Rescinding (12 cancellations in 1 thread!)

[theo]

I was not contacted by salesperson or her manager at all. I didn't receive any confirmation from HGVC but within a couple days saw credit on my credit card account for the exact amount we left. I guess that's confirmation enough! I'm still kindda shocked nobody at HGVC tried to rescue the sale.

Historically at least, Hilton, Hyatt and BlueGreen have all generally tended to just politely accept and process rescissions submitted properly and in a timely fashion.

Westgate and Wyndham, on the other hand --- not so much. Both seem to quite consistently exert an uncanny amount of effort to try to salvage the sale (and their precious commission) upon unwelcome receipt of (soon-to-be-ex) buyer's rescission correspondence. Despite those desperate salvage efforts however, the developer people still know deep down that ultimately they absolutely must comply with the applicable state law and honor and process a timely and properly submitted rescission.

 

[pacodemountainside]

We still have not heard from anyone at Wyndham in regards to our rescission letter. We sent a letter to both of the addresses referenced in the rescission paperwork included with all of the contractual material. Both letters were signed for a week ago. Should I be concerned? We used the sample letter provided in the rescission section on TUG; we included the contract number which was included on EVERY page of the contract. We did not have our letter notarized before sending it; I'm not sure we need to do that though. We (my wife and I) both signed the letter and included our names just like they were written in their contract. I would sleep a little more sound if they would have made some attempt at contact with us. Hopefully, I'll receive written confirmation of our rescission as I've requested.

Give a call at 1-800-251-8736 option 2 or fax at 1-702-304-4217

 

[theo]

I respectfully diasgree...

Give a call at 1-800-251-8736 option 2 or fax at 1-702-304-4217

No possible good can arise from any telephone conversation on a rescission or contract matter. None.

If the rescission correspondence (notarization was neither necessary nor relevant) was postmarked within the time frame provided by applicable state law and sent (hopefully by certified mail) to the correct address, the developer has no other choice or option other than to process the cancellation and issue a full refund.

Telephone conversation on the matter is legally meaningless and can only "muddy up" the waters. Why voluntarily offer and create that opportunity?

 

[pacodemountainside]

This is Wyndham Financial Services operation in Vegas. Just salaried people moving paper work.

Not even close to Grand Desert or Harrahs sales operations.

Since poster is having trouble sleeping IMHO worth a shot.

"I would sleep a little more sound if they would have made some attempt at contact with us. Hopefully, I'll receive written confirmation of our rescission as I've requested"

 

[theo]

This is Wyndham Financial Services operation in Vegas. Just salaried people moving paper work.

Not even close to Grand Desert or Harrahs sales operations.

Since poster is having trouble sleeping IMHO worth a shot.

"I would sleep a little more sound if they would have made some attempt at contact with us. Hopefully, I'll receive written confirmation of our rescission as I've requested"

FYI, QBrew originally stated that the purchase was in Panama City Beach, FL, so I believe that the appropriate Wyndham location to receive and process the rescission letter would be the eastern Wyndham corporate offices in Orlando, FL.

With that info in mind, then I suppose that it couldn't hurt to call the folks out at the Las Vegas location, maybe just to say hello, but I otherwise stand by my advice to stay off the phone altogether on any contract rescission matter. YMMV.

 

[QBrew]

FYI, QBrew originally stated that the purchase was in Panama City Beach, FL, so I believe that the appropriate Wyndham location to receive and process the rescission letter would be the eastern Wyndham corporate offices in Orlando, FL.

With that info in mind, then I suppose that it couldn't hurt to call the folks out at the Las Vegas location, maybe just to say hello, but I otherwise stand by my advice to stay off the phone altogether on any contract rescission matter. YMMV.

