• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 26 years!

    Join tens of thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $14,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $14 Million dollars
  • Follow the TUG Member Banner as it travels the world on vacation with Timeshare owners! Also sign up to get the banner sent to you so you can submit a photo of your vacation with the banner to share with TUG! Banner Thread
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free! Join tens of thousands of other owners who get this every week! Latest resort reviews and the most important topics discussed by owners during the week!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    Read more Here
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Resale points EVER be counted towards VIP status???

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
I stated, Wyndham "can" not will offer them in the new level. It's still unknown what benefits will be offered, but benefits will have to increase in order to make sales.
Sales is what drives profits For Wyndham. Sales is also responsible for cheap resales and cheap rentals. This I am very thankful for. Without the aggressive sales tactics and half truths VIP owners would not be able to buy resale points to use at VIP discount levels.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
Yes, this is my understanding as well. I can certainly understand the sensitivity to walking things back only to reintroduce them later. That said, if grandfathering is still in effect, and all indicators are that it will be in effect for Privileges, then I'm not sure I agree in entirety that current owners will have to upgrade to a higher level. If anything, there are early indicators that current VIP owners are going to have better benefits under Privileges - without having to make an additional purchase, with the clear understanding that the entire program is subject to change of course. For instance, all current VIPG and VIPP owners can now obtain a free upgrade to WR Diamond status - a Privileges benefit - right now. That's a pretty good perk IMHO - as someone who uses WR points quite a bit for free hotel stays - it's meaningful to me.
I am more interested in the possible 65% discount perk that has been talked about.
 

HitchHiker71

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
1,112
Points
224
Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
Also using that Diamond status to get Diamond status at Ceasers is a new and potentially useful benefit.
Yep I did this as well!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HitchHiker71

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
1,112
Points
224
Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
I am more interested in the possible 65% discount perk that has been talked about.
That’s only for Founders level AFAIK, and I thought it was 60% not 65% for the discount window.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bobinmich

TUG Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Messages
118
Reaction score
77
Points
88
Resorts Owned
wyndham
If you buy at least 400,000 points retail, you can use all your points on silver benefits (retail and resale), except for club pass(you are limited to the number of retail points that you own). However, 400,000 retail plus 300,000 resale point will not stack to give you gold benefits.

Also, VIP benefits do not apply to club pass resorts, so if you have any interest in staying at the Worldmark properties, you are better off buying Worldmark resale than VIP.

So, if you buy 1,000,000 points resale for very cheap....you can then buy 400k retail and all 1,400,000 points are ELIGBLE for the VIP discounts (point reduction, HK benefits and unlimited reservations, etc …?) IF you buy enough retail points to get you to those benefits? Silver, gold, etc?
 

bendadin

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
452
Points
143
Location
Virginia
I was just told at an update that it would be 65% all reservations. He also said that the only PR that would be grandfathered were the ones that own 1.4 million already.

So I would hesitate believing anything from him
 

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
910
Reaction score
704
Points
154
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
497,000 Club Wyndham Points
So, if you buy 1,000,000 points resale for very cheap....you can then buy 400k retail and all 1,400,000 points are ELIGBLE for the VIP discounts (point reduction, HK benefits and unlimited reservations, etc …?) IF you buy enough retail points to get you to those benefits? Silver, gold, etc?

Yes. Megarenters usually own 1,001,000 points retail to get 50% off 60 days out, unit upgrades, unlimited reservations and HK, and 30 guest certificates (an extra 15 past VIPP). The way that they do it is by buying two 3 bedroom PICs and purchasing the remaining 493,000 points for about $70,000 to get to 1,001,000 points for VIPP, then picking up a few extra million resale points at Bali Hai, Canterbury, Panama City, Grand Desert etc. (low maintenance fee resorts) and renting out all of their millions of points using the their VIPP benefits.
 

Richelle

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,927
Reaction score
1,392
Points
223
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
Wyndham Canterbury
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
I was just told at an update that it would be 65% all reservations. He also said that the only PR that would be grandfathered were the ones that own 1.4 million already.

