RCI increases for Points Transactions!!!

[Cayuga]

I never got the email from RCI announcing the new points costs for transactions. Maybe they didn't want all of the victims to get the word at the same time. So when I read a TUG thread that mentioned such changes, I called a vacation guide myself. Apparently, it will now cost $99 instead of $79 for a 5-7 day reservation. I was told by the same VG that this is the first increase since the points program was introduced a few years ago.
Okay..I can generally live with that, however, the other increases are outrageous. For a 1-2 night stay, the fee will now go to $49.00 instead of $19.00 per night!
And if that wasn't enough, the increase that particularly bothers me is the $26.00 fee to do a Points for Deposit (PFD)!!! It used to be free! Tuggers wondered for years how long RCI would keep this benefit. Well now, here is the answer:some corporate wizard has turned it into a significant new income stream. I think we can consider it permanent from here on!
I was just getting to appreciate the Points program and its possibilities. But I don't know how long the economics of this whole timeshare game will continue to make sense. Without any real competition, this modern day "robber baron" (RCI) can,at will, pick us clean with increases like this in the future.

 

[BocaBum99]

I knew it would happen eventually....

But, I thought they would charge $49 for PFD instead of $26.

I think the price of Christmas Mountain Village UDIs just took a huge hit.

Also, I think there was cheering coming out of North Carolina today. This will help to reduce the crossover trades that our friend Carolinian has been loathing for years.

RCI really is milking the exchange cow. Keep raising prices until nobody exchanges anymore. That leaves them more inventory for their rental business.

All this will do is speed the process of resort group formation that completely bypasses exchange companies.

 

[timeos2]

Blame Boca for the PFD fee

He brought it up a few months back (grin).

The upsides are that $26 isn't going to hurt anyone and that institutionalizes PFD as an ongoing feature. I was worried they might drop it in the future and for me it is the most compelling reason to be in RCI Points. Once it is a revenue generator it is unlikely to go away. I just hope they don't get crazy with the future pricing.

 

[BocaBum99]

John,

I told you I submitted a patent for the PFD deposit fee. So, RCI will be owing me 2% of all fees collected. They just don't know it yet.

 

[CaliDave]

The upsides are that $26 isn't going to hurt anyone

$26.00, that just doubled the cost of Bruce's vacations

Maybe they've had a slowdown or stabilization in points conversions and figured it time to start charging fees that they had always planned on charging. It was like the developer subsidy.
It's much easier to get people to convert when you can dangle low exchange fees in front of them.

I think its just part of the cycle.
2006 they will raise weeks membership fees
2007 raise points membership fees
2008 raise weeks exchange fees
2009 raise points exchanges

So as long as RCI can keep the same number of exchanges, they will keep the profit growth rate going every year.

 

[RonaldCol]

Ouch!

I own several UDI Cottages myself so I have to factor that into my cost of RCI points. A red week deposited into RCI points creates 38,000 RCI points. Aside from the standard cleanng charge of $48 for the unit, the $26 cost for now depositing a week implemented by RCI averages out to an additional $0.0006842 cents. My total cost for a deposited week is $48 plus $26, or $74 for 38,000 points. That comes out to be $0.001948 cents per RCI point credited.

Yes, ouch, my cost per point has gone up!

Unfortunately, it has also gone up for everybody else.

 

[brucecz]

Boca, you must have posted this before you phoned me.

If it was $100 for a deposit then I might scream a bit and then like you do more deposits with the other exchange companies.

As I just told you over the phone we do about 30 to 40 mostly white week CMV UDI RCI Point deposits a year, and about 20 or more CMV UDI rentals a year. Our average rental price per week averages about $40 more per week than 2 years ago so increased our rental profit by least $800 last year.

So our cost went up $750 to $1,000 a year if we keep doing the same amount of deposits for RCI Points.

So now using 3 white weeks to make 2 Bright RCI Point red weeks that increase will raise our out of pocket costs to about $225. per RCI Points bright red week exchange if not counting any of our CMV UDI rental profits and if we do not do any 90 day exchanges, which up to this point we have not bothered to do.

