Restaurant Refuses To Honor Gift Card -- I'm Still Dumbstruck

[Icarus]

What do you think the odds are that anyone from corporate will even show up? If I were a betting man, I'd almost bet that they won't show up and judgement will be rendered in their absence.

In that case it would be worth it to pay the sheriff to do a till tap. I'd like to see that.

http://www.ocsd.org/divisions/court_operations/civil_process_services/collection_money_judgements/

-David

 

[djs]

The waitress gets the tip, not the restaurant or the manager.

-David

True, but if the waitstaff feel that managment/ownership is taking money out of their pockets by the way gift cards/certificates are honored, maybe things will change. After all, management has to interact with the waitstaff every day.

 

[Kay H]

You go , Hoc. You were treated very rudely for asking for something that is legally yours. I hope you win . Please let us know the ouecome.

 

[ctreelmom]

Good for you, Hoc. I get so riled up over stupidity like this. My only comment as a former waitress involves not leaving a tip. Was your server only doing what his/her boss (the manager) was telling him/her to do? If so, then it's really not fair to stiff him/her, unless, of course, you got bad service to boot. I see you were ignored for 15 minutes. If the server was doing the ignoring, then I wouldn't have tipped either, but it's important to remember that often the servers' hands are tied and they don't have the authority to do the right thing, even though they may want to.

 

[CMF]

Hoc - you're my hero!

No offense Mr. Dave M.

Charles

 

[dougp26364]

In that case it would be worth it to pay the sheriff to do a till tap. I'd like to see that.

http://www.ocsd.org/divisions/court_operations/civil_process_services/collection_money_judgements/

-David

I believe that would fit the term that revenge is a dish best served cold.

 

[Passepartout]

Whenever I use a gift certificate/card, I overtip because I know it's extra hassle for the waitstaff. I'm pretty sure the waitress in Hoc's case was all too aware of the situation and that it didn't involve her. In every restaurant, waitstaff get stiffed for reasons that have nothing to do with them- bad food- crying child nearby- water glass not refilled full enough, soon enough. They don't like it, but it's just the way it is. Even if my beef had been with the manager, I likely would have left something for the waitress, but that's just me, and after a cooling off period, I might try to find a way to, perhaps surreptitiously, or through a friend, slip in and make it up to her.

Hoc, I agree 100% that the manager was out of line, especially with the accusatory tone and name calling. She needs to be taken to task and it appears that California law has provided the teeth. Good luck!

Seems to me that if a business makes the commitment to issue gift cards/certificates, that it is incumbent on them to honor them ad infinitum, and not 'throw away' the card reader.

Jim Ricks

 

[Icarus]

True, but if the waitstaff feel that managment/ownership is taking money out of their pockets by the way gift cards/certificates are honored, maybe things will change. After all, management has to interact with the waitstaff every day.

I guess you never worked for tips. I don't think a place like this cares much about its customers or its staff.

-David

 

[vacationhopeful]

In NJ, when the Sheriff "taps the till drawer", their cut is added onto the debt which is collected. So $1,000 becomes $1,100 out of the drawer.

However, the sheriff in NJ only goes out M-F, nonholidays, and between 8-4PM. But the NJ court allows a "public auction", so a $15,000 plug in cooler ( not attached to real property) can be sold to highest bidder of $1 (for example) and the debt is reduced by only 90 cents. Now, that would cost the business owner WAY more to replace their necessary operating stuff.

 

[Blondie]

I disagree about not involving the press- I'd want to alert other patrons who may be considering gift card purchases here about the restaurant's practices. This is exactly the sort of thing a reporter can dig into and for good reason- protecting consumers. About 12 years ago there was a restaurant near Manchester, NH. A couple had put a deposit down for their wedding. Some weeks before the ceremony one of them was killed in a car accident. The restaurant REFUSED to give the deposit back citing the same old "we held the function room and turned others away blah blah blah nonsense." Finally the press got ahold of the story and you better believe that money got refunded. But, that's not the best part. The place ended up going out of business because people were so outraged they refused to go there. Biggest mistake of thier lives not giving the money back- and for what? Too bad some folks cannot see how bad customer service results in no customers. You just never let an unhappy customer walk away from your establishment.

