you can see from ilene13's and others' posts here, the way that the GM explained it to you - that all of Sandcastle is "oceanfront" - is the same way that others have been led to believe since the resort was built and prior to when you purchased.

But this is interesting because you're talking about a document that says something different. If your document is a marketing brochure or similar item with an asterisked, "this is a conceptual drawing ..." statement, then it's not worth the paper it's printed on. But if you're looking at one of the governing docs - for example the Time Sharing Declaration - and it says that the Sandcastle building contains both oceanfront- and oceanside-designated units, then you have a legitimate gripe with Marriott, at least enough that someone should be willing to explain to you how/when Marriott filed with the proper agencies to change the legal declarations.

Susan:
the original subscription documents does state how many of each are in every building while they say today that Sandcastle is all Ocean Front, their declarations state only 30 units are Ocean front and the rest Ocean side.

Quandry indeed

 

[DannyMc]

Sand Castle is all Oceanfront

The early resort maps showed an Oceanfront line drawn on the map. I have one from a 1999 Newsletter. Sand Castle and Sea Horse are all Oceanfront villas, while only the "direct beach facing" villas in Dolphin and Starfish are Oceanfront.

 

[GOplatinumowner]

The early resort maps showed an Oceanfront line drawn on the map. I have one from a 1999 Newsletter. Sand Castle and Sea Horse are all Oceanfront villas, while only the "direct beach facing" villas in Dolphin and Starfish are Oceanfront.

Thanks Danny. We are a single week owner and never had an issue getting a place facing the beach until about 5 years ago when getting any reservation at all was close to impossible except however for late August. They put is in an oceanside this year and it simply irritated me both from the aspect of the hassle to get a reservation and not getting the unit type we bought. I think its a combination of preference for multiple week owners, Destinations, and their ownership of auctioned units that they then rent with the Ocean Front units deeming higher nightly rentals.

 

[SueDonJ]

Thanks Danny. We are a single week owner and never had an issue getting a place facing the beach until about 5 years ago when getting any reservation at all was close to impossible except however for late August. They put is in an oceanside this year and it simply irritated me both from the aspect of the hassle to get a reservation and not getting the unit type we bought. I think its a combination of preference for multiple week owners, Destinations, and their ownership of auctioned units that they then rent with the Ocean Front units deeming higher nightly rentals.

It is possible for Marriott to re-designate units but it requires amendments to be filed with the proper agencies, and it can only be done to the extent that it doesn't result at the time of re-designation in previously-sold inventory being over-sold. But it isn't something that comes up on TUG very often because it's hardly ever done by Marriott. IF they've done re-designations at Grande Ocean they should be able to provide you with the documentation. You could try contacting customer.care@vacationclub.com - that's an email address which many TUGgers have used successfully. Or, you could contact Executive Leadership. Be prepared for them to ask you to furnish them with a copy of the document that you've mentioned here.

But this thread shows that other long-time owners - one a founding owner - are reinforcing what the GM has explained to you (i.e. that all units in Sand Castle and Sea Horse have always been designated "oceanfront.") Their experience has to count for something, doesn't it?

Grande Ocean uses a placement system which is similar to other resorts on Hilton Head Island whereby owners are rotated among the "best" and "worst" units within the owned unit type, so as to give all owners an equal fair chance at being placed in the "best." If you were placed in a unit which is currently legally-designated as the view type you purchased, and MVW can demonstrate that in contrast to the document you're referencing, then you've been placed correctly. (And, you should have priority for a "best" placement during your next owner stay.)

If you own Oceanfront and were placed in a legally-designated Oceanside unit, that's completely unacceptable. IF that's the case, in your shoes I would be looking for compensation and I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a replacement Week the same as what you own.

Good luck if you take this further - I'm interested to hear what you learn, and I hope that MVW leaves you with a better understanding of your situation.

 

[GOplatinumowner]

Thanks, will keep you aprised