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Prosopagnosia AKA Face Blindness - try the Famous Faces Test

pjrose

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I have Prosopagnosia, AKA Face Blindness. It's hard for me to tell people apart unless there's something quite distinctive about them - glasses, hair, size. Even so, I have to work hard to memorize their face and then associate it with their name. It's less hard with my front-row students and those with distinctive characteristics, but the rest, forget it. If I see them out of context, e.g. in different seats or walking around campus, it's hopeless.

I am terrible with movies and TV, because most of the characters with similar coloring and hair look the same to me - in Downton Abbey, I couldn't tell the two older thin dark-haired women apart - Mrs. Hughes and the always secretive one whose name I can't remember, and I got Mrs. Bates (the former) mixed up with them too. Mr. Bates and Mr. Carson were a problem. You get the idea.

If you think you might have this and/or are interested in learning more, go to http:www/faceblind.org .

Try the Famous Faces Test http://www.faceblind.org/facetests/index.php
I got 3/30 (and one of those I got only because of that person's glasses - sans glasses I wouldn't have known who it was). DH got 29/30, and a friend got 27/30.

The second link on the tests takes you here http://www.testmybrain.org/ and from there you can click "Can You Name That Face". I got 0.

Any other Prosos out there?
 

Passepartout

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That's really interesting. We saw a 60 Minutes segment on this subject last Sunday- I think the video is archived here: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50121783 There was a related phenomenon where some people who have been found to be 'super recognizers' who never forgot a face. They can recognize people even unseen and over decades of aging.

One of the personnel people in the large company (5000) employees could and would regularly recognize any employee by name, anywhere. He led bus tours to Mormon Church sites in the Midwest/East. At a lunch stop, they were leaving the restaurant and he turned to a local woman and asked if she was (Mable Jones). She said her name was Mable but hadn't been (Jones) for 40 years. Ray told her that they sat together in the second grade. A most unusual talent.

Fascinating subject. I don't know whether to offer sympathy to you or congratulations for succeeding in life even with this additional difficulty. OK, I got 18 pure IDs, 8, I know who this is but can't put a name to 'em, and the rest, Huh? Never heard of 'em.

Jim
 
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ricoba

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29/30

And the one I missed, didn't even look like the guy to me!

So, I guess I have better face recognition skills than thought. Now if I could just remember where I put the check book or keys on a regular basis!!! :D
 

Rose Pink

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I have paranoia. The site wouldn't let me take the test without entering my name, etc. I won't do that.

PJ, I did not know that about you. Interesting. You are probably one of the most intelligent people here on Tug--you teach college-level math and statistics. Interesting how the brain works.
 

pjrose

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That's really interesting. We saw a 60 Minutes segment on this subject last Sunday- I think the video is archived here: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50121783 There was a related phenomenon where some people who have been found to be 'super recognizers' who never forgot a face. They can recognize people even unseen and over decades of aging.

One of the personnel people in the large company (5000) employees could and would regularly recognize any employee by name, anywhere. He led bus tours to Mormon Church sites in the Midwest/East. At a lunch stop, they were leaving the restaurant and he turned to a local woman and asked if she was (Mable Jones). She said her name was Mable but hadn't been (Jones) for 40 years. Ray told her that they sat together in the second grade. A most unusual talent.

Fascinating subject. I don't know whether to offer sympathy to you or congratulations for succeeding in life even with this additional difficulty. OK, I got 18 pure IDs, 8, I know who this is but can't put a name to 'em, and the rest, Huh? Never heard of 'em.

Jim

I'll have to watch the program; several people have told me about it.

And neither, Jim. It's kind of embarrassing, but it is what it is. I'm happy to know that there's a reason I'm sometimes a social Klutz. My sisters both have it too, so there must be some kind of link. It IS frustrating that by the second or third week of classes, DH comes home and says "let's see, who was absent today?" and can actually remember who was absent by his/her looks and seat and name! Even at the end of the term, I do not know my students' names or faces. Now at least I have confirmation - my 3 and his 29 - that my issue is REAL.

