If I'm Bonvoy titanium, do I get 5-star elite (3-star now)?I was told that current 5 Star Elite will be upgraded to Marriott Titanium.
No, it is the other way around. Certain levels of 5 Star Elite with Vistana get Platinum Bonvoy status, all other owners get gold (developer or requalified purchases only). Your Bonvoy status gets you nothing in Vistana.If I'm Bonvoy titanium, do I get 5-star elite (3-star now)?
No, it is the other way around. Certain levels of 5 Star Elite with Vistana get Platinum Bonvoy status, all other owners get gold (developer or requalified purchases only). Your Bonvoy status gets you nothing in Vistana.
When it was Starwood, a developer purchase or maybe it was 3*, got you Starwood Gold, then it became Bonvoy Gold. So nothing new yet, right?
The Marriott Vacation Club elite program is much more generous when it comes to Bonvoy status, and it's much easier to get Bonvoy Platinum and even Titanium at the top couple of levels. So this is a benefit that's likely to improve for Vistana owners as they bring the two programs closer together.When it was Starwood and as is currently, any developer purchase gets the owner Gold status in the hotel loyalty program. To receive 3-Star Elite requires owning a minimum of the equivalent of 159,000 StarOptions with a minimum of two VOIs. Only 5-Star Elite (649,000 StarOption minimum) gets an owner Platinum status in the hotel loyalty program.
What I fear is these flex trusts get devalued. What is currently a week of points today is less than a week of points in any new program, ie: 148,100 options that is a week today is less than a week at the same resort at the exact time in anything new. I agree though a deed for a week is a deed for a week and that can't be taken away. It's a good position to own a deed. Stay tuned.
Just like with the deeded weeks, legally I think they would have to preserve the value of home options in Flex. If you have 148,100 Westin Flex HomeOptions you own the right to a weeks worth of 2br use at any of the 8 Westin properties in high season. They cannot legally devalue and say now you need to buy more to get a week.
For both deeded and Flex, I believe they can legally change around the value of StarOptions or any other exchange currency any way they want. In my last update (April at WKORV) they suggested the system would likely look more like the MVC system where the point values vary much more by property than with Vistana. This was in attempt to sell Maui oceanfront as that would likely be substantially more valuable in the new system than with the current StarOption values. This suggests there would not be a fixed (say 32:1) conversion ratio. While I think this was just speculation from the sales rep, look at how SPG became much more like Marriott in the merger and not the other way around. And in this speculation the existing StarOptions would go away as they thought Marriott would be unlikely to maintain two exchange currencies. While I’m not a lawyer, in my reading of the disclosures this looks like something they could legally do as long as they maintain your deeded week or HomeOptions.
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Aren't VSN and StarOptions in the deed for mandatory resorts? I’m not sure they can get rid of it. I need to go back and examine my documents.
If they do something that disadvantages owners, the whole thing will get tied up in lawsuits, and they know if. So I’ve got to imagine they will tread carefully.
I have three types of ownerships: a mandatory (WKORV), voluntary (SMV), and Westin Flex as a mixture of requalified resale and developer purchases, so all are in VSN. I went back and took a look at the various disclosures for each of these. For both the WKORV and SMV, the documentation is very clear that they can change the value in the network to reflect relative demand. For the Flex, it is a little less obvious, but it appears they could change the network value (currently StarOptions) but would have to leave the HomeOptions as sold. The WKORV disclosures have multiple pages describing the "club", "network", "point assignment" and the ability to adjust network point assignments every year as long as the total points assigned reflect the total units available in the network. It's a long but well written description.
I agree that even if they could do this from the disclosures, they would open themselves up to being sued over misrepresentation from the sales reps even if legally covered in the disclosures. So I think it is more likely that they will use a separate exchange between Vistana and MVC (which they could vary based upon deposited ownership), but leave StarOptions as the internal Vistana exchange. But from everything I read, while they have to leave alone what you bought in terms of deeded weeks or HomeOptions, they could substantially change the network value assignments and not violate the disclosures as long as the total network points is equal to the units available in the network.
Thank you for saving me the trouble of having to read my WKORV disclosures (I did read them when I bought, but that was two decades ago!)I have three types of ownerships: a mandatory (WKORV), voluntary (SMV), and Westin Flex as a mixture of requalified resale and developer purchases, so all are in VSN. I went back and took a look at the various disclosures for each of these. For both the WKORV and SMV, the documentation is very clear that they can change the value in the network to reflect relative demand. For the Flex, it is a little less obvious, but it appears they could change the network value (currently StarOptions) but would have to leave the HomeOptions as sold. The WKORV disclosures have multiple pages describing the "club", "network", "point assignment" and the ability to adjust network point assignments every year as long as the total points assigned reflect the total units available in the network. It's a long but well written description.
I agree that even if they could do this from the disclosures, they would open themselves up to being sued over misrepresentation from the sales reps even if legally covered in the disclosures. So I think it is more likely that they will use a separate exchange between Vistana and MVC (which they could vary based upon deposited ownership), but leave StarOptions as the internal Vistana exchange. But from everything I read, while they have to leave alone what you bought in terms of deeded weeks or HomeOptions, they could substantially change the network value assignments and not violate the disclosures as long as the total network points is equal to the units available in the network.
Hmm. That would definitely turn one of the main sales rep arguments into misrepresentation (when I bought at WDW, the sell was definitely "buy here because our MFs are lower for the same amount of SOs" which, at the time, was a strong argument that convinced me to buy there. I can imagine some pretty serious gnashing of teeth by those who are more litigious than I.
By raising the value of some resorts (ie 81,000 for 1 week changing to 95,700 for 1 week) it has the effect of devaluing other ownerships but without the obvious appearance of those ownerships being devalued. Those who own weeks that would now be worth more SOs actually benefit from the moves.I’ve only owned WSJ for a short time, but understand that the SOs assigned to specific weeks/unit types were raised sometime after 2010. For example, a 1 BR VGV Platinum Plus used to be 81,000, but is now 95,700. Historically, the speculation that SO values can be changed has born out. I haven’t heard of any that went down, though, which would be a tougher choice for them to make as it would be more likely to really upset owners of that resort.
By raising the value of some resorts (ie 81,000 for 1 week changing to 95,700 for 1 week) it has the effect of devaluing other ownerships but without the obvious appearance of those ownerships being devalued. Those who own weeks that would now be worth more SOs actually benefit from the moves.
I just heard the same thing at Cancun more or less. I inherited a deed for a fixed week (52 in St John no less, lucky me). They want to "consolidate" my ownership to MVC for $15-$24k in exchange for about 150-250k Staroptions. (Options can convert to Bonvoy and Interval, of course) I'm also skeptical that I'll only have the 23 Vistana properties to choose from after the merger, but I guess that could increase the pressure to roll over. I'm taking a wait and see approach while I enjoy my holiday time on the beach.I just went to a MVC presentation, and for the small sum of $45,000, I could buy into the Marriott club and be guaranteed entrance "because everyone in Vistana is going to have to do this to have access to Marriott resorts". Don't think it's going to happen this way, but I'm sure some people have been sucked in.