So I would hesitate believing anything from him
The last telesales rep I spoke to said there will be no 60% or 65% discount. They were originally considering it, but they nixed it. I assume they will have the same 50% discount that Platnium has. Obviously that is subject to change too.
 

bendadin

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
452
Points
143
Location
Virginia
Yes. Megarenters usually own 1,001,000 points retail to get 50% off 60 days out, unit upgrades, unlimited reservations and HK, and 30 guest certificates (an extra 15 past VIPP). The way that they do it is by buying two 3 bedroom PICs and purchasing the remaining 493,000 points for about $70,000 to get to 1,001,000 points for VIPP, then picking up a few extra million resale points at Bali Hai, Canterbury, Panama City, Grand Desert etc. (low maintenance fee resorts) and renting out all of their millions of points using the their VIPP benefits.
Or regular people have ownerships that look like that and aren't mega renters. Maybe it is just being smart.
 

Richelle

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,927
Reaction score
1,392
Points
223
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
Wyndham Canterbury
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Yes. Megarenters usually own 1,001,000 points retail to get 50% off 60 days out, unit upgrades, unlimited reservations and HK, and 30 guest certificates (an extra 15 past VIPP). The way that they do it is by buying two 3 bedroom PICs and purchasing the remaining 493,000 points for about $70,000 to get to 1,001,000 points for VIPP, then picking up a few extra million resale points at Bali Hai, Canterbury, Panama City, Grand Desert etc. (low maintenance fee resorts) and renting out all of their millions of points using the their VIPP benefits.
They would also credit pool three years' worth of points and then sell the resale contract, so they didn't have to pay maintenance fees on those three years' worth of points. That increased their profit margin.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
Or regular people have ownerships that look like that and aren't mega renters. Maybe it is just being smart.
And how much does this cost the Club by a few VIp renters taking advantage of buying resale deeds to use with the VIP discounts. When these resale contracts are pulled from using VIP benefits like the mega renters were shut out tell me how smart you are then. Ron was blamed for costing the club members by playing the system. A few Vip members here think that they can play it also. Make no mistake about it Wyndham has resale deeds being used as a VIP benefit on the top of their list of costly benefits to remove.
 

HitchHiker71

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
1,112
Points
224
Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
The last telesales rep I spoke to said there will be no 60% or 65% discount. They were originally considering it, but they nixed it. I assume they will have the same 50% discount that Platnium has. Obviously that is subject to change too.
Well, at least they are consistently inconsistent LOL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bendadin

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
452
Points
143
Location
Virginia
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And how much does this cost the Club by a few VIp renters taking advantage of buying resale deeds to use with the VIP discounts. When these resale contracts are pulled from using VIP benefits like the mega renters were shut out tell me how smart you are then. Ron was blamed for costing the club members by playing the system. A few Vip members here think that they can play it also.

Are you calling ME a megarenter?

I'm just saying that it is a stretch to say if someone is Platinum, comes in with PICs, and owns at Bali Hai, Canterbury, PCB, and GD automatically makes them a megarenter.

So if I am reading this correctly, you expect my account to be shut down simply because of what I own. Hmm.
 
Last edited:

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
They would also credit pool three years' worth of points and then sell the resale contract, so they didn't have to pay maintenance fees on those three years' worth of points. That increased their profit margin.
It was very good until Wyndham found out how many were gaming the system. I compare it to VIP owners buying millions of resale points and using them for the VIP discounts. Its only a matter of time before Wyndham shuts this abuse down. How much does this abuse of resale points cost all Wyndham owners?
 

HitchHiker71

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
1,112
Points
224
Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
The last telesales rep I spoke to said there will be no 60% or 65% discount. They were originally considering it, but they nixed it. I assume they will have the same 50% discount that Platnium has. Obviously that is subject to change too.
You know it’s interesting, I have an older screenshot of the original Privileges brochure that showed the 60% for Founders right in the brochure. The current brochure no longer lists this under the Founders section:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
And how much does this cost the Club by a few VIp renters taking advantage of buying resale deeds to use with the VIP discounts. When these resale contracts are pulled from using VIP benefits like the mega renters were shut out tell me how smart you are then. Ron was blamed for costing the club members by playing the system. A few Vip members here think that they can play it also.

Are you calling ME a megarenter?

I'm just saying that it is a stretch to say if someone is Platinum, comes in with PICs, and owns at Bali Hai, Canterbury, PCB, and GD automatically makes them a megarenter.