This increase would raise our cost to fly RT to Hawaii using 3-4 white weeks per ticket from about $199 -$250 to $277-$350 per ticket.

Am I happy about this raise, certainly not. Do I exspect more increases down the road? Yes I do untill they come close for most owners in total cost for a regular RCI Weeks exchange.

That increase may stop the more experianced Tuggers from getting into the RCI Points program and the other Tug RCI Points owners to use other exchange companies instead of RCI Points.

But like I told you over the phone the future new RCI Points buyers will not know when they buy that this cost was not always there so they will not be upset about it like the average TUG RCI Points owner would.

We Tuggers are a very minute percentage of the Timeshare owners.

Boca IMHO this is one of the times I think you may be wrong about how it will affect their rental bussines, as I think it will for a while cut down on the amount of Point deposits.

Bruce

PS After doing about 15 minutes of thinking I have come up with a way of keeping our Total cost per RCI Point exchange almost the same and reducing our costs increased timeshare costs by banking white weeks 90 days out instead of over 45 days out like we mostly do now. That will give us one thrid more points for each $48-$50 CMV UDI week which means that two bright weeks RCI Point exchanges will only cost about $20 more total for both red week RCI Point exchanges.

I will give you a call asap after posting this PS

But, I thought they would charge $49 for PFD instead of $26.

I think the price of Christmas Mountain Village UDIs just took a huge hit.

Also, I think there was cheering coming out of North Carolina today. This will help to reduce the crossover trades that our friend Carolinian has been loathing for years.

RCI really is milking the exchange cow. Keep raising prices until nobody exchanges anymore. That leaves them more inventory for their rental business.

All this will do is speed the process of resort group formation that completely bypasses exchange companies.

 

[LynnW]

The increases are not showing on their website yet. I also can accept the $99 but $49 per night is outrageous! Have never used the points for deposit as we always use an alternate exchange company or go to our home resort. What is the increase for exchanging into your home resort within the priority period?

Lynn

 

[bogey21]

...the increase that particularly bothers me is the $26.00 fee to do a Points for Deposit (PFD)!!! It used to be free! Tuggers wondered for years how long RCI would keep this benefit. Well now, here is the answer:some corporate wizard has turned it into a significant new income stream. I think we can consider it permanent from here on!

From my standpoint the good news (Program Continuation) outweighs the bad news (the $26 Fee). PFD coupled with a low cost entry vehicle into RCI Points is what makes my Points Account work.

GEORGE

 

[rickandcindy23]

It's my fault that points transactions went up because I just joined!

You wash your car, it rains. More of us join points, the price goes up.

I thought we were going to save a lot of money with points exchanges at $79.00, instead of the $149. Admittedly, the points exchanges are still less, but for how long? We have been RCI members for 20 years and have seen drastic increases in the last three years, from $119 to $149 for exchanges. They used to charge that $119 for booking online, but they dropped that discount about two years ago.

I just hope the developers have a fit over the increases. Part of the sales pitch at VV at Pkwy was the comparison between weeks exchange fees vs. points. That was one of the pluses that sold us on points. We thought about it after the presentation and decided to try Australia points.

 

[Dani]

You wash your car, it rains. More of us join points, the price goes up.

Ain 't that the truth!!! In a way...as some have said, it's a good thing that they have committed to the PFD program. On the other hand, $49 per night for an exchange fee That sounds like it MUST be wrong.

 

[Cayuga]

Ain 't that the truth!!! In a way...as some have said, it's a good thing that they have committed to the PFD program. On the other hand, $49 per night for an exchange fee That sounds like it MUST be wrong.

Dani;

More accurately, the fee is $49.00 for 1 or 2 nights, then each additional night is $19.00 up to a total of 4 nights. From day 5 on, the $99.00 then kicks in. Or look at it this way; $49 for one night; $25.00 average per day for 2 nights; about $23.00 per day for 3 nights; about $22.00 per day for 4 nights;and about $14-$20 per day for 5-7 nights.
Obviously, the longer stays are more economic. But one of benefits used to promote the points program was the flexibility of short stays(1-4 days). While not budget breaking, these kinds of increases might actually discourage short stay considerations, especially if they continue to rise dramatically.