Having this difference has helped me when students say "I can't understand...." or "I have trouble with .....". I do have a lot of education and do test high on various IQ type tests, but still have something in my brain that's not wired right. Knowing that about me helps me understand others' issues, and helps me try harder to explain or teach in a way that works for them. Three examples that come to mind:

  • One of my students had spatial issues (but was fine verbally) - he couldn't use a telephone keypad without memorizing exactly what movements needed to be done, and couldn't fold a piece of paper in thirds to put in an envelope, but was an A student.

  • One of my own kids is an auditory learner but is annoyed if a teacher wastes time demonstrating step-by-step hands-on instead of just quickly stating what is to be done.

  • My other kid has to do and feel and experience to understand; verbal or written directions are just confusing. This one is very creative and verbal and great with puzzles, but easily overwhelmed with written or spoken information that may seem simple to others.
Maybe I would have been good working with what we tend to call Learning Disabilities - though I'd prefer to call them Learning Differences!

And Rose, yes, just put in a fake name and email!
 
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pjrose

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29/30

And the one I missed, didn't even look like the guy to me!

So, I guess I have better face recognition skills than thought. Now if I could just remember where I put the check book or keys on a regular basis!!! :D

Congratulations!

I heard once that we don't have to worry if we can't find the check book or keys or glasses, we only have to worry if we can't remember what they are FOR!
 

spirits

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Oh Dear, I think I have this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oHBG3ABUJU


I'm not sure where I originally saw this but I showed it to my staff (I am a conflict resolution facilitator) as a means of eliminating stress. Purpose was to go easy on us old timers. They really enjoyed it.
 

pwrshift

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79%...I'm almost ok. :)

Brian
 

glypnirsgirl

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The differences in how people learn has always been fascinating to me. I can learn visually or kinetically when dealing with any subject. I can REMEMBER things visually, kinetically or auditorily. I cannot LEARN auditorily.

So, when my clients come in to see me, we are not dealing in complex issues - they are basically telling me their "story." I do great with their stories and have no problem remembering which client goes with which story. I normally sit and really concentrate while they are talking - I almost never take notes the first time through. And I remember their story.

Because of this, my clients sometimes want to give me detailed information over the phone. Does not work for me. If I don't have the person sitting in front of me, I have to read the problem. At one point, I thought that the problem was that I needed both ears to process auditory information so I bought a headset with two pads --- and it helped but still was not easy.

I have no idea what all this means. I recognized every person on the test that i had ever seen a picture of --- I missed the male PM.

I have an incredible ability to remember my clients. I had a client call me 15 years after his first bankruptcy and he introduced himself by saying, "Hi, this is David S. you probably don't remember me." I said of course I remember you. I did a Chapter 7 for you. You worked at the post office and you had stopped using your credit cards 5 years before coming to see me and you had been making more than minimum payments and the amount that you owed had not dropped significantly. You retired from the air force. Your daughter who was in her early 20s was not married and was expecting your first grandchild." And that is normal for me. And I would have recognized him if he had walked into my office.

If he had told me the same story over the phone, i would not have remembered it the next day.

My mother INSISTED that we had to listen the first time. She abhorred repeating herself. So my sister, brother and I all can remember the first time. I do not mind explaining something many times, but I can't stand to listen to someone repeating themselves.

It is all a mystery!
 

pjrose

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The differences in how people learn has always been fascinating to me. I can learn visually or kinetically when dealing with any subject. I can REMEMBER things visually, kinetically or auditorily. I cannot LEARN auditorily.

. . . I normally sit and really concentrate while they are talking - I almost never take notes the first time through. And I remember their story.

Because of this, my clients sometimes want to give me detailed information over the phone. Does not work for me. . . .

My mother INSISTED that we had to listen the first time. She abhorred repeating herself. So my sister, brother and I all can remember the first time. I do not mind explaining something many times, but I can't stand to listen to someone repeating themselves.

It is all a mystery!

My guess is that you have combined visual and auditory; while listening to them in person, you are looking at them, watching them, probably making eye contact, so your brain is taking in a whole person. Also, your whole brain (or much of it) is dealing with the person and story. Over the phone, it's just a sound - but meanwhile your eyes are looking at something completely different, so it's not a whole person or your whole brain. The story is out of context.

I wonder what would happen if you were using a computer for a video conversation.....it'd be fun to set that up, tell you different stories over the phone, over the computer "face to face", and really face to face, and check your memory. Hmmmmm......anyone need a dissertation topic for psych or maybe education?
 