So if I am reading this correctly, you expect my account to be shut down simply because of what I own. Hmm.[/QUOTE]
Not talking about renting. Its the abuse of buying resale points millions and using them with developer purchased VIP benefits. Wyndham has this abuse on the radar to fix. Has been abused and is costing all club members as did the cancel and rebook and stripping of deeds.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
2,114
Reaction score
838
Points
223
So, if you buy 1,000,000 points resale for very cheap....you can then buy 400k retail and all 1,400,000 points are ELIGBLE for the VIP discounts (point reduction, HK benefits and unlimited reservations, etc …?) IF you buy enough retail points to get you to those benefits? Silver, gold, etc?
Yes this is correct. Thats until Wyndham puts a end to this abuse of VIP benefits that cost all club members. Clearly a abuse of VIP benefits costing all club members.
 
Last edited:

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
910
Reaction score
704
Points
154
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
497,000 Club Wyndham Points
I think they are going to roll that out as a change and only let points that count towards VIP be used for VIP privileges. Another reason why I don't care to buy retail points; I see it coming. It's just like cancel/rebook and unlimited GCs. It can be easily changed within the system. They already have a cap for Club Pass bookings where it can only be up to the amount of retail points that you have. They could just implement it to all bookings where they pull points from your retail contracts first and once you've used those all up in a year, it will then pull points from your resale deeds and not allow VIP benefits.
 

paxsarah

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
2,018
Reaction score
1,158
Points
273
Location
Athens, GA
Resorts Owned
Wyndham Ocean Boulevard and Flagstaff
It was very good until Wyndham found out how many were gaming the system. I compare it to VIP owners buying millions of resale points and using them for the VIP discounts. Its only a matter of time before Wyndham shuts this abuse down. How much does this abuse of resale points cost all Wyndham owners?
VIPs (not only megarenters, though also megarenters) were doing this all through the account freeze crisis and the eventual changes to the credit pool and cancel/rebook that came through in 2017. Wyndham surely was aware of it then, and could have chosen to shut it down with all of the other changes they made at that time. They didn't. If they considered it abuse, they could have done something about it at any point. And they still might (because it's Wyndham and everything is subject to change), but the scale of the "abuse" you're describing is nothing like the tens (hundreds?) of millions of points that were being pulled from the future into the present and then abandoned as stripped contracts.
 

bendadin

TUG Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2016
Messages
1,595
Reaction score
452
Points
143
Location
Virginia
You know it’s interesting, I have an older screenshot of the original Privileges brochure that showed the 60% for Founders right in the brochure. The current brochure no longer lists this under the Founders section:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well then sales can "interject" what they like. I've heard 60 and 65. I've also heard all inclusive on every day. Right. I just heard that they were working on airport clearance for owners. I also heard that PR should divest and buy CWA because it will suit owners better.

I hope that some information comes out at the owner's meeting. The misinformation out there is getting ridiculous.
 
Last edited:

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
674
Points
223
Location
USA! USA! USA!
Well then sales can "interject" what they like. I've heard 60 and 65. I've also heard all inclusive on every day. Right. I just heard that they were working on airport clearance for owners. I also heard that PR should divest and buy CWA because it will suit owners better. I hope that some information comes out at the owner's meeting. The misinformation out there is getting ridiculous.
I heard different level owners will wear colored capes to ID which level they own, with the highest level owners wearing purple capes to show they are at the highest end of the Wyndham caste system. Those without capes are not privileged and have to carry the privileged owners luggage. It's just what I heard, or maybe dreamt.
 
Last edited:

Richelle

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
1,927
Reaction score
1,392
Points
223
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Bali Hai Villas
Wyndham Canterbury
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Yes this is correct. Thats until Wyndham puts a end to this abuse of VIP benefits that cost all club members. Clearly a abuse of VIP benefits costing all club members.
The changes they made to combat mega renters affected everyone, but the target was definitely the mega renters. The amount of people that would be affected by resale changes would be much larger. They also have to be careful about making resale points even less desirable. The harder it is to unload a resale contract (because it has to many restrictions), the more people would walk away leaving Wyndham and the resorts holding the bag. Ovations can only take so much inventory before they will have to start rejecting or being more selective. From what I hear, Diamond is even harder to unload on the resale market then Wyndham is because of their restrictions on resale. If they make changes it might be more like we cannot use them at new resorts that open up. Or we cannot use them with new programs like they did with Wyndham rewards. Also, if they take away the ability to use our VIP benefits with resale, it would make VIP less desirable too. There will be fewer willing to upgrade or buy in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

