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Quintess/Duo

TCREA

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Any word on Quintess in general and Duo in particular? Members -- are you happy with their Club? Duo members...have you started using the properties? Why did you join?

Thanks.
 

TCREA

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Bump.

No one has any information about Quintess?? On this entire Board?
 

Kagehitokiri2

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SciFrog is a member.

EOD resigned over holiday changes.

amangani, la samanna, canouan are very unique offerings amongst DCs.
 

SciFrog

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Homes are amazing (location, size, furniture, housekeeping)
Service is top notch
Hosts are great in general
Company looks financially solid because of their main investor still putting money in the club
Booking rules and system is better than ER (ie not booking beyond 1.5 years)
The handling of the 2008 crisis was done well despite the big changes that were necessary

Resignation list is bigger than one would like, although new members have a reset list, so might not be an issue
Availability is tight, especially for prime properties and holidays.

All that said, I might try to resign anyway. My children are getting older and vacation is becoming an issue, seeing we don't have a holiday plan. Also we don't want to compromise on destination anymore (ie going to a specific place).

Quintess would be ideal with a home-member ratio under 5, something no club offers, even at a higher price point.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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do you know if EOD and others with similar travel habits would also be interested in a higher end option?
 

Buon Viaggio

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The 2 year reservation policy at ER is actually a big plus. There's been some discussion lately at ER to change it but members overwhelmingly prefer having the 2 year window. The cancellation system works so well that it isn't really a problem booking so far out and it actually reduces competition. It is a temporary issue for brand new members but even then most of them end up utilizing other members' cancellations.
 

SciFrog

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Q also has a system like that, but it doesn't seem as automated. The two year reservation system was deal breaker for me, and already was annoyed when Q went from 1 to 1.5, but everyone is different. My friend that is an ER member was also annoyed by the two year scheme, you might not even know the vacation of your kids that far ahead...

One word on pricing, if you compare to going to a hotel and get a 2-3 bedroom place, the savings are huge. 8 days in Vail or in St Martin pays for my 30 Q nights. And this is at today's rates, imagine what it will be in a few years. Of course renting can be cheaper, but it is not comparable, we don't rent homes.
 
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Kagehitokiri2

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Q >
on March 1, 2011, there will be an annual dues increase of 5.5% per Base Plan night for all new memberships.

but not for existing members?

i really dont get why this is so muddled.

(current dues divided by nights) and (new dues divided by nights) and (nights divided by reservations)

10 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 5
20 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 5
30 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 4.3
40 - 1134.38 / 1196.77 / 5
50 - 1120.00 / 1181.60 / 5
60 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 4.3
 
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SciFrog

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Duo is adding two properties at the Ritz Vail. That is a score IMHO, as even if the RC location is not that great, thus not suitable for Quintess, it works for Duo.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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duo

I like the RC Vail addition although there is a $100/night up charge. Great location and option though. As to the rate increase isn't this what UE and other clubs often used to get people off their sofa and join? Too bad the rate increases didn't always happen or stick. I guess we will find out next month. I also noticed that demeure is providing more attractive offers....I bet there is more supply than demand. Maybe they will attract more of us as the market continues to evolve. I hope so.
 
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EOD

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do you know if EOD and others with similar travel habits would also be interested in a higher end option?

The answer is yes and no for me. I think quality of homes and service for much of the Q portfolio is fine. Lots of homes in great resorts: amangani, canouan, la samanna. Then places like Tuscany, big island are standalone spectacular. Access to fairmont in big island is ok, but not wow. Cabo less exciting but good for family trip. The real issue for me is location. The dc concept is great, but I still want to be traveling to places other than north America and Europe. That's the hole in the model for me. Q adding some experiences in Africa which look nice but I am much more likely to do that outside Q. For me, if I were on west coast I might look to one of the Asia offerings to fill in but have done zero research on it.
 

SciFrog

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Besides adding St barts, which is very expensive, Q homes are already very high end, in both location and quality. What I would like is a lower member/home ratio, under 5/1 maybe.

EOD, they need to stick with north america/europe, hard to add a very exotic destination unless through exchange programs which Q tries to do.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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SciFrog, why do they need to stick to north america/europe?
 
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SciFrog

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Shorter/easier travel, less hassle while in the country, and better safety.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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so even though thats not your historical travel pattern, your only real issue is 5:1 etc ratio with 1/few plan types?
 

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I don't think you can make a club that has the diversity of travel locations to satisfy everyone. For example, here are some places I'd like to visit in the next few years:

South Africa
Argentina and Chile (patagonia)
Palau
Maldives (again)


South Africa we will do when boys are older. Argentina/chile next jan/feb. Palau, maybe on my own. Maldives whenever.

So you take your average DC member: 1. they have limited interest in international travel (outside of Europe) 2. They travel in packs (more than one family usually in the home) 3. They don't have a big travel budget (lot of cancellations at Q for Canouan home as people can't stomach airfare.)

The next level up would almost require a low home ratio because we would all demand peak availability and not every location would be cheaply, easily accessible so not everyone goes everywhere.

So, the real question is not if the next step up should exist, but what would it be. I don't think more luxurious is the bogey at all--just location. The ideal would be 2-3 regional clubs with true global exchange among them. A Pac Rim club that can exchange with Q for example would go a long way. Then you could have Kyoto, HK, Bali, Thailand, Maldives, India, Vietnam, etc. Q came close with oyster circle and then the two resorts in bali and thailand. I don't sense demand for Asia was all that high though.