Karen G

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I got 29 of 30--missed the guy from Star Trek, Patrick something. On a couple of them I knew them but couldn't think of their name. I had to Google Vinnie Barbarino to remember John Travolta! On Jennifer Aniston I had her first name but couldn't remember her last until I Googled Jennifer and it came up.
 

Rose Pink

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Okay. Just finished taking the test and can't remember my score. What does that mean? I think I got 25 out of 30 but didn't know who two of them were. There were a couple of them that didn't look familiar even though I know who they were after being told--they just didn't look like the picture. I wonder if it was the picture itself and that a different shot would have been more recognizable. And, I couldn't remember a few names even though I knew who they were.
 

Pens_Fan

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28/30

I didn't think the picture of Tony Blair looked like him.

I couldn't remember Mr. Bean's real name.
 

wackymother

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29/30. That picture of Tony Blair did NOT look like him! OTOH, I'm not sure I would recognize Tony Blair from most ordinary pictures, so I said I was not familiar with him...hence 100 percent on the test's scale.
 

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I got 100% on the test (30/30). I felt that it was also testing Pop culture somewhat since many of them were film/tv stars.

I believe that Oliver Sacks, the famous neurologist, also has this. His is extreme and he won't even recognize family members on the street out of context. Read an article he wrote in which he described trying to meet another neuroscientist who suffered from the same problem and they couldn't find each other at the designated meeting place- was humorous but also a little tragic. The father of Helena Bonham-Carter has something similar but can't "see" faces at all- I think resulted from a stroke. Funny how our brains work isn't it? There is so much that we don't know. Did anyone see the piece on 60 minutes about the Super Autobiographical Memory folks? Was also very interesting. Only 6 or 7 of them have been identified in the world and they can remember every day and every thing that has ever happened to them.

tlwmkw
 

Patri

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25 out of the 29 I was familiar with.
The second test was scary. They looked like museum heads. 12/18 of the ones I was familiar with. Slightly below average.

(And it's no big deal about giving your name. I just put my first. They have my junk email address).
 

K&PFitz

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I got 24 of the 28 I recognized. I also missed Tony Blair! Must have been a bad picture.

I'm bad with remembering names. Even with co-workers. Some mornings, I'll be lost for their name for a moment. A couple hours ago, Brad came to see the person in the next office, who was gone. I was going to tell her, except we have two Brads, and I was lost for his last name.

However, if you tell me someone's name, I will likely remember everything about them.

I've had the "opportunity" to start new jobs several times over the last few years. I make a practice of saying good morning to people and calling them by name. They may think I'm being nice, but I'm just trying to remember names.
 

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I believe that Oliver Sacks, the famous neurologist, also has this. His is extreme and he won't even recognize family members on the street out of context. Read an article he wrote in which he described trying to meet another neuroscientist who suffered from the same problem and they couldn't find each other at the designated meeting place- was humorous but also a little tragic.

tlwmkw

Oliver Sacks recently wrote a book about his face blindness and other things - "The Mind's Eye" - an interesting read
 

pjrose

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Oliver Sacks recently wrote a book about his face blindness and other things - "The Mind's Eye" - an interesting read

Sounds good - I'll look for it!

Last night we watched The Goodbye Girl (1977) on TV. One of the characters, the director in the horrible Shakespeare play, played by Paul Benedict, is very distinctive looking. I KNEW I had seen him before, but in what movie? I checked IMDB, but none of those shows fit the image in my head.

I kept thinking Animal House, but no, he wasn't in it. Nonetheless I had an image of him as a weird teacher in Animal House. DH finally figured out that I had him mixed up with Donald Sutherland, who did indeed play a weird teacher in Animal House. I checked photos, and maybe...though the hair is wrong.

It's really frustrating when when I DO remember a face, and can't figure it out! Grrrrr.
 

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I have this to a certain degree. I have to meet a person multiple times (usually 5 or 6 times) before I can recognize who they are and their name. It is kind of embarrassing at times, but I usually just smile and laugh and usually my daughter or husband is around to help out. When I have started new jobs, I always wrote down characteristics about the people I meet plus their names and memorized these facts. This allowed me to move forward quickly. However, I totally sympathesize immensely with your situation pjrose. Learning large numbers of new faces and names every five months is extremely difficult, so I truly feel for you.

