Question on partial transfer of timeshare

[Bsachetti]

A timeshare purchase of mine progressed through the contract phase. I got word from the title company that HGVC waiver ROFR, the estoppel looked ok, then they prepared the new deed and filed it with the county. That's where things got sideways -- when the title company sent the transfer documents to HGVC, they were told there was an outstanding loan balance so they couldn't process the transfer. I'm not sure why this wasn't caught by the title company or perhaps wasn’t noted on the estoppel.

The title company has gone silent and I'm left with a recorded deed but no timeshare. So I assume the county believes I'm the owner but HGVC disagrees (I have a copy of the recorded deed and confirmed it's recorded on the county website). I assume the current owner continues to use it and make payments but will they get blocked if they try to sell it because of the deed on file with the county?

Suggestions on what to do at this point?

 

[Talent312]

It sounds like you may have to file a lawsuit (maybe "small claims") to get either specific performance of your contract or your $$ back. Your claim would be vs. the seller for breach of warranty under the deed, vs. the closing agency (if it knew & failed to disclose), HGV for negligence in it's estoppel. It may be cheaper to pay off the loan, depending on the $$ involved.

You ought to see a lawyer who offers no or low-fee initial consults, before relying on legal advice from us armchair quarterbacks.

 

[vacationtime1]

A recent timeshare purchase of mine progressed through the contract phase, I got the estoppel and everything looked ok, and the deed was prepared and filed with the county. That's where things got sideways -- when the title company sent the transfer documents to HGVC, they were told there is an outstanding loan balance so they couldn't process the transfer. I'm not sure why this wasn't on the estoppel.

The title company has gone silent and I'm left with a recorded deed but no timeshare. So I assume the county believes I'm the owner but HGVC disagrees (I have a copy of the recorded deed and confirmed it's recorded on the county website). I assume the current owner continues to use it and make payments but will they get blocked if they try to sell it because of the deed on file with the county?

Suggestions on what to do at this point?

Did you purchase title insurance as part of the transaction?

 

[Bsachetti]

Did you purchase title insurance as part of the transaction?

No title insurance with this one, unfortunately. It was a fairly inexpensive unit at around $1600.

 

[bogey21]

It was a fairly inexpensive unit at around $1600.

If you can't get it resolved by the Title Company, you have a decision to make. It could be the cost of hiring a lawyer is more than the cost of walking away. The downside of walking away is that HGVC may find you by checking to see who owns the Week on the County Records and come after you for past due MFs even though they won't give you usage until the loan is paid off. Not likely but possible I guess...

George

 

[alwysonvac]

Yikes!!

Did you pay the HGVC Estoppel Fee and did this go through HGVC ROFR?

The only suggestion, I can offer is to post this issue on the buying, selling and renting forum to get more viewers and possibly more advice.

In any event, please let us know the outcome in case anyone else finds themselves in this position. I hope it all works out.

 

[Bsachetti]

Yikes!!

Did you pay the HGVC Estoppel Fee and did this go through HGVC ROFR?

The only suggestion, I can offer is to post this issue on the buying, selling and renting forum to get more viewers and possibly more advice.

In any event, please let us know the outcome in case anyone else finds themselves in this position. I hope it all works out.

Yes and yes... I paid the estoppel fee via title/closing costs and it passed ROFR.

 

[alwysonvac]

Perhaps follow up with HGVC and simply ask what can be done to resolve this issue since a new deed has been recorded. Include a copy of the estoppel and let them know that you paid their estoppel fee, went through ROFR, and nothing alerted you to an outstanding loan. Perhaps they can provide some useful suggestions.

The ARDA site also has some information including contacting their consumer support team and filing a complaint (since the title company has gone silent). - http://www.arda-roc.org/resales/

 

[Talent312]

It may help to have an attorney write a few "demand" letters.
One to the seller to pay off his loan within 'x' days.
One to HGVC to make the transfer within 'x' days.
One to the closing agent to unwind the sale within 'x' days.
.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I hope HGVC helps you sort this out since this seems to be an Estoppel reporting issue (which is scary) or the closing company overlooked this.

Who is the third party closing agency? They should be helping you with this and should not have released the money's to the other party if there was a loan outstanding.

While you are looking at the deed you should also compare to the last deed filed to make sure the third party closing agency didn't get other material items wrong such as the property location.

Another reason to spend a few hundred dollars on title insurance. What a headache!

 

[Bsachetti]

This was a company called Rodgers and Lee out of TN. Curious what happens later with the deed in my name but HGVC showing a different owner. I’m not even sure the closing company is still doing business.

 

[alwysonvac]

The Better Business Bureau indicates they are no longer doing business.