 

[BocaBum99]

Dani;

More accurately, the fee is $49.00 for 1 or 2 nights, then each additional night is $19.00 up to a total of 4 nights. From day 5 on, the $99.00 then kicks in. Or look at it this way; $49 for one night; $25.00 average per day for 2 nights; about $23.00 per day for 3 nights; about $22.00 per day for 4 nights;and about $14-$20 per day for 5-7 nights.
Obviously, the longer stays are more economic. But one of benefits used to promote the points program was the flexibility of short stays(1-4 days). While not budget breaking, these kinds of increases might actually discourage short stay considerations, especially if they continue to rise dramatically.

Couple the $49 exchange fee with the extra housekeeping fees charged by resorts and short stays are no longer economical.

And, the $26 PFD fee significantly hurts the economics of PFD.

This is very good for the mini-systems. I'll be using them far more now than RCI points.

 

[bogey21]

Dani;

More accurately, the fee is $49.00 for 1 or 2 nights...

Another problem with the short stays is the Housekeeping Fees charged by some resorts. I was recently nailed with a $40 Housekeeping Fee at Vacation Village at Bonaventure for a 1 night stay. Although this is the first time this has happened to me, it is disconcerting.

GEORGE

 

[Jimster]

rci

The thing that makes this all the more loathsome is that there is never a word about WHY costs must increase. I feel very sorry for RCI (Cendent )because I bet their profit levels are probably a little lower than the oil companies. Maybe this change will boost them over the top. BTW there is a similar analogy to this whole mess. It's called killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Personally, I plan to increase my involvement with other TS exchange companies that actually try to facilitate exchanges.

 

[BocaBum99]

Personally, I plan to increase my involvement with other TS exchange companies that actually try to facilitate exchanges.

Very well put.

 

[brucecz]

I called RCI Points last night and the VC said the the $26 deposit charge would start as of January 1, 2006.

Seeing we do mostly full week exchanges the increased costs of the RCI partial week has very litle effect on our using RCI Points exchanges while raiding the RCI weeks side.

Out of about 20 RCI Point exchanges only one was at a RCI Points resort for 4 day week end costing about $40 for the 19,000 RCI Points used plus the RCI Points exchane fee that maybe was about $68 (?) at the new RCI Points resort in Wisconsin Dells

I guess we also will take a closer into other exchange companies and see what they offer. We all should be able check them out on http://www.timeshareforums.com because those other exchange companies are represented by their own representives on that site.

One advantage for us is that our CMV UDI;s are also afillated wilth II and RCI weeks.

I will like another Tugger will be also thinking about putting some white but mostly lower earning RCI Point Blue weeks into II for their 60 day deals and into RCI's 45 day deals.

Will check with other exchange companies to see what our red, white and blue weeks might bring.

Bruce

 

[Cayuga]

I called RCI Points last night and the VC said the the $26 deposit charge would start as of January 1, 2006.

Seeing we do mostly full week exchanges the increased costs of the RCI partial week has very litle effect on our using RCI Points exchanges while raiding the RCI weeks side.

Out of about 20 RCI Point exchanges only one was at a RCI Points resort for 4 day week end costing about $40 for the 19,000 RCI Points used plus the RCI Points exchane fee that maybe was about $68 (?) at the new RCI Points resort in Wisconsin Dells

I guess we also will take a closer into other exchange companies and see what they offer. We all should be able check them out on http://www.timeshareforums.com because those other exchange companies are represented by their own representives on that site.

One advantage for us is that our CMV UDI;s are also afillated wilth II and RCI weeks.

I will like another Tugger will be also thinking about putting some white but mostly lower earning RCI Point Blue weeks into II for their 60 day deals and into RCI's 45 day deals.

Will check with other exchange companies to see what our red, white and blue weeks might bring.