So, the following notice was included in the contract paperwork with our unique Contract Number on it (It was also on the main contract page in addition to EVERY other page):

Contract Number 00123-4567890

42. "Purchaser's Nonwaivable Right to Cancel".
You may cancel this Agreement without any penalty or obligation within ten (10) calendar days after the date you sign this Agreement or the date on which you receive the last of nil documents required to be given to you pursuant to section 721.07 (61. Florida Statutes, whichever is later. If you decide to cancel this Agreement, you must notify the Seller in writing of your Intent to cancel. Your notice of cancellation shall he effective upon the date sent and shall be sent to Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc., Attention: Account Controls and Administration - Rescission Dept. at: P.O. Box 94443, Las Vegas, Nevada 89193 or 10750 West Charleston Blvd., Suite 130, Las Vegas, Nevada 89135. Any attempt to obtain a waiver of your cancellation right is void and of no effect. While you may execute ail Closing documents in advance, the Closing, as evidenced by delivery of the deed or other document, before expiration of your ten (10) day cancellation period, is prohibited.*

We mailed (sent certified with return signature verification) the following letter to both of the addresses listed above:

ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan
6277 Sea Harbor Drive
Orlando, FL 32821

7/3/2014

To whom it may concern:

This letter is to inform you that we are exercising our legal right, pursuant to Section 721.07(6) Florida Statutes, to cancel contract number: 00123-4567890 which was purchased by QBrew and Mrs. QBrew on June 30, 2014. We expect a full refund of our deposit. Do not make any additional charges to our line of credit.

Please confirm my legal rescission in writing.

Sincerely,
QBrew Sig
QBrew Name
Mrs. QBrew Sig
Mrs. QBrew Name

 

[theo]

Patience is a virtue...

So, the following notice was included in the contract paperwork with our unique Contract Number on it (It was also on the main contract page in addition to EVERY other page):

Contract Number 00123-4567890

42. "Purchaser's Nonwaivable Right to Cancel".
You may cancel this Agreement without any penalty or obligation within ten (10) calendar days after the date you sign this Agreement or the date on which you receive the last of nil documents required to be given to you pursuant to section 721.07 (61. Florida Statutes, whichever is later. If you decide to cancel this Agreement, you must notify the Seller in writing of your Intent to cancel. Your notice of cancellation shall he effective upon the date sent and shall be sent to Wyndham Vacation Resorts, Inc., Attention: Account Controls and Administration - Rescission Dept. at: P.O. Box 94443, Las Vegas, Nevada 89193 or 10750 West Charleston Blvd., Suite 130, Las Vegas, Nevada 89135. Any attempt to obtain a waiver of your cancellation right is void and of no effect. While you may execute ail Closing documents in advance, the Closing, as evidenced by delivery of the deed or other document, before expiration of your ten (10) day cancellation period, is prohibited.*

We mailed (sent certified with return signature verification) the following letter to both of the addresses listed above:

ClubWyndham Access Vacation Ownership Plan
6277 Sea Harbor Drive
Orlando, FL 32821

7/3/2014

To whom it may concern:

This letter is to inform you that we are exercising our legal right, pursuant to Section 721.07(6) Florida Statutes, to cancel contract number: 00123-4567890 which was purchased by QBrew and Mrs. QBrew on June 30, 2014. We expect a full refund of our deposit. Do not make any additional charges to our line of credit.

Please confirm my legal rescission in writing.

Sincerely,
QBrew Sig
QBrew Name
Mrs. QBrew Sig
Mrs. QBrew Name

You've done well, my friend. I know and appreciate that it's very stressful to wait --- and it could (in a worst case scenario) actually take up to 45 days before you actually have your deposit refund in hand. But in the meantime --- do yourself a favor and stay off the phone on this matter!

Try to continually remind yourself that the law is on your side here. Wyndham is not doing you a personal favor, or extending an act of kindness or benevolence to you in processing your cancellation. They are legally obligated to do so and they have absolutely no other choices or options available to them. It's the law. Period, amen.

P.S. As mentioned previously, the developer has no legal obligation to comply with your submitted request for "confirmation in writing". They might choose to send you something, but they definitely don't have to do so. Their sole legal obligation is to process your cancellation and issue a full refund of your deposit. No more, no less.

