Putting a relative on a deed without their knowledge or consent?

[TUGBrian]

Found this interesting, got an email today from an individual who claims her mother signed up for an OLCC Florida timeshare and somehow put the childs name on the deed as well, despite the child not even being present at the presentation...nor having any knowledge of the purchase. (it is an adult child).

now that the parent is deceased, of course OLCC is coming after the remaining owner listed on the deed for unpaid MFs etc.

I found it very interesting that someone could be put on a deed without being present at the sales presentation, not signing the sales contract, or even having any knowledge of the transaction at all...this seems very shady to me?

Note that the child does indeed still have a copy of the original sales contract and documents, and claims the only signature is her mothers.

 

[snickers104]

Kinda don't believe the child....without a signature there is no consent of ownership

 

[csxjohn]

I've never bought retail buy all of my resale purchases were easy to do this with except of the one I have in the works now.

I'm waiting on a BG transfer to go through and all the peeps on the deed had to sign and have it notarized. Each signature was notarized individually.

The others were just a matter of giving them the names I wanted on the deed. My wife is on all of them and one daughter is on one, they never signed anything.

 

[traveldaddy]

Mine are all resale, but all owners had to at least sign something, but not all of them had the signature notarized.

I would like to hear more about this in the future - I can't see how they can force someone to pay for something with no proof they ever bought it. I can see how if they try, it could damage credit rating and be a pain for the person, but the HOA/Management company should eventually lose this clearly emphasize "should" and also only my not so knowleable opinion).

 

[presley]

Bought from the developer? I can't believe it would have her name on it without having to sign and notarize the contract. In California, all buyers have to be notarized. I guess it could be different in different states.

 

[yma01]

I've done it!

When I purchased my TS in Cabo 8 years ago from the developer (Hacienda Encantada), I added my 2 daughters names as well as my sister on the contract. I figured this way, they would benefit from all the owners' amenities that I do. Didn't consider what would happen if I were to perish.
Perhaps the timeshare allow this because if they are unable to collect maintenance fees from the original owner, they can go after the co-owners. However, I never provided their SS numbers, so unsure how anyone could go after them.

 

[GrayFal]

I've never bought retail buy all of my resale purchases were easy to do this with except of the one I have in the works now.

I'm waiting on a BG transfer to go through and all the peeps on the deed had to sign and have it notarized. Each signature was notarized individually.

The others were just a matter of giving them the names I wanted on the deed. My wife is on all of them and one daughter is on one, they never signed anything.

OT, but happy to hear you went forward with BG purchase. Very happy owner here.

 

[mtwingcpa]

I think it MIGHT be possible to add someone as a "joint tenant with right of survivorship" without their knowledge or permission. But in such case I would presume they would have the right to "disclaim" ownership upon the death of the primary owner. Naturally, results may vary from state to state.

 

[Talent312]

In Florida, the only signatures required on a deed are that of the seller (grantor), his/her witnesses & a notary.
It can be recorded without the buyer (grantee) ever seeing the deed.

Becuz the child now has an interest in the property, wanted or not, he can be sued for foreclosure.
But he's not personally liable for related debts. He could sue to have his interest voided, but why bother?
.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

Bought from the developer? I can't believe it would have her name on it without having to sign and notarize the contract. In California, all buyers have to be notarized. I guess it could be different in different states.

I live in Ca. and have bought four timeshares. Three of which are in Ca. As a buyer, I never have had to have anything notarized. A seller needs to get some docs (the deed?) notarized, but not the buyer.

 

[TUGBrian]

yes, apparently this was a joint tenant/survivorship deed...so that clears that up.

however in this case, the child was an adult at the time (not just 18y/o...but very much older..although im not sure that matters here?)...and had no knowledge of the timeshares existence until she just recently began getting letters from the resort demanding the payment of back fees...and threatening foreclosure as the mother had passed away.

interval was purchased directly from the resort, in florida. they are not florida residents.

also interesting to note that the daughter has contacted the resort and explained all of the above (or at least has claimed to do so) and they dont seem interested in taking the deed back. which I found quite ridiculous.

 

[traveldaddy]

In Florida, the only signatures required on a deed are that of the seller (grantor) and his/her witnesses, and the notary. The buyer (grantee) never has to even see the deed.