HitchHiker71

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2018
Messages
1,237
Reaction score
1,112
Points
224
Location
Delaware
Resorts Owned
Outer Banks Beach Club I (PIC Plus)
Colonies at Williamsburg (PIC Plus)
WCA VIP Gold (718k EY)
National Harbor Resale (689k)
I think they are going to roll that out as a change and only let points that count towards VIP be used for VIP privileges. Another reason why I don't care to buy retail points; I see it coming. It's just like cancel/rebook and unlimited GCs. It can be easily changed within the system. They already have a cap for Club Pass bookings where it can only be up to the amount of retail points that you have. They could just implement it to all bookings where they pull points from your retail contracts first and once you've used those all up in a year, it will then pull points from your resale deeds and not allow VIP benefits.
Anything is possible, but taking this route would inevitably upset the segment of owners who have collectively and historically made the largest dollar investments into Wyndham over time. Doing anything that upsets your most loyal segment of owners is not good business practice no matter how you slice it. This is why the statement "subject to change" while legally accurate with respect to the entire VIP program, which could include termination of the entire program, is highly unlikely.

Since I'm in a sharing mood, what I think will happen is that Wyndham will come up with a way to allow resale contract benefits to stay intact for VIP owners, while altering the structure used for resale only owners over time. What I'm about to say is going to be a bit controversial, but I think something along this line will come into existence in the foreseeable future. Long story short, Wyndham will create a new trust, similar to CWA, that will start to hold resale contracts and deeds. Call it CWR (Club Wyndham Resale) for sake of argument. When resale only purchasers file the paperwork with Wyndham to transfer ownership, the deed(s) associated with that resale contract will be transferred into the CWR trust. The CWR trust can then have limits placed upon it when trading into CWP or any of the other trusts that already exist. Initially this new trust will not have any limits placed upon it when trading into CWP other than the current limits already in place for resale contract owners - such as no Club Pass or Plus Partners program access for example.

Moving forward, what this allows Wyndham to do is to segment resale inventory via the new trust - and to control what other inventory resale owners can access over time. This same approach would also allow VIP owners - who also hold resale contracts - to keep their VIP privileges attached to resale contracts - because the VIP resale contracts will not be transferred into the CWR trust - the inventory attached to these contracts will stay intact within the current trusts (CWA/CWS). Here's the controversial part. We've all heard rumors that Wyndham may place additional limitations on resale owners. Much like Disney is now placing limits on resale, and Hilton has started down this same path. Wyndham, IMHO, will follow suit, it's simply a question of how and when. Let's assume for a moment that 50% of Wyndham ownership is now resale only owners. What this approach would allow Wyndham to do is to then start placing limits on what inventory CWR can access in the other trusts and can even potentially alter the trading power for CWR into CWP. Would Wyndham do something like this? Very gradually over time would be the only way it could work. The way they would probably start doing this is to draw a line in the sand and say that after a certain date, all new resale contracts processed by Wyndham will migrate into CWR, while current resale holders will stay intact in the current trusts. This would start moving net new resale inventory into CWR that would grow over time. What Wyndham may choose to do is to limit resale only owners to only the inventory available within the CWR trust, while the developer points owners can access all inventory across all trusts. If we assume that the ownership is 50/50 today for sake of argument, that means that developer points owners would have access to 100% of the available inventory - while resale owners only have access to 50% of the available inventory - and only inventory owned by other resale owners. There are lots of caveats here - but something like this is what I would at least consider doing if I were Wyndham - and wanted to truly start to place more value on owners who purchase developer points vs resale only owners and to gradually head in a different direction over time by gradually placing more limits on resale owners.

Using the above listed model, Wyndham could also then easily allow for VIP owners with resale contracts to also use their resale points with Club Pass and other trusts/programs, while ensuring that resale only owners remain restricted since the CWR trust - because the rulesets are enforced more simply and more easily at the trust level - unilaterally - instead of the current system where the rulesets are dependent upon the contract flag itself (if the contract is flagged resale).

This is something that would need to occur very gradually as doing so too quickly would result in resale owners dumping their ownership enmasse. But over time an approach like this would place more value on purchasing developer points - because you would get access to 100% of the system - while also devaluing resale ownership - because resale only owners would only receive access to a minority of the inventory in the system over time. This is what Disney has already started down the path of doing, and Hilton is not far behind from what I've heard.
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
674
Points
223
Location
USA! USA! USA!
I don't think Wyndham can restrict a sale. They manage the locations, not outright own. And unless a deed specifically states something that restricts a sale it would be for first right of refusal. Either way, you can't be force to own something forever. Sales weasels tried that tactic when they were pushing Pathways as a way out.
 
Top