Bruce

****************************************************
Bruce;

Do you think "Points" is suffering from the "South Africa phenomenon"? Although it was/could never be proven conclusively, did TUG comments over the years help to diminish the relative trading power of those SA units?

Could we be revealing too much about how we manage the system to our advantage? Many people, and some who don't have our best
interest in mind, follow this forum. While TUG may represent numerically a small percentage of the timeshare population, it is perhaps the most astute ,active, and influential constituency.

From a corporate point of view, if I wanted to know what areas to plug,control,or change, this forum would be very helpful in recognizing those opportunities.
Just some thoughts! But maybe I'm too much of a conspiracy theorist!

 

[brucecz]

December 1, 2005, 05:09 PM #4
BocaBum99
TUG Member


BBS Reg. Date: Jun 7, 05
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Posts: 902 John,

I told you I submitted a patent for the PFD deposit fee. So, RCI will be owing me 2% of all fees collected. They just don't know it yet.

*********************************************************

Cayuga, as you can plainly see by Bocs's post above that it is my friend Boca's fault. It is 100% his fault. We just better hope that he does not go to work for Cendant-RCI as a consultant who gets paid on the percent of profit he helps generate.


But seriously without any proof I am not sure. Maybe bootleg has an answer to your question. But I would think RCI monitors this site for their benifit.

But it seems Cendant-RCI based on its RCI Weeks track record is not shy on making large price increases to us the RCI members, to increase their profits for their stock holders.

But IMHO I think RCI gave a moderately low cost price to RCI Points to get a program rolling, but like most companies once they feel they have you hooked and committed then they raise their prices to increase profits.

Cendant certainly has raised prices on the RCI weeks side far more than the inflasion(?) rate since they bought RCI.

I wonder how they desided that $26 was what they going to charge?

Bruce

 

[CaliDave]

RCI should be lowering costs.
With all the internet transactions, it tremendously lowers the cost.
Or they should have Internet exchanges at $99 and phone exchanges at $149
Free guest certs.. which surely don't take someone $49 worth of labor, especially when you get the GC online

The IT team can't be making much.. with as bad as the webite is, they've got to be making minimum wage .

 

[Sandy]

For years I urged and questioned RCI about why they did not lower costs (HA!!!) since the more people who use their system, the less their costs are.

I have been an RCI member since 1980, and watched our costs rise over the years. I recall when it only cost $49 to exchange!!!

With the sophistication of a computer network, the costs for a corporation SHOULD go down progressively the more people use it. As we know, that is not the way it works for corporate America.

For each of us. the key is learning how to best use the system whatever it is. Or to avoid using it if that works to our best advantage.

I don't know what the best solution is. When I learned about the South African units here on TUG, I studied it and then bought some, with the intended goal of reducing my overall TS costs.

When I learned about the points program using Australia as the base, also here on TUG, I also bought to be able to combine the weeks and points trading capabilities. So far, so good.

I am committed to exchanging, but I am also very thankful for everything I have learned here on TUG that has enhanced my timesharing experience.

I know so many timesharing owners who do not have a clue to the conversations we have here on TUG, and the sad fact it that they don't even want to know. As a result, they overpay for the timeshare when they buy retail, they rarely use the vacations that they have, they never find out how to best trade, and they make so many more unnecessary mistakes by avoiding information. Unfortunately, these are some family members and friends.

So, I thank TUG because I am secure that we will find out how to stay ahead of whatever trends may come, including the RCI whims and profit goals.

This is just MHO.

 

[Cayuga]

For years I urged and questioned RCI about why they did not lower costs (HA!!!) since the more people who use their system, the less their costs are.

Sandy,

You are absolutely right! Also, computerization and the internet should have reduced their costs substantially over the years! Also, how many times have we called RCI and got a VC who sounds like the're in some foreign country! A lot of the operations aren't even located in the U.S..They have been outsourced to areas like South Asia, Latin America.etc! You can bet they are not being paid close to what a domestic worker would get!

