Retro a unit [merged]

[oldfool19]

So doing all due diligence prior to purchasing a first time share I see from perusing the forums that a resale seems to be the way to go.

However if I want to retro the unit in the Starwood system (and for now hold off on discussing why one would want to retro a unit) I will then have to buy a unit from the developer.

Not telling you experienced forum people anything you dont already know , this purchase from the developer will not be economical with respect to how much value the unit will lose the minute after I sign the contract. So smart me saves a ton of money buying a resale but then turns around and loses all those saving by buying the developer unit to retro the resale. But still cheaper than buying two developer units I guess.

My sales person was pushing Lagunamar at 35K for a 2 br lockoff which at resale seems to be in the 5 to 10K range at best.Yikes. Stated that was the best deal going - all other developer units in the system would cost even more and wouldn't show any other options. Does anyone in the forums know a less expensive developer unit one could use to retro a resale unit. Or what is the advice in that regard.


And is there any way to see all the developer inventory at all locations to see what units are available at what price to compare to resale? Or is one at the mercy of the salesperson?

Thanks

 

[DeniseM]

You do not have to buy resale and requalify to get Staroptions - there are 5 Starwood Resorts that have Staroptions with a resale. See the list in the Starwood FAQ at the top of the forum.

There is virtually no reason to buy from the developer for any reason, unless you plan to go all the way to 5 Star Elite.

There are no lists of developer units - Starwood is not known for transparency.

There is a minimum of $20K developer purchase to requalify.

What are your GOALS with this purchase?

 

[Westsider]

From my 'pricing addendum'

My sales person was pushing Lagunamar at 35K for a 2 br lockoff which at resale seems to be in the 5 to 10K range at best.Yikes. Stated that was the best deal going - all other developer units in the system would cost even more and wouldn't show any other options.

I went through the sales presentation on March 8, at Westin Ka'anapali and have the quotes in front of me.

For Lagunamar, I have an 2 bedroom EY platinum at $44.9K, and a 2-bdr EY gold plus at $28.9K. A 2-bdr EOY platinum is $29.9K. Do you know what the $35K quote was for?

I also have some Princeville quotes: 2-bdr EOY $33.5K; 2-bdr EY $55.9K.

I think for a Hawaii property, I've read that there is a $40K minimum for a requalification, so that EOY Princeville probably doesn't make the cut.

 

[jimgior]

I went through this discussion on tug earlier this month - and even though you stated for responders to disregard why you want to do this - you'll get those comments anyway.

To answer your question, you need to find an Starwood agent who knows your plan and will keep an open eye for you. You can see what maint fees are for the various resorts here on TUG. They guy I'm working with keeps me apraised of inventory that pops in - but you need to be ready to move - casue some of them go quickly.

 

[DeniseM]

Jim - When you post on an internet forum, other posters can respond ANY WAY THEY CHOOSE, as long as they don't violate the TUG posting rules.

When we see someone making a decision that we believe they will regret later, we say so.

There is a wealth of info. here - if you choose to ignore it, that's your perogative, but we aren't going to stop providing it.

 

[jarta]

DeniseM ... Does a permitted response include Internet SHOUTING DOWN from the Moderator if someone says such comments were specifically not requested by the OP and the OP has further stated that all developer purchases lose most of their value!

It's always OK ignore the OP's request and to give advice not to buy from the developer. It's also always OK to point out that the OP specifically didn't want that advice (and jim didn't say it couldn't be posted or violated TUG rules). But,

"All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly." Salty

 

[DeniseM]

DeniseM ... Does a permitted response include Internet SHOUTING DOWN from the Moderator if someone says such comments were specifically not requested by the OP and the OP has further stated that all developer purchases lose most of their value!

It's always OK ignore the OP's request and to give advice not to buy from the developer. It's also always OK to point out that the OP specifically didn't want that advice (and jim didn't say it couldn't be posted or violated TUG rules). But,

"All users are expected and required to express their disagreements civilly." Salty

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:

 

[jarta]

DeniseM ... You sure are Spicy today.

BTW, what happened to your tag line, "The Spicy TUG Moderator." It sure seemed to fit. ... eom

 

[oldfool19]

Offer was platinum plus week 2 br lockout floating for 36,200. Also EOY even biennial platinum plus floating for 21K.

 

[oldfool19]

What are your GOALS with this purchase?[/QUOTE

Well I didn't want to bore you all with the mundane details of my situation. But, since you asked:

My almost completely honest reply -

I was just finishing what had been the most enjoyable ski week of my life, spent at the West Riverfront Hotel in Avon when a man who I now recall as red skinned with horns a tail and goat like feet approached me and said something along the lines of "How would you like to have this for one week every year for ALL OF ETERNITY and get some FREE STARPOINTS (without having to give up any more towel service days) to boot". I was weak, I was tempted and I soon found myself in the company of two delightful individuals who plied myself and my significant other with soft drinks, delicious snacks and excellent company.

I was soon educated regarding how I could build on this single purchase and ultimately achieve elite status which would allow me to bestride the world of tourism like the colossus I would soon become. I was given a tour of the spectacular two bedroom LO I would acquire - far nicer than my quite delightful hotel room. Did I want this? Without doubt. Was it all of that and more? Oh yes. Would I sign on the dotted line today? Pen please. Would I ever regret this? Inconceivable. Really? Yes. TOO BAD. NO WESTIN RIVERFRONT FOR YOU. But why why why. Cause we don't sell units in this building fool.

Why so sad . Why so serious. We have a perfect solution. We have a unit in Mexico that will be EVEN BETTER for you. Mexico as in south of the United States Mexico? Si Senor. Home of LOW MF (learning the lingo) Well like do they have mountains there where this resort is? Hmm not exactly. How about snow? uhh No. Can I ski there? Maybe - behind a power boat.

Well perhaps I can most politely ask without offending anyone because after my long day of skiing I really need this soft drink and don't want anyone to take it back why I, a resident of Florida who already has his own fair share of exposure the solar radiation, sand and the gulf of Mexico and who really wants a guaranteed week in prime ski season in the Vail Beaver Creek area with snow and mountains would instead choose to purchase a unit in a location of no interest to me which, unless global warming rapidly reverses, is unlikely to offer any opportunity for snow sports.

Ah Padwan you do not understand and have so much to learn. You are not purchasing a unit in a development in Mexico despite what this contract says. You are purchasing lifetime access to the Avon resort you so covet. And if by some chance you can't exchange into that resort well certainly you can convert your staroptions to star points and stay at that hotel you so love.

And had not divine intervention occurred in the form of what ultimately turned out to be a no big deal event but seemed at the time a minor emergency which forced me to leave the sales meeting before papers had actually been signed I would now be one of those posters lamenting on these very forums that I bought my first time share before I discovered what I should know on a forum such as this.

For since my return I have discovered that trading into Avon Riverfront in prime ski season is a challenge that has defeated even sophisticated masters of the time share interval option trading community. And using starpoints = well when I called the hotel to find out exactly how many starpoints it would cost per night in the hotel in prime ski season I was told I could not make a reservation using star points - cash only (no blackout dates?????) and call back in a few months. And the MF - no big difference between Mexico and Colorado

So if I want Westin Riverfront in prime ski season I need a prime ski season resale I think. But in my first post in this forum I asked (and was answered by Denise) about if I got such a unit but couldn't use it in my week how I could trade it for another week in the same unit (not easily when not part of SVN) and could I even be guaranteed use in the week I purchased (unclear - depends on language of the original contract). So it seemed retroing back into the SVN system would allow me to more cleanly accomplish my goal of having guaranteed access to a Westin Riverfront unit in ski season.

Now I know some of you will answer why time share at all. You can rent a unit for a week and avoid all the complexities of time share ownership.

Well in my first line you may recall I stated this was my almost completely honest answer. But the completely honest answer is because the devil has tempted me and I am thinking of going for elite status somewhere down the line. Please I beg of you dont yell at me, tell me I'm a big dummy or whatever. I am a delicate and sensitive soul. And the next thread after this one in this forum seems to be evolving into a discussion of the elite status issues. And we can always discuss whether my reasons for considering going for elite are valid in another post

I have read the sticky by Denise on retroing -as I said in my initial post the concer is how do you find the least expensive available Westin developer unit to use as your developer purchase.

thanks for all your input. I really have no problem with anyone putting their two cents in about whether one should ever or never retro or should ever or never go for elite (5 star) - I just didn't want to open too many topics in one post.

So that is my goal exactly. Any furthur comments?

 

[hypnotiq]

Best post Ive read on TUG ever!

You sir, are a great story teller. You remind me a lot of my fav uncle. Steve, is that you? LOL

 

[jimgior]

I dont think being elite alone will get you into Riverfront during ski season. Maybe, pick up a resale ski week at Sheraton Mountain Vista as the unit to retro - this way if you can't get into the Westin or decide not to go for elite you still have a great ski week at BC. Also, you can still uses the ski valet at the Westin while staying at the Sheraton.

Starwood owns the property adjacent to the current villas and have/had a plan for more units - then the economy went south. Who know what the future holds.

 

[LisaRex]

Hysterical post!

I agree that you need to find an agent (FredM is a SVO expert and resale agent) who will give you advice on obtaining a resale unit at Westin Riverfront. From there, you can take your time in figuring out whether you want to pursue 5* elite status.

Good luck!

 

[LisaRex]

Psst! Look for "Riverfront" on the Starwood homepage. You may be able to work out a deal.

 

[Pmuppet]

OP owes me $250. I surely shorted my computer monitor with spraying coffee from my nose...lol. That was a funny post.

