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Renting Wyndham

Sandi Bo

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These threads are about Wyndham attacking owners who are renting, and when owners want to state their displeasure on TUG, because this is usually a safe place, we get bullied by TUG members. We cannot even dialogue on TUG about a big corporation who is indeed bullying without vitriol from TUG members who think we are breaking a rule, a rule that was added to the Wyndham website arbitrarily.
Agree except I would say used to be a safe place...
 

rickandcindy23

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Rolltydr

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Alternate take. We can’t disagree and have a discussion about renting and Wyndham’s right to change the rules without being called bullies by the renters.
 

billymach4

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These threads are about Wyndham attacking owners who are renting, and when owners want to state their displeasure on TUG, because this is usually a safe place, we get bullied by TUG members. We cannot even dialogue on TUG about a big corporation who is indeed bullying without vitriol from TUG members who think we are breaking a rule, a rule that was added to the Wyndham website arbitrarily.
This is definitely an insider issue. Appreciate the high level overview. I have a curiosity interest in Wyndham due to their properties in the New England area. Particularly in Rhode Island Since it is an easy drive from my current location.
 

Sandi Bo

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Alternate take. We can’t disagree and have a discussion about renting and Wyndham’s right to change the rules without being called bullies by the renters.
Sadly, people can't state their opinion about Wyndham without the thread quickly digressing to name calling/belittling of posters. I'm not saying by you. You can have whatever opinion you like. But direct name calling going on has really ruined TUG for me. I'm surprised continues to go on, and yet it does. Just can't say anything anymore, I am vowing to stay off of TUG a bit more, I'm trying, it's an addiction (and not healthy). Be kind. That's my alternate take. Ha... I leave with a story, someone was letting their 6 year old jump into the hot tub during a recently. When my friend reprimanded the boy, the Mom jumped all over my friend, said she was just about to correct the boy and to leave the correction to his Mama. She was wearing a shirt that said 'Be Nice'. The world today.
 

Lsfinn

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Can anyone point me toward where in the contract documents there are rules regarding renting points? I'm especially interested in rules that have a specific carveout for ExtraHolidays.
Thanks!
 

bnoble

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There is no blanket prohibition against renting, and so there is correspondingly no carve-out for EH. There is language that forbids (or at least disclaims) using an ownership for "commercial purposes" that I am too busy to look up right now, but there are no concrete/actionable definitions of "commercial" that would be helpful to an owner trying to suss out where the line might be.

There are some rules about how many GCs one can use at certain resorts and during certain dates. IIRC, someone tried to give a "restricted" reservation to EH and it was declined. Not sure if they still do that or not, but at least at the time EH would not take a reservation that was restricted for GC use by owners.
 
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WManning

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I feel there should be a website praiseron.com
These threads are about Wyndham attacking owners who are renting, and when owners want to state their displeasure on TUG, because this is usually a safe place, we get bullied by TUG members. We cannot even dialogue on TUG about a big corporation who is indeed bullying without vitriol from TUG members who think we are breaking a rule, a rule that was added to the Wyndham website arbitrarily.

Best way to beat them is to join them at their game. If rules change you must adapt to new strategies. If you can't adapt Best course of action is to tap out.
 

chapjim

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There is no blanket prohibition against renting, and so there is correspondingly no carve-out for EH. There is language that forbids (or at least disclaims) using an ownership for "commercial purposes" that I am too busy to look up right now, but there are no concrete/actionable definitions of "commercial" that would be helpful to an owner trying to suss out where the line might be.

There are some rules about how many GCs one can use at certain resorts and during certain dates. IIRC, someone tried to give a "restricted" reservation to EH and it was declined. Not sure if they still do that or not, but at least at the time EH would not take a reservation that was restricted for GC use by owners.

That was me. It was an item being discussed here so I tried it. To the surprise of many, EH refused to take it. I'm not sure what I would have done if EH had taken it.
 
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CO skier

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IIRC, someone tried to give a "restricted" reservation to EH and it was declined. Not sure if they still do that or not, but at least at the time EH would not take a reservation that was restricted for GC use by owners.
What should be more clearly stated is that the reason to begin the process by reviewing the Owner-Only dates first is that these dates may not be booked for an Extra Holidays listing.
EH process.jpg
 

jules54

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I keep reading in these threads about commercial renting about we knew what we were getting into when we signed the contract with Wyndham. I have never signed a contract with Wyndham. My one contract I bought from the developer was not a Wyndham affliate when I purchased the contract that happened after I already owned the contract. I can guarantee there was never anything I signed that warned me I couldn’t rent my reservations. I was encouraged by every salesman I ever spoke to that renting my reservations to pay my maintenance fees was the thing to do. Everything else I bought was resale so no signing anything for Wyndham there either.
Is this an automatic thing just taken for granted because you pay monthly or yearly maintenance fees to Wyndham. I’m really curious about this.
 

CO skier

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Is this an automatic thing just taken for granted because you pay monthly or yearly maintenance fees to Wyndham. I’m really curious about this.
Yes, regardless whether or not you signed a contract, if you have and use Wyndham points you are subject to the terms of the points Trust.

"WHEREAS, the Points allocated to a Member may be used to reserve Trust Properties pursuant to the procedures described in this Trust Agreement and the FairShare Plus Member’s Directory;"

On page 254 of the current Member’s Directory:

“The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes.”
 

jules54

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Yes, regardless whether or not you signed a contract, if you have and use Wyndham points you are subject to the terms of the points Trust.

"WHEREAS, the Points allocated to a Member may be used to reserve Trust Properties pursuant to the procedures described in this Trust Agreement and the FairShare Plus Member’s Directory;"

On page 254 of the current Member’s Directory:

“The Program is for a Member’s own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes.”

Thank you CO skier
Subject to terms of the trust! Glad to know I didn’t actually sign something blindly that I don’t remember signing.
 

T-Dot-Traveller

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That’s not it at all. But some people insist on having the same argument over. And over. And over. And over.

In the immortal words of The Rock: it doesn’t matter who got the better of whom, who was right, ........
Nice YouTube
**************
Do you send it to students who don't like their earned grade ?
LOL
 

HitchHiker71

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Thank you CO skier
Subject to terms of the trust! Glad to know I didn’t actually sign something blindly that I don’t remember signing.

There's also the website Terms of Use that everyone who uses the Wyndham owner website inherently agrees to whether they realize it or not:

 

troy12n

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OMG all this talk of safe spaces, and the plight of the poor, downtrodden, disaffected mega renter... PUHLEAZE...
 

flindberg

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I'm an owner of Wyndham points. Wyndham has one raison d'etre - profit. They'll soak you any which way they can with corporate lawyers constantly tuning the fine print. Buyer beware.
 
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Rolltydr

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A for profit corporation trying to make a profit? Say it ain’t so! :rolleyes:

If Wyndham doesn’t turn a profit, they will be out of business and we will no longer have a timeshare. I really enjoy mine so I hope they continue prioritizing profit.
 

am1

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Another context would be that the automatic upgrades Wyndham introduced defeated the predatory practice of commercial renters (bullies) who scammed the system by booking armloads (or more) of premium 3 and 4 bedroom Presidential units at 13 months then using a loophole to cancel and rebook those units withing 60 days at half the cost of a studio or 1 bedroom.

How can anyone think Wyndham is a bully by introducing Owner Priority Booking to minimize commercial renting and maximize occupancy by owners who bought into a Vacation Club for their personal use?

Seems like the profiteers just have sour grapes because the changes have put more Club Wyndham owners and fewer "anybody" renters in Club units -- and killed the profits.
I booked armloads of presidential units as well as other sizes. At 15 days I would cancel and rebook at 14 days. Or I would cancel book the middle 3 or 4 days and wait for the ends to be booked then cancel the middle. A way to limit the competition.
One December I had 50 million points show up in my account. The only thing that resolved it was they expired. I do not know what we’re mine and Wyndhams but I did my best to use theirs by cancelling by reservations that may have been using a further out use year and use the ones that weee set to expire. Think of it a free roll. That and no incentive to cancel. Those points were never addressed even in the end.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. Other times if I cancelled a reservation points would comeback but reservation would not cancel. No one could explain it. Other side is once there was a 10 nightly limit whose fault is it that I cancelled a unit but it never actually cancelled but I was over the 10 unit limit?
Merging accounts generated extra guest confirmations and duplicate reservations that I had to cancel. As well to move points between accounts one just has to transfer contracts and between accounts and that would do it.
Or buying retail, using all available points and rescinding. That happened to me by accident. No deductions. 0 auditing went on for the longest time.
But notice when I was in it none of this was mentioned on tug. I would rather keep on keeping on then tell people how I was able to do what I did.
 

WManning

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I booked armloads of presidential units as well as other sizes. At 15 days I would cancel and rebook at 14 days. Or I would cancel book the middle 3 or 4 days and wait for the ends to be booked then cancel the middle. A way to limit the competition.
One December I had 50 million points show up in my account. The only thing that resolved it was they expired. I do not know what we’re mine and Wyndhams but I did my best to use theirs by cancelling by reservations that may have been using a further out use year and use the ones that weee set to expire. Think of it a free roll. That and no incentive to cancel. Those points were never addressed even in the end.

That was just the tip of the iceberg. Other times if I cancelled a reservation points would comeback but reservation would not cancel. No one could explain it. Other side is once there was a 10 nightly limit whose fault is it that I cancelled a unit but it never actually cancelled but I was over the 10 unit limit?
Merging accounts generated extra guest confirmations and duplicate reservations that I had to cancel. As well to move points between accounts one just has to transfer contracts and between accounts and that would do it.
Or buying retail, using all available points and rescinding. That happened to me by accident. No deductions. 0 auditing went on for the longest time.
But notice when I was in it none of this was mentioned on tug. I would rather keep on keeping on then tell people how I was able to do what I did.
Do you feel your partly responsible for the VIP loopholes being pretty much eliminated now? Do you think any of the VIP loopholes would of been addressed if there wasn't so much commercial use of the club? Did Wyndham buy your ownership or did you just walk away?
 

am1

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Do you feel your partly responsible for the VIP loopholes being pretty much eliminated now? Do you think any of the VIP loopholes would of been addressed if there wasn't so much commercial use of the club? Did Wyndham buy your ownership or did you just walk away?
Sure as without me there would have been less loopholes. I was only trying to maximize the value of my ownership. Just as the sales people told me to do.
 

troy12n

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[DELETED]
 
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ronparise

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Wyndham wanted you to cease and desist with your rental business.
You stopped renting.
Who backed down?:wave:

Wyndham froze my accounts and said they needed to do an audit to determine how it was that I had 90 million points in reservations but only owned contracts that generated only 10 million points a year They said they needed to do an audit...(no mention of rentals)

I spoke to a VP (Legal) He asked how it was possible that my account looked the way it did. That doesnt sound like bullying, but I was dealing with a lawyer from our first call.. It felt like intimidation. In any case I told him how I used the credit pool to strip future points out of the contracts and then sold the stripped contracts. I also told him that ironically, my buyer was Wyndham. (that seemed to upset him)

The audit was never done but they made me an offer. The offer was that i would sign all my ownerships back to them and in exchange they wouldnt sue me.
That felt more like a demand than an offer and felt like bullying to me. As I told my wife and anyone else that would listen to me. I felt like I was dealing with Tony Soprano and he had his foot on my neck when he made the offer

So no audit, no accusation of wrong doing just a pissed off lawyer that thought I had taken advantage of The Wyndham Worldwide Corp. and a demand to, (without compensation) sign my deeds back to them.. or they would sue me. By the way, the offer was never put in writing

Did I stand up to them?? You decide.

My response was. "Knock yourself out, You can do what ever you want, but Im not going to make it easy, Sue me," and I hung up the phone

Was I bullied?, did I stand up to them? ...yes and yes

Did it work out well for me? Yea I think so, Within a couple of months I did sign everything back to Wyndham, (20 million wyndham points and 400,thousand world mark credits) in exchange for a ton of money
 

ronparise

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@ronparise where can I read about your journey with Wyndham. Been in and out ot TUG for years. Mostly follow the Marriott trend. Would like to read about your experience.

You could read all my posts on TUG (over 12000) and on the Worldmark owners forum

As it happens I blew up my car (at 385000 miles) this past weekend so Im stuck at home for a while Ill see what I can pull together
 

WManning

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Wyndham froze my accounts and said they needed to do an audit to determine how it was that I had 90 million points in reservations but only owned contracts that generated only 10 million points a year They said they needed to do an audit...(no mention of rentals)

I spoke to a VP (Legal) He asked how it was possible that my account looked the way it did. That doesnt sound like bullying, but I was dealing with a lawyer from our first call.. It felt like intimidation. In any case I told him how I used the credit pool to strip future points out of the contracts and then sold the stripped contracts. I also told him that ironically, my buyer was Wyndham. (that seemed to upset him)

The audit was never done but they made me an offer. The offer was that i would sign all my ownerships back to them and in exchange they wouldnt sue me.
That felt more like a demand than an offer and felt like bullying to me. As I told my wife and anyone else that would listen to me. I felt like I was dealing with Tony Soprano and he had his foot on my neck when he made the offer

So no audit, no accusation of wrong doing just a pissed off lawyer that thought I had taken advantage of The Wyndham Worldwide Corp. and a demand to, (without compensation) sign my deeds back to them.. or they would sue me. By the way, the offer was never put in writing

Did I stand up to them?? You decide.

My response was. "Knock yourself out, You can do what ever you want, but Im not going to make it easy, Sue me," and I hung up the phone

Was I bullied?, did I stand up to them? ...yes and yes

Did it work out well for me? Yea I think so, Within a couple of months I did sign everything back to Wyndham, (20 million wyndham points and 400,thousand world mark credits) in exchange for a ton of money
You beat Wyndham at their own game. The part that probably upset them the most was that Wyndham was buying the stripped deeds. I'm guesing they bought through a third party?
 
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