Becuz the child now has an interest in the property, wanted or not, he can be sued for foreclosure, but he's not personally liable for any related debts. He could also sue to have his interest voided, but why bother?
.

The gift that just keeps giving........how special.

 

[csxjohn]

OT, but happy to hear you went forward with BG purchase. Very happy owner here.

BG got the paperwork from the eBay mega seller around July 7, so now the waiting game starts.

 

[b2bailey]

I Beg to Differ

Kinda don't believe the child....without a signature there is no consent of ownership

= = =

Many years ago when I first started to buy resale I bought a Palm Springs unit and as a 'surprise' graduation gift to my daughter I added her name to the deed. She was not required to sign anything and did not know of it. At the time of her graduation the property had started to go downhill and I could see the writing on the wall, so I decided not to mention it to her.

Fast forward to current time -- I was advised this property can no longer be traded through RCI -- I saw the property was listed for sale. I stopped paying Maintenance Fees <along with many others> and what do you know -- MY DAUGHTER started receiving collection calls for the maintenance fees. And I swear to you SHE never signed a thing. She took a hit on her credit report and I wrote a letter for her explaining the situation.

 

[Ty1on]

= = =

Many years ago when I first started to buy resale I bought a Palm Springs unit and as a 'surprise' graduation gift to my daughter I added her name to the deed. She was not required to sign anything and did not know of it. At the time of her graduation the property had started to go downhill and I could see the writing on the wall, so I decided not to mention it to her.

Fast forward to current time -- I was advised this property can no longer be traded through RCI -- I saw the property was listed for sale. I stopped paying Maintenance Fees <along with many others> and what do you know -- MY DAUGHTER started receiving collection calls for the maintenance fees. And I swear to you SHE never signed a thing. She took a hit on her credit report and I wrote a letter for her explaining the situation.

Did they repair her credit report?

 

[w.bob]

Maybe I should add the name of my State Attorney general to my deed and he can deal with the mess when the time comes.

 

[csxjohn]

Maybe I should add the name of my State Attorney general to my deed and he can deal with the mess when the time comes.

Or the governor or other elected officials to show them what a mess we are dealing with in Timeshare World.

 

[BJRSanDiego]

I live in Ca. and have bought four timeshares. Three of which are in Ca. As a buyer, I never have had to have anything notarized. A seller needs to get some docs (the deed?) notarized, but not the buyer.

I just happened to think - - when I have been buying, I've had to photocopy a picture ID (drivers license, etc.) and was told that the resort required this. This might keep me from adding Governor (Moonbeam) Brown's name to the deed.:hysterical:

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I've never bought retail buy all of my resale purchases were easy to do this with except of the one I have in the works now.

I'm waiting on a BG transfer to go through and all the peeps on the deed had to sign and have it notarized. Each signature was notarized individually.

The others were just a matter of giving them the names I wanted on the deed. My wife is on all of them and one daughter is on one, they never signed anything.

John, now you can stay in MI at Boyne. Congrats

 

[csxjohn]

John, now you can stay in MI at Boyne. Congrats

Thanks, it's a pretty good summer week at the Hammocks so that pesky ROFR is sitting out there.

 

[Susan2]

Grantee's signature not usually required

Kinda don't believe the child....without a signature there is no consent of ownership

Most states do not have a "consent" to own property. It is the seller who signs a deed. Hawaii is one exception to this rule. That rationale seems to be because of the convenants and restrictions on the property -- especially timeshares.

New York State has no requirement that the purchaser sign the deed, but there are other forms (tax-related) that are required for filing that usually require the signature of the purchaser. (This can be worked around in certain, individual circumstances.) Hawaii also has tax forms that need to be signed by all grantees (purchasers and giftees).

I am admitted to the bar in NYS and Hawaii, but I have done some of my own deeds in other states (Arkansas, Florida, Nevada). It is not necessary to be admitted to the bar in a state to do deeds on one's own behalf.

I have never seen any states except Hawaii that require a grantee (purchase or other) to sign the deed or other paperwork. I guess it's assumed that any grantee is willing. This policy may need to be reviewed.

