• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 31st anniversary: Happy 31st Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $23 Million dollars
  • Wish you could meet up with other TUG members? Well look no further as this annual event has been going on for years in Orlando! How to Attend the TUG January Get-Together!
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Removal of Silver, Gold and Platinum (Equivalent Benefits) - Wyndham Australasia

jdjw786

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Location
Australia
I, like most to get "elite" statuses such as Silver, Gold and Platinum from Wyndham, elected to purchase from them direct and not resellers. While I am an Owner with Club Wyndham USA, I also follow Wyndham Australasian which is fully owned by Wyndham Destinations. While not 100% identical, the Australasian products are similar in many respects eg Gold = "Diamond" and there have been suggestions that Wyndham might standardized where possible. Here's a extract from a respected newsletter produced from a reseller, Terry Bradford today which rings some alarm bells-

"On 13th May Wyndham announced some fairly major changes to the Privileges program effective from the 1st June 2020. The main changes were:
  1. Free Housekeeping no longer unlimited for Diamond and above
  2. Housekeeping tokens needed when using credits for Wyndham Rewards, Personal Choice, etc
  3. Changes to Fun Time
  4. Removal of Golfers Plus and Registry collection
  5. Reduction in Privileges fees to compensate for reduced benefits
These changes are basically a positive for those who either have no Privileges (better Fun Time options) or Standard or Elite Privileges (reduced fees but no loss of benefits) whilst generally negative for those on Diamond or higher Privileges. So more owners will have a positive change than a negative one but unfortunately the negative is quite big for some Diamond and Platinum owners.

Before I go into details on each of the above the most common question owners have been asking is how can Wyndham remove benefits that they promised to owners to get them to upgrade? As I have been warning about for literally years NONE of the Privileges benefits are guaranteed in any way and Wyndham can change or remove them at any time. Whilst many people have reported that salespeople never told them that benefits could be removed the Product Disclosure Statement has always been clear that the benefits could be removed and unfortunately for people who fell for the Privileges promises it is what is in the PDS that counts (unless of course you managed to get the salesperson to put something in writing). Hopefully now owners will start to see the value in buying credits on the resale market instead of spending way more to get Privileges benefits that may disappear at any time.
"

Can anyone advise how protected are Silver, Gold and Platinum members from Club Wyndham (USA) making similar or other changes to privileges under the Club Wyndham (USA) branding?

Here's a link to the full newsletter -
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
I, like most to get "elite" statuses such as Silver, Gold and Platinum from Wyndham, elected to purchase from them direct and not resellers. While I am an Owner with Club Wyndham USA, I also follow Wyndham Australasian which is fully owned by Wyndham Destinations. While not 100% identical, the Australasian products are similar in many respects eg Gold = "Diamond" and there have been suggestions that Wyndham might standardized where possible. Here's a extract from a respected newsletter produced from a reseller, Terry Bradford today which rings some alarm bells-

"On 13th May Wyndham announced some fairly major changes to the Privileges program effective from the 1st June 2020. The main changes were:
  1. Free Housekeeping no longer unlimited for Diamond and above
  2. Housekeeping tokens needed when using credits for Wyndham Rewards, Personal Choice, etc
  3. Changes to Fun Time
  4. Removal of Golfers Plus and Registry collection
  5. Reduction in Privileges fees to compensate for reduced benefits
These changes are basically a positive for those who either have no Privileges (better Fun Time options) or Standard or Elite Privileges (reduced fees but no loss of benefits) whilst generally negative for those on Diamond or higher Privileges. So more owners will have a positive change than a negative one but unfortunately the negative is quite big for some Diamond and Platinum owners.

Before I go into details on each of the above the most common question owners have been asking is how can Wyndham remove benefits that they promised to owners to get them to upgrade? As I have been warning about for literally years NONE of the Privileges benefits are guaranteed in any way and Wyndham can change or remove them at any time. Whilst many people have reported that salespeople never told them that benefits could be removed the Product Disclosure Statement has always been clear that the benefits could be removed and unfortunately for people who fell for the Privileges promises it is what is in the PDS that counts (unless of course you managed to get the salesperson to put something in writing). Hopefully now owners will start to see the value in buying credits on the resale market instead of spending way more to get Privileges benefits that may disappear at any time.
"

Can anyone advise how protected are Silver, Gold and Platinum members from Club Wyndham (USA) making similar or other changes to privileges under the Club Wyndham (USA) branding?