 

[DonM]

I disagree about not involving the press- I'd want to alert other patrons who may be considering gift card purchases here about the restaurant's practices. This is exactly the sort of thing a reporter can dig into and for good reason- protecting consumers. About 12 years ago there was a restaurant near Manchester, NH. A couple had put a deposit down for their wedding. Some weeks before the ceremony one of them was killed in a car accident. The restaurant REFUSED to give the deposit back citing the same old "we held the function room and turned others away blah blah blah nonsense." Finally the press got ahold of the story and you better believe that money got refunded. But, that's not the best part. The place ended up going out of business because people were so outraged they refused to go there. Biggest mistake of thier lives not giving the money back- and for what? Too bad some folks cannot see how bad customer service results in no customers. You just never let an unhappy customer walk away from your establishment.

Wow- I just about disagree with everything you just said.

First off, The example you gave of the restaurant refusing to return a deposit bears no resemblance to the OP's situation.

Second- The restaurant had a contract with a couple to have a wedding reception. The restaurantor didn't do anything but try and run his business. It wasn't his fault that one of them died. It's tragic but not his fault. It may have been good PR to return the funds, but he wasn't legally bound to- (unless you didn't mention that they were legally entitled to a return of their money by contract?) I think the use of the press in this situation was uncalled for and almost certainly run by the paper just to sensationalize the situation.

Lastly- you seem to almost sadistically enjoy the fact that the business failed. How many people were dependent on that business for their well being?

 

[Beaglemom3]

When I mentioned the press, I meant the local paper, "home town newsy type", doing a human interest/consumer beware type of article. The restaurant will not want the AG's Consumer Protection office to get wind of this type of article on this action, or, non-action, in this case.
Just a suggestion.

Hoc, no matter what tack you take, slam - dunk !

 

[Icarus]

I disagree about not involving the press

lol, disagree with whom? hoc? It's his gift card.

-David

 

[Rose Pink]

It's to bad you can't locate the others who lost money and help them get their just deserts as well.

Class action suit? That could be interesting.

 

[T_R_Oglodyte]

It's to bad you can't locate the others who lost money and help them get their just deserts as well.

Funny how things escalate. From Hoc's original post he might have been satisfied had he received just their desserts. Now he wants their just desserts.

 

[Hoc]

Funny how things escalate. From Hoc's original post he might have been satisfied had he received just their desserts. Now he wants their just desserts.

Pretty much the case. I would have let them take the card and just comp the meal. About $12 cost to them, since they were running a 2-for-1 special in the paper and everyone who was there was using the coupon.

On tipping the waitress, this is clearly the kind of establishment who takes all of all the tips and gives out a percentage of them only to the wait staff. No reason to allow that.

On the newspaper, my goal is perhaps a reckoning, but it's mainly to get what I deserve and make sure they get what they deserve. When you get the press involved, sometimes things get out of control and whatever the result (in whosever favor the end result falls), it's often not fair or just.

On a class action, my goal is to make them pay, not to spend a bunch of money on a lawsuit myself. Class actions are very expensive. This lawsuit cost me $180, which I will get back from them if I win even a dollar. However, it will cost them several thousand, even if they appear and win. That's because a corporation can't appear in court, except through a lawyer.

On whether someone "from corporate" will show up, it won't get that far. First, they have to hire a lawyer, since a corporation can't represent itself in court. Second, they will have to file a written answer to my complaint -- about $600 or so in lawyer's fees and $180 to them. Then, they will have to respond to my motion to make them pay for my service fees, which they will lose -- about $700 in legal fees and about $225 paid to me for the process server. Then, they will have to answer the discovery I will propound -- about $1,200 in legal fees. Then, they will likely have to respond to a motion to compel that I will make because they did not answer the discovery properly -- about $2,000 in legal fees, and possibly a fine paid to me. After that, it will really get expensive for them. Motions, appearances, etc. All because they were unwilling to lose $12 on a comped meal and hoped to keep my $100 without giving me the service for which I paid. Maybe somewhere down the line, eight months or so into the case, I'll make a statutory offer to settle for $72. If they accept it, I can also recover my costs. If they reject it, and I recover anything more than $72 in a trial, they will also have to pay interest, penalties, all of my other costs and expenses, and probably even the cost of an expert witness whom I will hire to explain how they could have found out the balance on the card, even if they had thrown out their machine. If I lose, well, I already spent my $180, and I will have to pay them their $180, but it will have cost them several thousand dollars that they can't get back.