 

[Onehotbike]

Yeah the salesman pitch was guilt for not taking the vacations we wanted."your kids will remember this the rest of their lives". YEAH BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE PAYING FOR THIS THE REST OF THEIR LIVES

 

[theo]

Yes and no...

Yeah the salesman pitch was guilt for not taking the vacations we wanted."your kids will remember this the rest of their lives". YEAH BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE PAYING FOR THIS THE REST OF THEIR LIVES

Fear and guilt (and also greed, when it fits) are of course well known and routinely utilized "psychological tools" in the sales world (including timeshares).
However, the truth is that your offspring would never be legally obligated to "inherit" a timeshare obligation. It can simply be declined as an inheritance item.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Fear and guilt (and also greed, when it fits) are of course well known and routinely utilized "psychological tools" in the sales world (including timeshares).
However, the truth is that your offspring would never be legally obligated to "inherit" a timeshare obligation. It can simply be declined as an inheritance item.

Time share salespeople remind me of Vance Packard's expose of psychological marketing techniques back in 1957.


Vance Packard (May 22, 1914 – December 12, 1996) was an American journalist, social critic and author.

He was born in Granville Summit, Pennsylvania, to Philip J. Packard and Mabel Case Packard. Between 1920-32 he attended local public schools in State College, Pennsylvania, where his father managed a dairy farm owned by the Pennsylvania State College (later Penn State University). In 1932 he entered Penn State, majoring in English. He graduated in 1936, and worked briefly for the local newspaper, the Center Daily Times. He earned his master's degree at the Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism in 1937. That year, he joined the Boston Daily Record as a staff reporter and a year later, he married Virginia Matthews.

About 1940, he became a reporter for the Associated Press and in 1942, joined the staff of The American Magazine as a section editor, later becoming a staff writer. The American Magazine closed in July, 1956, and Packard moved over to Collier's where he worked as a writer. Collier's, too, closed by the end of 1956, allowing Packard to devote his full attention to writing books.

In 1957, The Hidden Persuaders was published and received national attention. The book launched Packard's career as a social critic and full-time lecturer and book author. In 1961 he was named a Distinguished Alumnus of Penn State University. He died in 1996 at the Martha's Vineyard Hospital in Massachusetts.



Vance Packard's book The Hidden Persuaders, about media manipulation in the 1950s, sold more than a million copies.

In The Hidden Persuaders, first published in
1957, Packard explores the use of consumer motivational research and other psychological techniques, including depth psychology and subliminal tactics, by advertisers to manipulate expectations and induce desire for products, particularly in the American postwar era. He identified eight "compelling needs" that advertisers promise products will fulfill. According to Packard these needs are so strong that people are compelled to buy products to satisfy them. The book also explores the manipulative techniques of promoting politicians to the electorate. The book questions the morality of using these techniques.

 

[QBrew]

Great news! Today we received a letter from Wyndham stating that they were disappointed that we had decided to rescind our contract! Thank you for all of the guidance and support. I'm sure that tonight's sleep will be very rewarding.

 

[TimeToRun]

Great news! Today we received a letter from Wyndham stating that they were disappointed that we had decided to rescind our contract! Thank you for all of the guidance and support. I'm sure that tonight's sleep will be very rewarding.

Yay!! Congrats! We slept better too after hearing that they were "disappointed." I felt so rested the next morning. Lol

 

[TUGBrian]

up to twelve now!

such a great thread!

 

[TimeToRun]

Question

After all has been said and done, after the rescission was a done deal, we are now getting mail from RCI. There has been a welcome packet with ID cards, and also some general info. Has anybody else received stuff like this? We are just ignoring it and have not logged into the site. However, we are curious to check it out just for fun but haven't yet...

 

[Passepartout]

We have heard of people who maintained their RCI memberships and con tinued to rent Last Calls and Extra Vacation (cash rentals) after getting rid of their resorts. I can't recall anyone keeping the RCI membership after rescinding. But heck, sign on, look around, then after they ask for money or a credit card #, then bail out. No harm, no foul. I'd see if it would let me book a Last Call. Those are full weeks for between $209 & $300.