This has become a true cash machine for Cendant, and it's being milked for all that its worth.We can debate the economic impact of a transaction increase here or there. However, it is the overall principle of an industry largely dominated by one entity that is troublesome to me.

Fiscally, Cendant's corporate track record over the years is as predatory and monopolizing as any that I've seen historically. Is this why they are "restructuring" operations into two or three major service groups? It sounds like also a move to camouflage the full scope of their increasing domination of the travel/vacation business in the U.S.

Perhaps timeshare users at this point need to form a political action group of some type to protect themselves as a class. As long as we continue to think we are just individuals engaged in largely superfluous and unimportant extracurricular activities, we'll never be motivated to collectively protect our economic rights. This industry desparately needs some real oversight and regulation, up and down the entire ladder, and not just RCI/Cendant.

 

[BocaBum99]

Sandy,

You are absolutely right! Also, computerization and the internet should have reduced their costs substantially over the years! Also, how many times have we called RCI and got a VC who sounds like the're in some foreign country! A lot of the operations aren't even located in the U.S..They have been outsourced to areas like South Asia, Latin America.etc! You can bet they are not being paid close to what a domestic worker would get!

This has become a true cash machine for Cendant, and it's being milked for all that its worth.We can debate the economic impact of a transaction increase here or there. However, it is the overall principle of an industry largely dominated by one entity that is troublesome to me.

Fiscally, Cendant's corporate track record over the years is as predatory and monopolizing as any that I've seen historically. Is this why they are "restructuring" operations into two or three major service groups? It sounds like also a move to camouflage the full scope of their increasing domination of the travel/vacation business in the U.S.

Perhaps timeshare users at this point need to form a political action group of some type to protect themselves as a class. As long as we continue to think we are just individuals engaged in largely superfluous and unimportant extracurricular activities, we'll never be motivated to collectively protect our economic rights. This industry desparately needs some real oversight and regulation, up and down the entire ladder, and not just RCI/Cendant.

I guess you haven't heard that Cendant is breaking up into 4 different companies. They are not a monopoly and they have real competition. By becoming a big conglomerate of travel and real estate, they actually reduced the value of the company, so they are breaking it up.

Regarding profit maximization, that's what ALL companies try to do. Some companies are better than others at the PR campaign to make you believe they care a whole lot about you. Don't get me wrong, they do care about customers. They just care about profits (and their own bonuses) more.

These ideas you have for PACs and more oversight and/or regulation are not the answer. Believe it or not, the real answer is much easier than that. All YOU (or any of us for that matter) need to do is pick the exchange companies that best meets your needs. The rest will take care of itself. That's the beauty of a competitive, free market. The invisible hand of capitalism will keep the profit maximizers in check better than any government agency can.

 

[Walt]

We all want that Dream

I guess you haven't heard that Cendant is breaking up into 4 different companies. They are not a monopoly and they have real competition. By becoming a big conglomerate of travel and real estate, they actually reduced the value of the company, so they are breaking it up.

Regarding profit maximization, that's what ALL companies try to do. Some companies are better than others at the PR campaign to make you believe they care a whole lot about you. Don't get me wrong, they do care about customers. They just care about profits (and their own bonuses) more.

These ideas you have for PACs and more oversight and/or regulation are not the answer. Believe it or not, the real answer is much easier than that. All YOU (or any of us for that matter) need to do is pick the exchange companies that best meets your needs. The rest will take care of itself. That's the beauty of a competitive, free market. The invisible hand of capitalism will keep the profit maximizers in check better than any government agency can.

Don’t you think the timeshare industry has done such a good job of Smoke and Mirrors (an illusion to convince and manipulate) that they can tells us anything and we believe them because we want to believe them.

We are all looking for that Dream Vacation (an illusion) that we want to be hoodwinked into buying that dream.

Timesharing is become more about show than substance.


Walt

 

[Fern Modena]

I just tried to do a PFD transfer of a couple of SA weeks. I was told that since they are 2006 weeks, I can't do it until 2006. I never had that problem before. So now it will cost to transfer them