If nothing else, it might cause them to reconsider before trying to steal someone else's money after they sold them a gift card.

 

[Icarus]

On tipping the waitress, this is clearly the kind of establishment who takes all of all the tips and gives out a percentage of them only to the wait staff.

What? They can't do that, Hoc.

-David

 

[Hoc]

What? They can't do that, Hoc.

-David

Yeah, and they can't sell gift cards and then refuse to honor them, claiming they are expired.

Some underhanded restaurants do this. My girlfriend worked at one that did, and she told me that most Korean restaurants do it.

 

[Icarus]

My girlfriend worked at one that did, and she told me that most Korean restaurants do it.

She didn't stay there long, did she? Did she take them to court?

Isn't this place a chain restaurant?

-David

 

[pcgirl54]

This is why it is wise to keep receipts and records. Thank goodness for Amex.

I hope you win. I would be outraged. You have the police report and had the presence of mind to get something in writing signed.

Now when you win that $1073.00 you can take your girfriend to a better breakfast in a great location.

What an idiot that person was.

 

[ctreelmom]

What? They can't do that, Hoc.

-David

Sure they can, David. My first waitressing job in high school was for a family-type chain restaurant and we pooled our tips--money was put into a tip jar under the counter and every pay period, you got a check for your hourly wages and a separate tip check--the amount was based on the hours you worked. However, in this case, one of the servers was in charge of figuring all that out--management didn't touch the tips, but I bet in some places they do.

 

[Mimi39]

Her response: "I'm not signing nothing." How about her blatant use of poor English?

One point about customer service is that if you do everything right the customer won't mention it to anyone, but make a major error like this and the customer will tell everyone they know. I bet this place has already lost a lot of business because of your experience. If she would have said that she couldn't honor the card but the meal would be complimentary and taken the card from you it would have been a "win-win" situation for everyone.

 

[Icarus]

Sure they can, David. My first waitressing job in high school was for a family-type chain restaurant and we pooled our tips--money was put into a tip jar under the counter and every pay period, you got a check for your hourly wages and a separate tip check--the amount was based on the hours you worked. However, in this case, one of the servers was in charge of figuring all that out--management didn't touch the tips, but I bet in some places they do.

I've worked at restaurants that pooled tips. The employees were the only ones responsible for handling the tips, and they were always split at the end of the shift. Management never touched it. Even in your case, the employees were responsible for the daily count and handling of the cash.

Hoc is describing a different practice and stating that the management keeps a portion of the tips.

-David

 

[gorevs9]

In every restaurant, waitstaff get stiffed for reasons that have nothing to do with them- bad food- crying child nearby- water glass not refilled full enough, soon enough. They don't like it, but it's just the way it is. Even if my beef had been with the manager, I likely would have left something for the waitress...

Except on rare occasions, where the service was horrendous, I would always tip the usual 18%-20%.

I know I'm going to get slammed by waiters and waitresses around the world, but one of my pet-peeves is that the tip is ultimately based on the price of the meal vs. the service received. A waiter/waitress would provide the same amount of service regardless of whether the person ordered a $40 entree or an $8 salad.

I'm a bit naive with tipping policies around the world. Some restaurants in Aruba and St. Marteen charged a "service charge", but it was unclear if this was considered a "tip". I cases like this, if I had exceptional service, I would personally give the waiter/waitress some extra $$.

What are some of the other policies in foreign countries?

 

[Don]

When I mentioned the press, I meant the local paper, "home town newsy type", doing a human interest/consumer beware type of article. The restaurant will not want the AG's Consumer Protection office to get wind of this type of article on this action, or, non-action, in this case.
Just a suggestion.

Hoc, no matter what tack you take, slam - dunk !

Along the same line, do any of your local TV stations have a help line that you could call? And since they seem to be breaking a state law, I agree to contact the AG's office. They might be very interested.