On the other hand, I believe that there should be laws throughout the US (and everywhere else, too, actually) that require resorts to accept deeds back from owners who wish to surrender their timeshares to the resort. That would solve a number of problems, including the post-card companies. Many resort HOAs would fight such a requirement, but I don't believe that their objections are reaonable. A well-run resort should be rentable, or used by the owners. IMO if the resort is not able to remain occupied and functional with the maintenance fees paid by the people who use it, it should be allowed to fail.

 

[Susan2]

Contract, not deed, requires signature

Bought from the developer? I can't believe it would have her name on it without having to sign and notarize the contract. In California, all buyers have to be notarized. I guess it could be different in different states.

A contract is a promise to pay. A deed is merely proof of ownership.

Not all deeds require contracts.

Furthermore, the resorts may want copies of ID -- and social security numbers -- but that is intended to allow the resort to trace owners who have moved. (I know. I have served on HOA Boards when they instituted the policy of requiring this information.)

 

[Ty1on]

Most states do not have a "consent" to own property. It is the seller who signs a deed. Hawaii is one exception to this rule. That rationale seems to be because of the convenants and restrictions on the property -- especially timeshares.

New York State has no requirement that the purchaser sign the deed, but there are other forms (tax-related) that are required for filing that usually require the signature of the purchaser. (This can be worked around in certain, individual circumstances.) Hawaii also has tax forms that need to be signed by all grantees (purchasers and giftees).

I am admitted to the bar in NYS and Hawaii, but I have done some of my own deeds in other states (Arkansas, Florida, Nevada). It is not necessary to be admitted to the bar in a state to do deeds on one's own behalf.

I have never seen any states except Hawaii that require a grantee (purchase or other) to sign the deed or other paperwork. I guess it's assumed that any grantee is willing. This policy may need to be reviewed.

On the other hand, I believe that there should be laws throughout the US (and everywhere else, too, actually) that require resorts to accept deeds back from owners who wish to surrender their timeshares to the resort. That would solve a number of problems, including the post-card companies. Many resort HOAs would fight such a requirement, but I don't believe that their objections are reaonable. A well-run resort should be rentable, or used by the owners. IMO if the resort is not able to remain occupied and functional with the maintenance fees paid by the people who use it, it should be allowed to fail.

I think what needs to be looked at is the difference between a real property deed and a services contract.

In my (non-legally qualified) mind, simply owning a deed to a timeshare shouldn't obligate that owner to paying maintenance fees or any other services in connection with the property. Simply put, if I haven't signed a contract stipulating that I will pay maintenance fees for a resort, I should not be subject to credit reporting or collection if I don't pay those fees. Granted, I should not enjoy use privileges without paying those fees, but I should not be coerced into paying them.

 

[Susan2]

I think what needs to be looked at is the difference between a real property deed and a services contract.

In my (non-legally qualified) mind, simply owning a deed to a timeshare shouldn't obligate that owner to paying maintenance fees or any other services in connection with the property. Simply put, if I haven't signed a contract stipulating that I will pay maintenance fees for a resort, I should not be subject to credit reporting or collection if I don't pay those fees. Granted, I should not enjoy use privileges without paying those fees, but I should not be coerced into paying them.

It is an intriguing idea that timeshare resorts should not be allowed to report delinquent owners to credit reporting agencies. In fact, some lenders routinely ignore entries from timeshares. And they can be disputed, and then must be removed if the debtor's disputes are found to be valid.

The problem is that the laws were put in place on the understanding that owning timeshares was a benefit, rather than a liability. In fact, who would ever have bought a timeshare NOT believing that it was a benefit?

IMO, the problem was caused by resorts over-promising the benefits and uses of timeshares, and they should be held accountable. Most of them have taken their profits and run, however.

 

[TUGBrian]

that is a great distinction...but I dont feel (at least in this case) that the resort seems to care that the child never signed the sales contract....but is instead the last living owner on the deed and thus "they are where we are sending the bills"

While I wouldnt normally fault a resort for doing this ASSUMING the last remaining owner on the deed wanted to continue owning the timeshare...what really amazed me is that after informing (well, according to her) the resort HOA of the situation, that the resort basically said "tough luck, pay up or we send you to collections and foreclose on you" vs willingly taking the deed back.