• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

ROFR exercised on gift transfer

Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
23
Reaction score
5
Points
13
Resorts Owned
Hyatt Piñon Pointe (eoy odd)
Hilton on the Boulevard (eoy even)
Hilton on the Boulevard (annual)
Hyatt High Sierra Lodge (annual)
I am the transferee....signed a "sales agreement" at zero dollars and indicated in the agreement its a gift transfer. Hyatt notified current owner that they are exercising their ROFR. Is that legal? Can they exercise a ROFR for the gift of a deeded property? Any advice?
 

travelhacker

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
436
Reaction score
288
Points
124
I am the transferee....signed a "sales agreement" at zero dollars and indicated in the agreement its a gift transfer. Hyatt notified current owner that they are exercising their ROFR. Is that legal? Can they exercise a ROFR for the gift of a deeded property? Any advice?
I haven't read the legalese, but I don't think there is a provision to gift it.

I don't think the seller has to go through with the sale to Hyatt though.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
30,011
Reaction score
4,200
Points
699
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Vista
Marriott's Harbour Lake
SVV - Bella
SVV - Key West
I haven't read the legalese, but I don't think there is a provision to gift it.

I don't think the seller has to go through with the sale to Hyatt though.
Doesn't the developer just take over the contract as the buyer? So if you were obligated to sell it to the original buyer, you would still be obligated to sell it to Hyatt? Of course I doubt Hyatt would actually bother to enforce the contract, but they could.
 

travelhacker

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
436
Reaction score
288
Points
124
Doesn't the developer just take over the contract as the buyer? So if you were obligated to sell it to the original buyer, you would still be obligated to sell it to Hyatt? Of course I doubt Hyatt would actually bother to enforce the contract, but they could.
Yes. However, I haven't seen any language that punishes the seller in any of the contracts I've bought. Seller could try notifying the closing company of the intent to withdraw and see what would happen.
 

Pathways

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
684
Reaction score
438
Points
173
Location
Indiana
Doesn't the developer just take over the contract as the buyer? So if you were obligated to sell it to the original buyer, you would still be obligated to sell it to Hyatt? Of course I doubt Hyatt would actually bother to enforce the contract, but they could.
I know someone who submitted the same property multiple times (same property,buyer/seller) and raised the price until HRC passed on the ROFR. They said they had done that on 4 or 5 different sales. As long as you didn't put into the contract a penalty if the seller doesn't complete the sale, you can generally back out any time.

As everyone knows who buys/sells timeshares - there are always 'outs' until the deed is done.

I am the transferee....signed a "sales agreement" at zero dollars and indicated in the agreement its a gift transfer. Hyatt notified current owner that they are exercising their ROFR. Is that legal? Can they exercise a ROFR for the gift of a deeded property? Any advice?
Never heard of an attempt to ROFR a properly written gift transfer. If this is truly a 'gift'. such as to a family member, I certainly would not complete a transfer to Hyatt. I will not suggest any of multiple ways to get around this, as only you know if your transfer is legitimately 0.00
 

bdh

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
712
Reaction score
149
Points
253
Doesn't the developer just take over the contract as the buyer? So if you were obligated to sell it to the original buyer, you would still be obligated to sell it to Hyatt? Of course I doubt Hyatt would actually bother to enforce the contract, but they could.
The seller is not required to complete the sale to Hyatt in a ROFR situation - however most sellers do as they no longer want the TS (and they don't care who winds up with the TS - they're just glad they no longer own it). When Hyatt exercises ROFR, the seller can simply say they changed their mind and the entire deal dies. As Pathways noted above, a sale can be submitted for the same property multiple times (same property,buyer/seller) and raise the price until it passes ROFR.
 

RX8

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
2,432
Reaction score
1,531
Points
274
Resorts Owned
Grand Pacific Palisades (HGVC) and DVC (VGC)
I know someone who submitted the same property multiple times (same property,buyer/seller) and raised the price until HRC passed on the ROFR. They said they had done that on 4 or 5 different sales.
Umm, isn’t this outright fraud? The seller and buyer are obviously in cahoots to create fake contracts in an effort to maximize their selling price.
 

bogey21

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
7,920
Reaction score
2,815
Points
499
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Umm, isn’t this outright fraud? The seller and buyer are obviously in cahoots to create fake contracts in an effort to maximize their selling price.
Not sure they are trying to maximize the selling price but rather are trying to make sure a preferred buyer gets the Week...

George
 

RX8

TUG Member
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
2,432
Reaction score
1,531
Points
274
Resorts Owned
Grand Pacific Palisades (HGVC) and DVC (VGC)
Not sure they are trying to maximize the selling price but rather are trying to make sure a preferred buyer gets the Week...

George
Oh yes, you are absolutely correct. I was reading it that they buyer didn’t want it but rather the seller wanted HRC to exercise ROFR.

Even at that, there is still an element of fraud since they are executing multiple contracts all in an effort to bypass HRC’s contractual right to take over as buyer through ROFR.
 

Kal

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
4,003
Reaction score
181
Points
298
Location
Bellevue, WA
IMHO, the seller wants the unit to go to a specific "buyer" and not to Hyatt. Obviously, there is a relationship between the two. If the owner simply wanted to part with the annual MF, there would be no issue of who obtains the unit. To make the desired transaction function, the seller will need to change the approach. One way is to continually raise the selling price until it exceeds Hyatt's "sweet spot". Other options are also available.
 

Pathways

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
684
Reaction score
438
Points
173
Location
Indiana
Oh yes, you are absolutely correct. I was reading it that they buyer didn’t want it but rather the seller wanted HRC to exercise ROFR.

Even at that, there is still an element of fraud since they are executing multiple contracts all in an effort to bypass HRC’s contractual right to take over as buyer through ROFR.
HRC never loses their rights, they can always exorcise at the higher price. If it is simply the intent of the 'corporate' entity to purchase the week, they could reach out to the seller and negotiate. If the intent is to simply support the price, or simply take the week if it is dirt cheap only, then I see no issue.

I purchased two Marriott weeks, and used the same law firm that Marriott uses for their 'developer' sales. They filled out the ROFR form as a gift. I questioned them, and they said on their resales they do it that way so the sale always goes through. Not sure what you call that, but hey, they are the legal minds! (I was surprised the seller in each case didn't care, as each was a 5 figure sale. I assume they just figured the law firm already had my check, so they were getting paid one way or the other. But still, the ROFR did not match the sales contract)
 
Last edited:

Pathways

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2014
Messages
684
Reaction score
438
Points
173
Location
Indiana
I think ultimately the developer just wants to support the price so they can better justify their own pricing. In that case, I really don't think they care about the multiple submissions, they just don't want a low sales price. Again, if they really wanted to own a specific week, they know who the owners are. They could just reach out a make offers.

I figure that is why some charge for the ROFR submission. That way, they are making money no matter. I heard a MOC fixed week/unit got submitted four times before Marriott let it go.

The seller (unless personal friends with the buyer) is kind of taking a chance themselves if they participate. If after multiple submissions the buyer ultimately backs out, they are stuck with no personal sale and no ROFR sale. So I doubt it occurs frequently.
 
Last edited:

win555

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
48
Points
78
Resorts Owned
worldmark
Umm, isn’t this outright fraud? The seller and buyer are obviously in cahoots to create fake contracts in an effort to maximize their selling price.
Oh yes, you are absolutely correct. I was reading it that they buyer didn’t want it but rather the seller wanted HRC to exercise ROFR.

Even at that, there is still an element of fraud since they are executing multiple contracts all in an effort to bypass HRC’s contractual right to take over as buyer through ROFR.
The seller simply changed their mind.. they should be allowed to do that. Bait and switch is a common tactic in TS sales.. except that the developer is at the receiving end now. Is there anything in the contract between the seller and Hyatt that they are required to finish the transaction? If it is fraud, why doesn't Hyatt pursue the seller legally?

Considering all the "fraudulent" activities developers engage in, I'm sure they don't think of this as serious enough fraud to pursue these sellers.
 

dioxide45

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
30,011
Reaction score
4,200
Points
699
Location
NE Florida
Resorts Owned
Marriott's Grande Vista
Marriott's Harbour Lake
SVV - Bella
SVV - Key West
The seller simply changed their mind.. they should be allowed to do that.
You have a contract. Changing your mind really shouldn't be an option. You can't change your mind simply because the developer exercises ROFR. You still have a contract.
 

win555

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
48
Points
78
Resorts Owned
worldmark
You have a contract. Changing your mind really shouldn't be an option. You can't change your mind simply because the developer exercises ROFR. You still have a contract.
You got me.

I know guys will come down hard on me but let me just admit that I don't see anything wrong with these tricks. They are in the same spirit as tactics used by timeshare developers: a way to use the system in your favor.
 

HenryT

Tug Review Crew: Rookie
TUG Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
278
Reaction score
105
Points
253
Location
Northern Virginia
Resorts Owned
Cypress Pt, Eastern Slope Inn, HRA, SBP, WSJ, Hyatt Sunset Harbor, Hyatt Pinon Pointe, Bluebeard's Castle, HGVC Hurricane House, Wyndham: Long Wharf, Royal Vista, & SeaWatch Plantation.
The contract is between the seller and the original buyer isn't it? The developer is not part of that sales contract. If the developer took the unit via ROFR, a new contract would need to be generated between the seller and the developer. The original contract would no longer be valid. Under these conditions I would think the seller can decide if they wanted to sell to the developer or not.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,218
Reaction score
884
Points
223
You got me.

I know guys will come down hard on me but let me just admit that I don't see anything wrong with these tricks. They are in the same spirit as tactics used by timeshare developers: a way to use the system in your favor.
Nothing wrong with using every loop hole available to stick it to the TS developers. That's what I have been saying "use the system in your favor" !!!;)
 

pacman777

TUG Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
444
Reaction score
98
Points
138
Location
TEXAS
Umm, isn’t this outright fraud? The seller and buyer are obviously in cahoots to create fake contracts in an effort to maximize their selling price.
Lol. I think this pales in comparison to the real fraud that comes out of these timeshare salespeople’s mouths.
 

win555

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Messages
112
Reaction score
48
Points
78
Resorts Owned
worldmark
Lol. I think this pales in comparison to the real fraud that comes out of these timeshare salespeople’s mouths.
I don't think it's fraud if the developer does it :ponder:.. if the seller does it to get a small fraction of the initial purchase price, it is outright fraud :LOL:
 

sjsharkie

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2012
Messages
1,950
Reaction score
208
Points
173
You have a contract. Changing your mind really shouldn't be an option. You can't change your mind simply because the developer exercises ROFR. You still have a contract.
There is no contract if the seller decides not to sell unless the contract has a penalty or some other clause in it stating as such.

All of the sales contracts I use as seller state that if seller backs out for any reason, they are responsible for all closing costs and nothing more. Most of the timeshares I buy have similar language. I suppose you could add in clauses to state that there is a penalty for backing out, but I haven't seen one in any of my purchases.

-ryan
 

NiteMaire

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
907
Reaction score
589
Points
204
Location
Cajun living/loving Aloha on Oahu
Resorts Owned
Marriott's
Grand Château,
The Colonies
at Williamsburg,
Sheraton
Vistana Resort,
DRI Sedona Summit
Top