Glad to see you found tug before you bought. You now qualify as a 1%er in the timeshare owner group.

 

[YYJMSP]

I dont think being elite alone will get you into Riverfront during ski season. Maybe, pick up a resale ski week at Sheraton Mountain Vista as the unit to retro - this way if you can't get into the Westin or decide not to go for elite you still have a great ski week at BC. Also, you can still uses the ski valet at the Westin while staying at the Sheraton.

The only thing I can see that being Elite may get you is the wait-list ability, so that you don't necessarily have to call in over and over again to see if a unit becomes available...

 

[Pmuppet]

The only thing I can see that being Elite may get you is the wait-list ability, so that you don't necessarily have to call in over and over again to see if a unit becomes available...

Yeah, that is a huge perk for me as well. I think having priority room upgrades is also a worthy perk as well.

After further research though, i dont think it warrants a $100,000 investment for me. Might be worthwhile for others, but if elite status lost the wait list exclusiveness, it would be totally worthless to me.

Not to mention, i dont have confidence that the waitlist process performs to the level elite members expect. I suspect there is some slippage of weeks not going to waitlisted folks first also this is purely speculation. I just dont trust processes that are not audited routinely to test performance.

 

[YYJMSP]

Yeah, that is a huge perk for me as well. I think having priority room upgrades is also a worthy perk as well.

Priority room upgrades should only come in to play with SPG Platinum status on the hotel side of things.

After further research though, i dont think it warrants a $100,000 investment for me. Might be worthwhile for others, but if elite status lost the wait list exclusiveness, it would be totally worthless to me.

The up-front and ongoing investment should be justified with vacationing at the specific locations you buy at. The Elite benefits should be treated as a bonus, as there's always the chance that they could change (and they have in the past).

I would hope that if a feature got taken away, that something more valuable/useful would be substituted in its place. Yah, I know, wishful thinking...

Not to mention, i dont have confidence that the waitlist process performs to the level elite members expect. I suspect there is some slippage of weeks not going to waitlisted folks first also this is purely speculation. I just dont trust processes that are not audited routinely to test performance.

Agreed -- it's worked for me the 3 or 4 times I've used it. I don't think that the exact way in which the wait-list integrates with the call-in reservation process has been documented.

 

[LisaRex]

Glad to see you found tug before you bought. You now qualify as a 1%er in the timeshare owner group.

Join me in that club!

 

[oldfool19]

Developer Purchase

Does anyone know: If one has to make a purchase from the developer (retroing a resale unit) does it make any difference from which sales office the purchase is made? Can the sales office at Lagunamar give you a better deal on a Lagunamar unit then a sales office anywhere else? Or can an individual highly motivated sales person give you something that a less motivated sales person cannot.

Or are the terms of all deals dictated from Starwood Central with no local discretion?

Thanks

 

[DeniseM]

Starwood will not deal on PRICE anywhere - they will deal on incentives. In theory, all sales people can help you with requalification, but skill and knowledge with vary widely. The sale Reps. in Mexico (at all resorts) are known for being the most unethical in the business - I would not want to go through them.

A gentle suggestion - if you have more comments/questions about requalifying, post them in the same thread (this thread) for continuity. - Thanks!

 

[oldfool19]

So do you think one sales person (not at a Mexico resort) would offer incentives that another sales person would not? Or are all incentives the same for all sales people all locations? In simple terms if you don't like what you are being offered from one sales person should you try with another one to see if you can get a better deal incentive wise? Or is that a waste of time.

 

[Fredm]

So do you think one sales person (not at a Mexico resort) would offer incentives that another sales person would not? Or are all incentives the same for all sales people all locations? In simple terms if you don't like what you are being offered from one sales person should you try with another one to see if you can get a better deal incentive wise? Or is that a waste of time.

It is a waste of time.

Sales reps do not have any latitude with incentives.

Incentives may vary in time. But, are the same at a point in time.

Now, a Project Director has the latitude to manage the sales budget (within limits). But, they will not make an exception to secure a sale. It would cause a revolt among the sales staff, and invite chaos.

Incentives take the form of StarPoints, one way or another.
Not price. Not StarOptions value of the share(s) purchased.

Retro minimum dollar spend limits/rules have also changed with time. They are the same system-wide, at a point in time.

 

[YYJMSP]

It is a waste of time.

Sales reps do not have any latitude with incentives.

Incentives may vary in time. But, are the same at a point in time.

With our last batch of purchases a little over a year ago, our rep's manager agreed to an extra 35K in SPG points on the purchase of 2 developer units.

 

[Fredm]

With our last batch of purchases a little over a year ago, our rep's manager agreed to an extra 35K in SPG points on the purchase of 2 developer units.

Sure. And anyone who purchased the same two units would have been given the same "nudge". Shopping different sales reps (as the OP asked) would not produce a different result.