Jim

 

[theo]

The cart is (only temporarily) in front of the horse...

After all has been said and done, after the rescission was a done deal, we are now getting mail from RCI. There has been a welcome packet with ID cards, and also some general info. Has anybody else received stuff like this? We are just ignoring it and have not logged into the site. However, we are curious to check it out just for fun but haven't yet...

It's simply a matter of the various "new Wyndham buyer" processing events being (temporarily) out of synch and out of sequence here. RCI membership automatically comes along with any developer-direct Wyndham purchase (Wyndham actually owns RCI, as you may already know), so your new RCI membership initiation likely began promptly after you purchased, but before you later rescinded the purchase.

In short, you will certainly find that your new RCI membership will soon be cancelled just as quickly and unexpectedly as the RCI materials first appeared in your mail.

 

[pacodemountainside]

Clarification

Any purchase, be it 28K or a zillion of UDI points from any one includes a "free" RCI membership. The cost is included in $118 mandatory minimum POA fee.

You can bet your bippies when RCI bills VOI Trust for your membership it will bounce.

 

[eman072509]

Hi,

My wife and I got suckered into attending a Wyndham TS sales presentation in Las Vegas. The lying &%@ of a "salesman" attempted to tell us that 105,000 Wyndham points were worth more than 98,000 RCI points. Since I just upgraded my old TS (Yes, I spent more than I should have, but I don't believe I did to bad. For the price I paid, I could have bought an annual one in the same TS resort.)

To make a long story short, after comparing the two, (Discovering TUGBBS YEA!!) we chose to rescind the Wydaham resort. Since I couldn't make heads or tails of the rescind page, I chose to go to the place we bought it from, to rescind in person. (According to Nevada State Law, that is what you can do.) We stood our grounds, and told them NO, NO, and NO we were not going to purchase any other offer, they finally took our old contract, and all of the other "stuff", gave us a copy of the rescind paper, with the contract number on it, Date stamped and initialed by the person who we were told handled people like us who back out of contracts.

I didn't find this thread until today. Did I make a mistake?? Should I have had copies made of the contract?? Thoughts, Ideas??

Eric

 

[theo]

they finally took our old contract, and all of the other "stuff", gave us a copy of the rescind paper, with the contract number on it, Date stamped and initialed by the person who we were told handled people like us who back out of contracts.

I didn't find this thread until today. Did I make a mistake?? Should I have had copies made of the contract?? Thoughts, Ideas??

I'm unclear about just what you mean by "a copy of the rescind paper" as highlighted above. Can you be more specific? I ask this primarily because there generally isn't (AFAIK) a specific form known to be volunteered or provided by Wyndham to help facilitate a contract rescission, so I'm just a bit puzzled by this particular reference.

In any case, I will still make one suggestion. Send a follow up letter, by certified mail and ASAP, specifically referencing your contract number and "thanking" them for receiving and processing your contract rescission, as initiated in person on [insert specific date, time and place here].

Maybe this extra effort will turn out to be redundant and entirely unnecessary, but a belt and suspenders approach certainly can't hurt in terms of providing more hard copy documentation of the timeliness and legal adequacy of the submission of your rescission.

Btw, while I'm not challenging either the accuracy or veracity of your statement, I'm nonetheless curious as to the basis on which you state with some apparent confidence that Nevada law (5 days to rescind, afaik) allows for a "personal appearance" (as opposed to written notification) to rescind a developer contract.

 

[Passepartout]

Well, it doesn't look particularly elegant, but if they took all the stuff, and you have a form signed and dated that says you have rescinded, so be it. Many people don't find out about rescission until they are away from the resort, and worse, too late to do anything about it.

Congratulations, and Welcome to TUG. Stick around. Do some studying, and learn how to have some nice vacations for a whole lot less money.

Jim

 

[eman072509]

I'm unclear about just what you mean by "a copy of the rescind paper" as highlighted above. Can you be more specific? I ask this primarily because there generally isn't (AFAIK) a specific form known to be volunteered or provided by Wyndham to help facilitate a contract rescission, so I'm just a bit puzzled by this particular reference.