Here's a link to the full newsletter -

There are no guarantees ever, but any changes to the program are supposed to be for new VIP owners after the changes take effect. There was a leaked memo that said unlimited housekeeping was going away for new members but existing VIP retains them. Now, it’s always possible that it’s a fake memo, however, the Privileges brochure that is public shows we keep unlimited housekeeping. There is an asterisk next to it and that asterisk is for the disclosure that benefits are still in development. Everything is subject to change. Wyndham has a history of grandfathering people into old rules. For example, when the points levels increased last time, existing VIPs who owned less then then the then the new requirement, still kept their status. When the PIC rules changed many years ago to limit the number of PICs an owner May enroll, owners who already had PICs enrolled can, to this day, enroll as many as they want. So while it’s not impossible for them to remove benefits, history has shown that they like grandfathering people into the old rules. We won’t know for sure until they announce the changes.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
The current Privileges brochure. This is all we have at the moment. I would imagine we won’t have much more until all the resorts are open at 100% and resort sales are in full swing. I think that would be end of July at the latest unless there is a big uptick in cases that cause them to shut things down again.


 
Last edited:

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
6,062
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
VIP benefits can change anytime and they have changed in the past. The protections exist only so far as Wyndham believes they generate more sales than the program costs to operate.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
VIP benefits can change anytime and they have changed in the past. The protections exist only so far as Wyndham believes they generate more sales than the program costs to operate.

Which benefits changed?
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
6,062
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
Cendant had acquired both Fairfield and Wyndham and rebranded Fairfield to Wyndham by 2006. The GC change appears to have happened in 2008. While I suppose you could argue semantics about what company was "responsible" for which changes, from my perspective the leadership is more or less continuous through that process and I think of it as one entity.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Cendant had acquired both Fairfield and Wyndham and rebranded Fairfield to Wyndham by 2006. The GC change appears to have happened in 2008. While I suppose you could argue semantics about what company was "responsible" for which changes, from my perspective the leadership is more or less continuous through that process and I think of it as one entity.

Cendant had different leadership then Wyndham Worldwide. I have no doubt, the talk to change the GC rule was started long before it actually went into place. Not to mention that since then, whenever they made changes, people were grandfathered in. I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m saying that the odds are they will continue grandfathering people into old rules provided the system will allow for it. My theory for not grandfathering people into the GC change was due to mega renters. Obviously that change didn’t make much difference in that regard.
 

bnoble

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
12,246
Reaction score
6,062
Location
The People's Republic of Ann Arbor
Well, here's another change, and this one is very recent and impacted every VIP owner: the very intentional demise of cancel/rebook.

You can tell yourself that nothing you depend on now will change in the future, and you will probably be right. These sorts of changes are relatively rare. But, if I were considering a VIP purchase, I would want that purchase to be repaid in 3-5 years, tops. Any longer IMO leaves me open to way too much downside risk.
 

55plus

TUG Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
2,571
Reaction score
1,184
Location
USA! USA! USA!
Cancel and rebook was newer a benefit. It's something Sales Weasels used to increase sales. It was never mentioned in the directory or written in a contract.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,330
Well, here's another change, and this one is very recent and impacted every VIP owner: the very intentional demise of cancel/rebook.

You can tell yourself that nothing you depend on now will change in the future, and you will probably be right. These sorts of changes are relatively rare. But, if I were considering a VIP purchase, I would want that purchase to be repaid in 3-5 years, tops. Any longer IMO leaves me open to way too much downside risk.
That is why its considered a sunk cost. Why count on a purchase price to be repaid when you can buy resale at $0. Now some will counter that lower cost maintenance fee deeds will pay for themselves in a few years but if you don't hold ownership any longer then 6 months who cares what the MF's are? Buy and have deed transfer in sept-nov and you will have 2 years of points for less then 1/2 years maintenance fees.
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,330
Cancel and rebook was newer a benefit. It's something Sales Weasels used to increase sales. It was never mentioned in the directory or written in a contract.
It was a sales strategy many VIP owners bought into. I call it being hoodwinked. Same as the strategy of buying more points for rental to pay all maintenance fees. Its just same old Wyndham math that never adds up.
 

jdjw786

newbie
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
4
Reaction score
3
Location
Australia
The current Privileges brochure. This is all we have at the moment. I would imagine we won’t have much more until all the resorts are open at 100% and resort sales are in full swing. I think that would be end of July at the latest unless there is a big uptick in cases that cause them to shut things down again.


Thanks for the link - As a PR owner nothing last been communicated to date.
 

CCdad

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
308
Reaction score
123
Resorts Owned
Wyndham
Cendant had acquired both Fairfield and Wyndham and rebranded Fairfield to Wyndham by 2006. The GC change appears to have happened in 2008. While I suppose you could argue semantics about what company was "responsible" for which changes, from my perspective the leadership is more or less continuous through that process and I think of it as one entity.

I thought that Cendant paid to be able to use the Wyndham brand name because of all the confusion over the Fairfield name being linked to Marriott. Anyone recall when Cendant acquired the Wyndham hotel brands?
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
Cancel and rebook was newer a benefit. It's something Sales Weasels used to increase sales. It was never mentioned in the directory or written in a contract.

Well, here's another change, and this one is very recent and impacted every VIP owner: the very intentional demise of cancel/rebook.

You can tell yourself that nothing you depend on now will change in the future, and you will probably be right. These sorts of changes are relatively rare. But, if I were considering a VIP purchase, I would want that purchase to be repaid in 3-5 years, tops. Any longer IMO leaves me open to way too much downside risk.
It was never an official benefit, although the Wyndham salespeople sold it as such. They tried that with me. Even in my mid 20's, I knew that was a loophole that Wyndham would close. I knew it was never a "benefit", even before I looked at the directory to verify as much. I even told him the salesperson it was a loophole, but he continued to try and tell me it was a benefit. It took them almost a decade after that to close the loophole, but they did it. Perhaps my BS radar is better then most, or maybe I was just better at recognizing when something was a loophole, but if someone in their mid 20's could see through it I couldn't understand why someone in their mid 40's with more life experience couldn't see right through it. Even if it was a written benefit, I knew it wouldn't be forever. I knew that the discounts were a way to get people to use last-minute inventory and wasn't meant to be used for the prime season.

Since it was never an official benefit, you cannot say that they changed or took away that benefit. They just closed a loophole.
 

CCdad

TUG Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
308
Reaction score
123
Resorts Owned
Wyndham

cbyrne1174

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Messages
1,920
Reaction score
1,607
Location
Tampa, FL
Resorts Owned
Club Wyndham, Marriott, DVC
100% resale!!
It was never an official benefit, although the Wyndham salespeople sold it as such. They tried that with me. Even in my mid 20's, I knew that was a loophole that Wyndham would close. I knew it was never a "benefit", even before I looked at the directory to verify as much. I even told him the salesperson it was a loophole, but he continued to try and tell me it was a benefit. It took them almost a decade after that to close the loophole, but they did it. Perhaps my BS radar is better then most, or maybe I was just better at recognizing when something was a loophole, but if someone in their mid 20's could see through it I couldn't understand why someone in their mid 40's with more life experience couldn't see right through it. Even if it was a written benefit, I knew it wouldn't be forever. I knew that the discounts were a way to get people to use last-minute inventory and wasn't meant to be used for the prime season.

Since it was never an official benefit, you cannot say that they changed or took away that benefit. They just closed a loophole.

I don't think it has do do with age, but rather people not sticking with the current times. A person in their twenties is more likely to spend money more wisely than someone in their forties as well due to having less wealth. Older people are also less likely to know how properly utilize current resources. I remember when I was a little kid in the late 90s, people used to use books for looking up information, instead of just using the internet. People used to have to order from physical catalogs and couldn't really shop around for a lower price. The people who were adults in this era and never bothered to adapt their habits are the ones who are much more likely to get suckered into a sales lie.

I went to a presentation at Bonnet Creek before I bought my first resale deed and was able to catch the BS too. I was 27 at the time. I was told that resale owners are blocked from the majority of the club and I remember telling them I didn't care about plus partners or club pass and that's the only thing resale owners are blocked from according to what's posted on the internet. They tried to tell me that I wouldn't be able to get into Bonnet Creek, then I said if that was the case then I will put the deed back on Ebay since I can see that it has some value.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation
I don't think it has do do with age, but rather people not sticking with the current times. A person in their twenties is more likely to spend money more wisely than someone in their forties as well due to having less wealth. Older people are also less likely to know how properly utilize current resources. I remember when I was a little kid in the late 90s, people used to use books for looking up information, instead of just using the internet. People used to have to order from physical catalogs and couldn't really shop around for a lower price. The people who were adults in this era and never bothered to adapt their habits are the ones who are much more likely to get suckered into a sales lie.

I went to a presentation at Bonnet Creek before I bought my first resale deed and was able to catch the BS too. I was 27 at the time. I was told that resale owners are blocked from the majority of the club and I remember telling them I didn't care about plus partners or club pass and that's the only thing resale owners are blocked from according to what's posted on the internet. They tried to tell me that I wouldn't be able to get into Bonnet Creek, then I said if that was the case then I will put the deed back on Ebay since I can see that it has some value.

You're probably right about the differences between generations. I would just think by the age of 40 something, you're BS radar would be more finely tuned than a 20 something. Don't you get more cynical with age? If may also have something to do with that generation used to doing business with a handshake instead of a 100-page contract. There was more trust, but even back then, they had shady salesmen.
 

Richelle

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2015
Messages
2,702
Reaction score
2,090
Location
Location, Location.
Resorts Owned
Wyndham National Harbor
Wyndham Canterbury
Wyndham Atlanta
Bay Club of Sandestin
Williamsburg Plantation

TheHolleys87

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
2,419
Reaction score
1,853
Location
Texas
Resorts Owned
DVC Boardwalk Villas, Kona Coast II
Don’t tell me you think those were the ONLY shady sales people back then.
Of course not, lol! They were simply the classic example, back before TS were created and TS salesmen could muscle in on that reputation!
 

dgalati

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2015
Messages
3,393
Reaction score
1,330
Of course not, lol! They were simply the classic example, back before TS were created and TS salesmen could muscle in on that reputation!
TS salesmen more then muscled in on the reputaion of being slimy they took it to a whole new level.
 
Top