Rodgers & Lee Title Company, LLC

Customer Complaints Summary
43 complaints closed in last 3 years
26 complaints closed in last 12 months

https://www.bbb.org/us/tn/seymour/p...r/rodgers-lee-title-company-llc-0533-90024669

 

[RX8]

This was a company called Rodgers and Lee out of TN. Curious what happens later with the deed in my name but HGVC showing a different owner. I’m not even sure the closing company is still doing business.

Was this an eBay purchase? If so, contact the eBay seller for assistance. This title company is probably related to the eBay seller.

Unfortunately, the title company appears to be having problems which includes bouncing a $150 check in February of this year. See the thread below.

https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/e-bay-seller-allseasonstravel.241711/

 

[RX8]

The Better Business Bureau indicates they are no longer doing business.

Rodgers & Lee Title Company, LLC

Customer Complaints Summary
43 complaints closed in last 3 years
26 complaints closed in last 12 months

https://www.bbb.org/us/tn/seymour/p...r/rodgers-lee-title-company-llc-0533-90024669

I didn't see Alwysonvac's post until after I posted.

Reading some of the BBB complaints it looks like the exit company/eBay seller AllSeasonsTravel and Rodgers and Lee Title are one and the same. Many complaints are that they paid thousands to get rid of a timeshare only to have them go out of business shortly thereafter.

 

[Bsachetti]

I suspect the seller and I are both in a bind. Their deed is now in my name. They are probably still paying for a unit they wanted to get rid of and the title company has closed shop.

Do I have any obligations/risk based on the deed being in my name? What about the sellers? I assume they can’t ever sell without a clean deed/title.

Just a mess...

 

[klpca]

Did your estoppel look legitimate? I would be suspicious if it looked like a copy of a copy. This is just the type of closing company that would pull a stunt like that.

I would call HGVC to see if they provided the estoppel. If they did, then they should help you out since you relied on their representations. If they never sent one, then I don't think that they will be of much help. Sorry that you are going through this.

 

[alwysonvac]

..
Do I have any obligations/risk based on the deed being in my name? What about the sellers? I assume they can’t ever sell without a clean deed/title.

Just a mess...

JMHO... I think you have an obligation if there is a recorded deed with your name on it.

Before you reach out to HGVC, I would find out if the deed was truly recorded.
You should be able to look it up. Hopefully there are only two recorded deeds on file due to the outstanding loan (the deed between you & seller and the prior deed between the seller & HGVC).

Hopefully HGVC will be able to assist as a result of your follow up. I would think all parties would have an interest in getting this resolved.

Good Luck

 

[Aurelius]

In theory you should be able to disclaim the warranty deed. Typically it’s only signed by the seller.

 

[Bsachetti]

The deed was recorded... I have a copy that was filed with the county recorder and I verified via their online portal. Good point, Aurelius, as it is only signed by the seller. If this goes badly, I can try to go that route. This is just such an awkward state to be in, having the deed but not having ownership on the resort side.

 

[Harry]

Good news. You have a recorded deed went throug ROFR and cleared what they call estoppel (a legal word of art which I do not like as used).
Hilton should be able to resolve this. Go through their process which will altimately end up in their legal department. Make sure you use the words "your mistake" as much as you can being polite, courteous and innocent. I would be very surprised if this is not resolved.

Harry

 

[Bsachetti]

Good news. You have a recorded deed went throug ROFR and cleared what they call estoppel (a legal word of art which I do not like as used).
Hilton should be able to resolve this. Go through their process which will altimately end up in their legal department. Make sure you use the words "your mistake" as much as you can being polite, courteous and innocent. I would be very surprised if this is not resolved.

Harry

I agree that this would make sense if we were just hung up on the transfer but there is the issue that the seller has an outstanding loan on the property so HGVC won’t transfer until that is paid (and I don’t want that liability). So I have the deed and the county thinks it’s my property. The seller continues to show as the owner to HGVC and they have a loan and I assume they are still making payments and covering MF.

 

[Talent312]

Worst come to worst, the OP can sign a quitclaim deed back to the seller.
At least that way, it'll be out of his name, and he can sue for his $$ back.
.

 

[PigsDad]

JMHO... I think you have an obligation if there is a recorded deed with your name on it.

But since HGVC has told the OP they could not process the transfer, I don't see how HGVC could hold the OP responsible for any MFs, etc. They can't charge the OP and then turn around and deny use.

Kurt

 

[CalGalTraveler]

With these high volume processors, it is possible that the estoppel they sent you was not the correct estoppel for the property. Does the name and address of the seller line up with what's on your contract?

Also did you use a broker? If so they can intervene to clean this up.

 

[RX8]

With these high volume processors, it is possible that the estoppel they sent you was not the correct estoppel for the property. Does the name and address of the the seller line up with what's on your contract?

Also did you use a broker? If so they can intervene to clean this up.

I may be wrong but I believe the title company, now out of business, was not a "real" title company but rather an extension of eBay seller/exit firm AllSeasonsTravel.

@Bsachetti, was this an eBay purchase from AllSeasonsTravel?