In any case, I will still make one suggestion. Send a follow up letter, by certified mail and ASAP, specifically referencing your contract number and "thanking" them for receiving and processing your contract rescission, as initiated in person on [insert specific date, time and place here].

Maybe this extra effort will turn out to be redundant and entirely unnecessary, but a belt and suspenders approach certainly can't hurt in terms of providing more hard copy documentation of the timeliness and legal adequacy of the submission of your rescission.

Btw, while I'm not challenging either the accuracy or veracity of your statement, I'm nonetheless curious as to the basis on which you state with some apparent confidence that Nevada law (5 days to rescind, afaik) allows for a "personal appearance" (as opposed to written notification) to rescind a developer contract.

There is a packet of paper that is put out by the Nevada State HUD. The cover page has writing on it, and superimposed on it talks about your rights. The real estate and TS closing people are required to make you aware of it. Most of the time they gloss over it, and make you sign a paper stating you revived it. On the last page of this document is a form. On the top of the form it stated we could send this form by either in person, by certified mail or UPS/Fedex type service as long as delivery is signed for. There were several addresses on it, and it wasn't clear what address we needed to send it to.

The one I received from my Home TS, (Both the old one, and new one,) had clear instructions, and contract numbers written on it.

The other reason I went in person, is the "Stuff" they gave me, I would either have to check it, or carry it on, or ship it home. The carry on charge for a bag is $50 at the airport.

 

[theo]

There is a packet of paper that is put out by the Nevada State HUD. The cover page has writing on it, and superimposed on it talks about your rights. The real estate and TS closing people are required to make you aware of it. Most of the time they gloss over it, and make you sign a paper stating you revived it. On the last page of this document is a form. On the top of the form it stated we could send this form by either in person, by certified mail or UPS/Fedex type service as long as delivery is signed for. There were several addresses on it, and it wasn't clear what address we needed to send it to.

The one I received from my Home TS, (Both the old one, and new one,) had clear instructions, and contract numbers written on it.

Got it. Thanks for the more detailed explanation, which now makes considerably more sense to me. I can't say that I've ever previously heard of any other U.S. states requiring that any such separate, extensive materials pertaining to contract rescission rights be so overtly provided to a buyer. Good for Nevada!

That being said, I still think that, even if it's ultimately redundant, a follow up letter of "thanks" for processing your rescission, as previously suggested, can't possibly hurt --- just in case the weasels might possibly attempt to play any games regarding the validity or timeliness of your rescission. Your call though...

 

[pacodemountainside]

Theo:

You might want to check this thread for more back ground information.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214930

 

[vacationhopeful]

We have heard of people who maintained their RCI memberships and con tinued to rent Last Calls and Extra Vacation (cash rentals) after getting rid of their resorts. I can't recall anyone keeping the RCI membership after rescinding. But heck, sign on, look around, then after they ask for money or a credit card #, then bail out. No harm, no foul. I'd see if it would let me book a Last Call. Those are full weeks for between $209 & $300.

Jim

I would try and establish the RCI account ... stranger things have happen ... the worst that happens is after a day or so, the account disappears. But I suspect it will be "live" for a least a year ... it is those dang computers ... RCI got your info from some computer download to send you the email. And they would ONLY send you an email IF they were given your info.

PS And that is HOW I have gotten my 5th RCI account .... and after 4 years, it is still alive and good. Of course, it is in the OLD OWNERS names.

 

[TimeToRun]

I would try and establish the RCI account ... stranger things have happen ... the worst that happens is after a day or so, the account disappears. But I suspect it will be "live" for a least a year ... it is those dang computers ... RCI got your info from some computer download to send you the email. And they would ONLY send you an email IF they were given your info.

PS And that is HOW I have gotten my 5th RCI account .... and after 4 years, it is still alive and good. Of course, it is in the OLD OWNERS names.

Actually we received a welcome packet with ID cards via snail mail. I think I will check it out this weekend. Just for fun :whoopie: