Questions re: benefits of buying resale at mandatory resort

[milestogo]

So my husband and I just returned from a promotional week at WKOVN and loved it. So much, in fact, that we decided to buy. But of course as soon as we started reading about it, we realized resale was a much better way to go. And we promptly rescinded.
Which brings me to today. I closed the loop with our sales agent, just as a courtesy, and she came back with a number of claims to try to dissuade me from buying resale. (Our minds were already 100% made up re: rescinding, and we'd already set that in motion a few days ago.)
She claimed that we'd have to pay a $500+ fee each time we wanted to exchange our resale week in Maui for something else within the SVN. She also claimed that we would be treated with no preference, last on the list, subject to availability, yada yada, even at our home resort. And finally, she said we wouldn't be given access to the owner's website for purposes of making reservations.
This doesn't align with what I've read other places, including on this forum. Any older and wiser re-sale owners out there that could speak to this? I'm assuming this is just developer-smoke-blowing, but the fact that she put it in writing gave me pause enough to at least verify whether there was any legitimacy to her claims.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Ken555]

You made the right decision - congrats!

The sales rep is just blowing smoke. Ignore her, she's all wrong.

 

[vacationtime1]

Lies. All lies.

The $119 SVN fee covers all StarOption exchanges (it also provides an Interval membership should you wish to do an external exchange). Developer purchasers pay exactly the same fee.

The "owners' website" is a work in progress, to put it in the most polite way. No one, not even a developer purchaser, can make a direct reservation using MyStarCentral; all it does is send an email to a reservationist who will fill the order in due course.

"No preference, last on the list"? Not my experience. I stayed on the top floor for my ocean front unit this June (which I purchased resale).

 

[psuwalt]

Not A Problem

We purchased our second SVV on eBay in September 2010. It's an EOY (even year) usage. It shows up in my starwood account along with the first purchase I made several years ago.

Just last week I did an exchage via II for two weeks in Maui for September, 2012. The only fee I incurred was the II fee of $114 each.

You made the right decision.

 

[DeniseM]

Wow! Those sales people must be getting desperate!

None of her statements are true - not one!

The only differences between buying resale vs. from the developer at the Maui resorts are:

1) You will save more than 50% by buying resale
2) You won't be able to convert to Starpoints (no big deal)

For all the details about how Starwood really works, see the FAQ at the top of this forum.

 

[milestogo]

Thank you all for your quick and helpful responses! It's good to get the validation that my understanding was correct--and that the developer/salespeople were the ones who were off base. It's surprising how blatant they are with the written misinformation (lies!). I would expect a publicly traded company of this size and caliber to adhere to a higher standard when it comes to what sales tactics they will (or won't) stoop to.

Really, in this day and age of "trust, then verify--aka google it", you'd think developers would be a bit smarter about what they tell potential buyers. Do they really think we're gonna fork over thousands of dollars to buy without checking the veracity of any of their claims? If so, then I'm kindof offended that they take me for a fool!

Thanks again, everyone. You guys are great!

 

[jarta]

"The only differences between buying resale vs. from the developer at the Maui resorts are:"

Seems you forgot some, like:

3. Resale doesn't count toward Elite status;

4. Resale doesn't come with "free" Starpoints for purchasing;

5. Resale doesn't come with the usual 4-6 options to buy blocks of 80K Starpoints at a deep discount;

6. If you are looking to fix an event week or a week 51-52, Starwood has them and resale has very little; and

7. From the developer, you can pick your view (like Oceanfront). Can't do that usually with resale.

Those differences probably do not make the purchase from the developer all that much more appealing. I would always recommend against purchasing from the developer unless you have a very definite reason for doing so and never buying the first timeshare from the developer. However, the numerous differences do exist (but are often overlooked here on TUG).

And, this post does not justify a salesperson telling obvious lies to make a sale. ... eom

 

[DeniseM]

Points 3-5 are correct, but not really pertinent to the questions the OP asked.

Point #6 - The OP was asking specifically about Maui - since the Maui resorts have been sold out for years, there is no reason to think that Starwood has more 51 & 52 weeks for sale than are available on the resale market - for a fraction of the cost.

Point #7 - your statement is incorrect: the view is guaranteed on the deed - with both resale and developer weeks. I can buy any view I want on the resale market - for a fraction of the cost.

 

[PamMo]

Buy resale! We bought resale and have had nothing but wonderful experiences with Starwood. We'll be back in our OF in Maui later this week!

Am I the only one who is curious about what Starwood is selling WKORV for these days? They picked up many units through ROFR this year, would you mind sharing with us the current sales prices at the resort?

 

[jarta]

"Point #6 - The OP was asking specifically about Maui - since the Maui resorts have been sold out for years, there is no reason to think that Starwood has more 51 & 52 weeks for sale than are available on the resale market - for a fraction of the cost.

Point #7 - your statement is incorrect: the view is guaranteed on the deed - with both resale and developer weeks. I can buy any view I want on the resale market - for a fraction of the cost."

Point 6 - Sold out does not matter when there is a ROFR - which Starwood has been exercising at Maui for the 51-52 week units (as well as the better-view weeks).

I guess that ROFR is an additional point. You know there will be no ROFR when Starwood is the seller. However, if you buy one resale as low as you say can be done, will the sale actually go through?

Point 7 - You can buy any view you can find. I guess you are right after you have found the right view. But, I've not seen many of those center OF or corner, deluxe OF units advertised for resale. Sort of like the Riverfront or Steamboat ski weeks, the WSJ BV Plat 2-br lofts or the Lagunamar OS units. But, if you can find it resale, there is no difference - other than 1-5 (or 6) and not just 1-2.

I still agree that all the differences taken as a whole do not make a difference to most buyers. They should buy resale. And, buying resale, especially for the first timeshare bought, makes tons of sense.

I only quarrel with the oversimplification. If a timeshare salesperson oversimplifies in presentation, what's it called? ... eom

 

[DeniseM]

Point 7 - You can buy any view you can find. I guess you are right after you have found the right view. But, I've not seen many of those center OF or corner, deluxe OF units advertised for resale.

But, that's not what you said in your previous post... not even close...

7. From the developer, you can pick your view (like Oceanfront). Can't do that usually with resale.

I only quarrel with the oversimplification. If a timeshare salesperson oversimplifies in presentation, what's it called? ... eom

I only quarrel with the grandiose exaggeration of the virtues of the Starwood Company - what's that called?

 

[milestogo]

Buy resale! We bought resale and have had nothing but wonderful experiences with Starwood. We'll be back in our OF in Maui later this week!

Am I the only one who is curious about what Starwood is selling WKORV for these days? They picked up many units through ROFR this year, would you mind sharing with us the current sales prices at the resort?

They were mostly pushing the Princeville property, but they did offer a couple of the Maui units in the North -- an OV 2BR lockoff for 65,900, an IV 2BR for 49,900. Of course, those units "just became available and will probably be sold within 2-3 hours, so it's best to jump on it now so you don't lose out..." Yeah, given the threat of a double-digit recession, continued high unemployment and a cratered housing market, I bet those units are selling like hot cakes! I better hurry and sign (without even waiting for my husband to get home so we can talk about) or else my opportunity to overpay by 120% will be gone!

 

[DeniseM]

That's all they had to offer? I'm shocked - a reliable source said the developer still had ocean front units and weeks 51 and 52 for sale! What a disappointment!

 

[jarta]

Denise, ... "the grandiose exaggeration of the virtues of the Starwood Company - what's that called?"

That grandiose characterization of my post is what happens on TUG when a poster points out an incomplete, biased post by a Moderator.

Starwood is not virtuous. But, it's not evil, either.

Starwood's a Fortune 500 company in the business of selling timeshares and managing timeshares (among many, many other things). It is what it is and that's neither all good nor all bad. It makes some hilariously bad policy decisions - and many good ones. Like any huge company, Starwood has bad employees - but the vast majority of Starwood employees do their job cheerfully and well.

Some people don't like Starwood. They generally post their complaints on TUG. Some people are satisfied with owning Starwood timeshares. They can post on TUG, too, but generally don't. I do and suffer personal attacks for doing so.

I'd venture to say that there are more Starwood owners who are satisfied with the ownership of their weeks, the degree of finish of the Starwood resorts, the ease of trading in the SVN and II programs (II was not invented by TUG) and the enjoyment of their vacations than the 50,000 people grandiosely claimed by TUG to be members (like the French Foreign Legion or the Chicago eligible voting lists - once in, never out - even through death).

Just try, when you enumerate reasons, to give a complete presentation or count. ... eom

 

[DeniseM]

I am biased, and proud of it - my bias is 100% in favor of the average consumer, who needs accurate facts (not more advertising, inflating the perks of buying from the developer) to protect their hard earned dollar from greedy developers and dishonest sales people.

 

[LisaRex]

milestogo, use this as an opportunity to save thousands of dollars on your purchase. Stay on the course to rescind.

View
As far as view goes, per their own Owner's Agreement, if you call within the Home Resort Priority Period (HRPP - 8-12 months out), you are guaranteed to get your deeded view, provided your view class is not sold out. There is absolutely no mention anywhere that developer owners getting any sort of priority over resale owners.

The only "official" word from Starwood is that view is based on timestamp. Ergo, your best bet for getting the best view is to buy the best view you can afford (and you can buy OF resale for far less than you can buy an IV from the developer!) and call as early as possible in the HRPP window so that you will have the earliest timestamp.

Even if they DO give priority to developer owners on the sly, the worst OF view still beats the best IV.

Right of First Refusal
Yes, a resale unit is subject to Right of First Refusal by Starwood, but do not let this get in the way of negotiating the best deal you can secure. ROFR is hit and miss. MFs will be due in a few weeks and that works in your favor. If one falls through, another deal will come along shortly. Patience can save you tens of thousands of dollars.

Reservations using website
ALL Starwood owners have access to the owner website, even voluntary resale owners (who cannot participate in SVN), because it's the place where you pay your MFs. Anyone can use it to request reservations, but no one does because it's a completely antiquated system. Basically, you send an email request to the reservationists, and they look in their system to see if they can fill it. Then they email you back. There is no online, real-time reservation system, so your best bet is to call SVN, where at least you'll get real time assistance. And I cannot say enough nice things about the SVN operators. Most of them bend over backward to help you, even though admittedly some aren't completely familiar with Starwood's overly complex system.

SVN
Bottom line is that WKORV is mandatory and owners are dues-paying members of SVN, even if they never intend to exchange out of their home resort. Starwood cannot force resale owners to to participate in their program, and pay that mandatory SVN fee every year, only to treat them like second hand citizens.

The only appreciable difference being a resale owner is that you do not have the option of converting your your 2-bdrm villa into 72,000 StarPoints. I will leave you to determine whether that benefit is worth 20 grand.

 

[PamMo]

milestogo, if you have your heart set on buying a unit in Hawaii (the only way to guarantee an ocean view other than renting), just have patience. Starwood doesn't pick up all the great deals with ROFR, so chances are good that you'll find exactly what you want and save bucket loads of money on a resale. A quick search on eBay found an annual OV 2BR at WKORVN with a Buy It Now price of $16.5k - WAY less than $65.9k!!! WPORV sells for much less than that, but you will not get StarOptions with a resale at Princeville as it's not a mandatory resort.

So, good luck and let us know if/what/when you buy!