Final alternative is to make one global club with china , japan , singapore members. That's seems like a lot of work though.
 

Kagehitokiri2

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EOD, i agree re locations. i think there is a market for it, at least if residences possible at aman, FS, etc.

i also agree with SciFrog re ratios. i think the ideal situation would be to have a single membership type. not sure how i feel about exchanges.

btw if youre doing atacama too, check out awasi - private excursions.
 
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locations

Q has some interesting locations in Asia as mentioned and also has some options for kenya or south africa trips which seems to be competitive with AK and ER. I think some of these travel options maybe a more economical way to extend the reach of a club, and utilize members travel commitment, beyond the club homes. Personally I don't think it makes a lot of economic sense to purchase homes a great distance from members geographic concentration in the states as they would have low occupancy and therefore be money losers. If there was a rental option similar to the travel program it could work but it must be tough to balance a club's preference to utilize members dues to fund their fixed investment in homes vs. paying third parties for travel programs or usage of rental locations---unless that is the cost of acquiring members in a competitive environment--but things have to be economically sustainable or we will wind up as we did when some of us were members of UE. I bet people are going into the situations with more open eyes as to the benefits and risks--but if you value the experience there is a price that fits what a member receives relative to the risk==Michael Miliken taught us this didn't he when he figured out how to price high yield debt and that created an industry in itself? I hope a solution for members and the clubs work out.
 
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http://www.destinationclubnews.com/News_Why_Did_DUO_Not_Introduce_A_Dues_Only_Membership.php

First, I agree with the overall statement as to why DUO did not introduce a dues only membership -

"First and foremost, we wanted to develop something that was sustainable," he said. "We didn't feel that with all the factors that it would make sense for us to offer a dues only membership option. We are also cognizant that anything we introduced would need to be an attractive option. If we did a dues only membership, it would need to be sustainable and would require a much, much higher annual dues rate, which we believed wouldn't be attractive to Ultimate Escapes members....

What we want is to secure attractive real estate that can be put to use for years. "

However, what I don't understand is how only 15K per membership is supposed to make a difference on the sustainability front. So with 7 members, you've brought in $105K (that's before sales costs even). At the touted $2M, you've brought in around 5% of the cost, and assuming any kind of financing or opportunity cost, you've only cut the annual dues cost for a member by about $1,000 if the interest rate is around 6% or 7%.

What am I missing? I understand why you would need to bring in several hundred thousand dollars per member in order to buy real estate or why you'd have higher dues to cover the debt, but what's the point of bringing in 15K. How does that make any significant difference from a sustainability front?
 
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agree but it probably helps psychologically getting alignment behind longer term memberships while also providing some limited funding for leases or interest. The key for the initial financing has to be the investor and the first members joining just provide some cash flow to cover operating costs (hopefully) and building momentum to build out a club--we all have seen the clubs are not self-sustaining like most businesses when they are started but hopefully for the investors and members grow into more balanced models in the future. From someone considering joining Duo's perspective, I recognize there more risk to the model at this stage of the game, but the size of the deposit reduces the damage of that risk significantly (at least from what we experienced at UE). AK is obviously much more conservative but it also has issues with filling is membership and releasing the homes from Dev Co and growing its number of locations and at the same time requires a six figure buy in. I have not found a perfect model. The least financially risky and least expensive is renting properties at present; however, its also the most frustrating and time consuming. Like everything in life there are advantages and disadvantages to balance. Should I dive in a second time? I think there is enough water in the pool to cushion the fall. I will retain my user name though.
 
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I guess I'm just not a big fan of the non-equity clubs. Either I want to put up no deposit and just use a portfolio of homes that are essentially leased, probably paying somewhat more in dues. Or I want to put up money to own a fractional interest in the real estate, which presumably means I would pay lower dues. The notion of paying a deposit to use someone else's portfolio of homes seems ridiculous to me, when all I end up with is the promise that I will have homes at my disposal. At least with DUO, the 15K is low enough to where it's easier to justify the risk.

Did anyone ever get the membership documents? Are you obligated to pay a certain amount of dues each year? If you resign, do you still have to pay dues until they can bring in 3 new members at the appropriate buy ins to redeem out a UE member?
 

Kagehitokiri2

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(current dues divided by nights) and (new dues divided by nights) and (nights divided by reservations)

10 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 5
20 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 5
30 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 4.3
40 - 1134.38 / 1196.77 / 5
50 - 1120.00 / 1181.60 / 5
60 - 1177.50 / 1242.26 / 4.3

now even, but huge increase

14 $1425
21 $1425
28 $1425
+7 $1425
$1250 space available...

duo is not even >

14 ?
21 $816.67
28 $812.50
+7 $800
$775 space available...
 
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now even, but huge increase

14 $1425
21 $1425
28 $1425
+7 $1425
$1250 space available...

duo is not even >

14 ?
21 $816.67
28 $812.50
+7 $800
$775 space available...

Wow. That's a huge increase in per night cost. Seems like it would be hard to compete at those rates.

Anything happen with existing member dues or does that only impact new members?

Interesting that DUO, Tour Club and Quintess have been folded into one on the website. I guess if you're increasing the cost, it's smart to show lesser expensive alternatives.
 
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