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Purchased additional credits - too late to cancel

Tidalwave

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My dad has been a Worldmark owner for years, we like it and thinks it's been pretty good value overall. He's added credits over the years at various owner updates, paying way more than he should, but oh well. He has 70,000 credits, and they recently convinced him to buy an additional 5,000 credits, selling a fantasy of extra access to this and that, and the ability to sell/rent unused points through new connections. He went ahead with it, even though we have way more points than we need. I was hopeful that Oregon had an extended time to back out of something like this, but I think it's only the 5 day period, which we are past. Is there anything he can do to cancel this? Or, would he just eat the down payment and cancel the rest of the loan for the credits? Or... nothing to do? Thanks.
 

bnoble

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I think the important question is what happens if he defaults on the loan. In particular, does that also freeze the entire account? I don't know, but hopefully some WM owners can chime in.

If the answer is "Yes, the entire account is frozen," then the answer might be "nothing to do" unless you are willing to just let the whole thing disappear.
 

Tacoma

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How old is your Dad? Is there any way you could argue this on taking advantage of a senior? I certainly wouldn't jeopardize a 70000 point account over the new 5000 points butI also firmly believe that after a certain age they should not be able to target people to buy.
 

HudsHut

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Welcome to TUG @Tidalwave

Send a rescission letter tomorrow.
It's unlikely to work, but you must try.
If that doesn't work, use the exploitation of an elderly person argument.

Unfortunately, the new purchase puts the entire account at risk, if he defaults.

Do not let him attend any more "updates" - they are ALWAYS sales pitches to buy more. And he's a nice guy, and doesn't want the salesman to "feel bad" or "not like him", so he's a prime target.
 

CaliSunshine

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Raise a fuss!

And worst case 70K points can be found resale for a lot less than 10K.
 

Tidalwave

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Thanks for the replies. He reached out, zero help. I see what you're saying about defaulting could jeopardize the entire account, not good. We may just have to eat this bad decision, make the best use of all the points that we can. It's just a ton of points! Does anyone have creative ideas to use/offer/sell them? They were also pitching him on the idea of booking units and "selling" them at a 60/40 split with some connection. Sounded like a bad idea.
 

bnoble

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Yeah, it's a bad idea.

@CaliSunshine has an interesting observatin. Let the account go into default and be forfeited, especially because it is more credits than you need. Then, buy (on the resale market) a package of credits that is a better fit. The total cost of doing that might be lower than paying this off, and you'll have a right-sized account. You will lose developer benefits if you do this, and that might or might not matter to you. It would not matter very much to me.
 

CaliSunshine

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Thanks for the replies. He reached out, zero help. I see what you're saying about defaulting could jeopardize the entire account, not good. We may just have to eat this bad decision, make the best use of all the points that we can. It's just a ton of points! Does anyone have creative ideas to use/offer/sell them? They were also pitching him on the idea of booking units and "selling" them at a 60/40 split with some connection. Sounded like a bad idea.
Yes renting through Wyndham tends to be a bad idea. Check out wmowners for actual owners experiences with ExtraHolidays, etc.
There are many ways to raise a fuss, including by emailing/mailing their executives, the media, even your local politicians. Doesn't cost you more than a few stamps. Just beware of anyone who says they can get you out of your timeshare for an upfront fee!
 

HudsHut

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The easiest thing to do before any default decision is to rent out the "available" credits to other owners.


Renting out reservations takes patience and persistence. In some cases, you will carry that reservation for nearly a year before it rents. Watch all "cancel by" deadlines, and make sure to cancel.
Find a desirable resort, then a desirable timeframe.

Post ad an on these sites. Ads are free to place, but some take a small commission.
go-koala.com (takes 8% of rent revenue)
TUG Marketplace,
airbnb.com (takes about 4% of rent revenue)

Under no circumstances should he use Extra Holidays to rent out reservations.
 

sue1947

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Yeah, it's a bad idea.

@CaliSunshine has an interesting observatin. Let the account go into default and be forfeited, especially because it is more credits than you need. Then, buy (on the resale market) a package of credits that is a better fit. The total cost of doing that might be lower than paying this off, and you'll have a right-sized account. You will lose developer benefits if you do this, and that might or might not matter to you. It would not matter very much to me.
This is a really, really bad idea in this situation. It may be interesting to a non-WM owner, but the developer benefits, in this case, are likely worth something.

wmowners.com is a forum by and for Worldmark owners and you will get advises there from owners who understand the ins and outs of this system.
First step is to convince him to stop going to the updates. He doesn't need that parking pass or wristband, but can get his keys at the front desk and ignore all that foolishness. The 'updates' are just sales pitches and they lie all the time.
Second: With a 70K account likely purchased from the developer, it is likely a Platinum account which comes with free housekeeping. Check to see if it is all travel share. It's not worth paying developer prices for, but since he has it, it's worth keeping. On the other hand, if the account isn't being used for lots of trips, the HK benefit may not be worth the extra Travelshare dues. Again, ask questions at wmowners to get good advise about your specific situation
If there are credits in the account that are about to expire, rent them out at wmowners. Renting credits is transferring them from one owner's account to another and usually takes only a few days. That will give you time to sort out what to do with the rest.
 

CO skier

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@CaliSunshine has an interesting observatin. Let the account go into default and be forfeited, especially because it is more credits than you need. Then, buy (on the resale market) a package of credits that is a better fit. The total cost of doing that might be lower than paying this off, and you'll have a right-sized account. You will lose developer benefits if you do this, and that might or might not matter to you. It would not matter very much to me.
This is a really, really bad idea in this situation. It may be interesting to a non-WM owner, but the developer benefits, in this case, are likely worth something.

Let us do the arithmetic why defaulting on the 70k membership might be a really, really good idea in this situation. Defaulting on the new 5k saves whatever is owed on the new purchase -- $12,000-$15,000-ish -- and the whole 70k account is cancelled. Just the TravelShare dues on 70k is $625-ish/year. Are you getting $625/year in savings on this account, including "free" housekeeping; i.e., are you using more than 11 HK/year (6 included with the ownership + what $625 extra dues would buy)? Probably not, since you are having trouble using all the credits as it is. Even with "free housekeeping" there is no way you can possibly be getting TravelShare savings that justifies paying the new $12,000-$15,000 cost over the entire, whatever, years of ownership.

There are 70k-ish and less WorldMark accounts for sale on eBay where, valuing available credits at $0.09/credit (Monday Madness rate), the seller is essentially paying the buyer a couple thousand dollars to take over the account.

Buy one of those memberships (in a different name from your dad) if you want to continue as a WorldMark vacationer, and default on the current 70k account. You will get the "right-sized" WorldMark account for your usage, without the hassle of renting-out unneeded credits, and save thousands, and thousands, and thousands, maybe more than $10,000 in the process.

Well worth the effort involved.
 
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bnoble

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And in fairness, I said that it would depend on how valuable they found those benefits. My trips tend to be longer and in high demand seasons, so I would not typically pay for any extra housekeeping. The occasional one every few years might be worth paying depending on the details.
 

Tidalwave

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These are interesting ideas. Thanks everyone for the feedback. I doubt my dad will want to go the default route, even though there may be a potential for savings there. I think we are resigned to using it and enjoying it, maybe finding ways to rent out some of the points, but not fretting over the mistake. It's a bummer that they prey on people like this, but overall we've enjoyed traveling through Worldmark.

Another question/idea: Would there be any major red flags to putting me on the account ($299 fee or so) to be able to use it more frequently and not get hit with a guest pass each time? This might be a way for our family to take advantage and enjoy this more, just use it and enjoy it! We live in the PNW, so close to many of the properties. Thus, a few nights here and a few nights there would be great without eating up guest passes and then the $99 fee. One last detail, it is a no-housekeeping account, so the shorter stays are just as good as any.

Any other thoughts on maximizing such a large WM account? I've looked at RCI... seems okay. Then there is the Club Wyndham access as well. All this extra stuff is exactly how they suckered him into buying more credits, so may as well learn the best ways to use it! Thanks.
 

CaliSunshine

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These are interesting ideas. Thanks everyone for the feedback. I doubt my dad will want to go the default route, even though there may be a potential for savings there. I think we are resigned to using it and enjoying it, maybe finding ways to rent out some of the points, but not fretting over the mistake. It's a bummer that they prey on people like this, but overall we've enjoyed traveling through Worldmark.

Another question/idea: Would there be any major red flags to putting me on the account ($299 fee or so) to be able to use it more frequently and not get hit with a guest pass each time? This might be a way for our family to take advantage and enjoy this more, just use it and enjoy it! We live in the PNW, so close to many of the properties. Thus, a few nights here and a few nights there would be great without eating up guest passes and then the $99 fee. One last detail, it is a no-housekeeping account, so the shorter stays are just as good as any.

Any other thoughts on maximizing such a large WM account? I've looked at RCI... seems okay. Then there is the Club Wyndham access as well. All this extra stuff is exactly how they suckered him into buying more credits, so may as well learn the best ways to use it! Thanks.
You’d want to check if that makes you liable for the loan also.

There are many ways to use Worldmark points to your advantage. Besides renting them out to other owners for a slight loss you can try to book in demand weeks and rent them for cash. Or since you don’t have to pay for housekeeping you can, like you mentioned, use it more like a hotel, making one night weeknight stays or two night weekend stays. Or you can get really into exchanging (look at Interval if you want to trade into more of the fancier Marriotts/Vistanas/Disneys).
 

rickandcindy23

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And in fairness, I said that it would depend on how valuable they found those benefits. My trips tend to be longer and in high demand seasons, so I would not typically pay for any extra housekeeping. The occasional one every few years might be worth paying depending on the details.
Our daughter burns ours by going to Seattle for a few days at a time. Maybe I should explain to her that using HK credits for her short stays, and always in smaller unit sizes, is costing me a lot of extra HK on my 3 bedrooms. She is used to booking Wyndham with unlimited HK.
 

Tidalwave

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Our daughter burns ours by going to Seattle for a few days at a time. Maybe I should explain to her that using HK credits for her short stays, and always in smaller unit sizes, is costing me a lot of extra HK on my 3 bedrooms. She is used to booking Wyndham with unlimited HK.
Yeah, very similar to us. My dad has been very generous over the years letting anyone enjoy it. But the guest pass limitations make the short 2-3 night stays a little less effective, just one more fee to think about. But yeah, no housekeeping is a huge plus, so if I do decide to get on the account, short stays will be fantastic. Few nights on Orcas, maybe do a Vancouver and Victoria combo for 3 night each or so. Lots of possibilities.
 
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