I also have trouble with directions. I can only figure out directions and how to get to a place if I am driving. If I sit in the passenger seat I am no hope. It drives my husband crazy.

I am going to take the test now, but I am sure it is not going to go well. The funny thing is my ability to remember facts, figures and conversations is amazing. The wonders of the human mind.

Anita
 

pjrose

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. . .

I also have trouble with directions. I can only figure out directions and how to get to a place if I am driving. If I sit in the passenger seat I am no hope. It drives my husband crazy. . . .

Anita

Same with me, Anita. Even driving, I have to have it all planned out and memorized in advance. I have to really work hard to memorize each turn and landmark; there's a theatre that's kind of out of the way, but we have gone to it dozens of times. Each time DH drives I try to focus on his turns and repeat them out loud. I still don't have the nerve to try it alone - especially in the dark! And then if there's road construction and he takes a short cut.....forget it LOL

I follow directions if I first work with a map, highlight the route, write down the directions double spaced, numbered, with each step starting on a new line.....and then pick up my printed numbered directions and highlighted map every few minutes. But if someone says "go two blocks and turn right then left at West street then right at the second light....." at that point I'm covering my ears because it's so confusing I have to block it out. Draw it, and I'm ok though.

Let us know your score.

PS - wonder of wonders, we just got back from the grocery store where I recognized my 22 year-old son's first grade teacher and even figured out her name! I guess that's because I spent a lot of time volunteering at the school, but I'm still amazed.
 
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"Roger"

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Thanks for posting this. I admire your openness.

I had heard of prosopagnosia, but had mistakenly thought the condition was always the result of a stroke (and also did not realize that it came in degrees of severity). Your posts have helped me think about and understand the condition more clearly.

With regard to my prior knowledge, I remember one video in which a researcher was interviewing an elderly French woman. She was very distraught because she could no longer recognize even the most familiar of friends (until they spoke and introduced themselves). (Since this was a new condition for her, it was particularly frustrating.) At the end of the video, the researcher posted his own photo and stood near the projection of his facial image. When the woman was asked to describe what she saw in the photo, she made some mildly embarassing remarks. ("The person looks like he might have a skin disease. He should go see a doctor.") The woman had no idea she was commenting about a picture of the person she was talking to.

In another video, they followed a person through an airport. What they were trying to establish is that the person had perfect visual awareness, he just could not recognize faces. When his wife walked up to him, he was only able to recognize her via logical deduction. ("I don't think a stranger would come up this close to me. The woman is carrying a shopping bag wearing red shoes. This must be my wife.")

Reading you comments about Downton Abbey has helped give me insight into what having prosopagnosia would be like. I know when I watch old Charlie Chan films, I often have trouble keeping some of the characters straight in that they often look alike. (Different period of time with people having a different look which I am not used to.) On a recent trip to China, our guide joked during the end of trip that we were a nice group to work with and "we no longer all looked alike." (A reference to how we Americans will often say Chinese often all look alike.) I guess we all have the condition to some degree.

....
Having this difference has helped me when students say "I can't understand...." or "I have trouble with .....".
My own difficulty is distinguishing and imitating sounds. I was pulled out of third grade class and given speech lessons because my pronounciation was so poor. When I took a college French class, it was a disaster because of my poor ability to distinguish sounds and pronounce French words correctly. My wife gets frustrated when she hears me try to pronounce an unfamiliar name or a foreign word.

I was a teacher (now retired) and, strangely, I considered my experiences in French class to be a great benefit. When students had trouble with things that are natural to me (mathematical and logical relationships), I realized that it need not be because a lack of effort. It then became my job to try to find alternate ways to help them "see" (or hear) what was second nature to me. In other words, I think I was a better teacher because of my disability.

Best wishes ...
 

scrapngen

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Thanks for posting this. I admire your openness.

I had heard of prosopagnosia, but had mistakenly thought the condition was always the result of a stroke (and also did not realize that it came in degrees of severity). Your posts have helped me think about and understand the condition more clearly.

With regard to my prior knowledge, I remember one video in which a researcher was interviewing an elderly French woman. She was very distraught because she could no longer recognize even the most familiar of friends (until they spoke and introduced themselves). (Since this was a new condition for her, it was particularly frustrating.) At the end of the video, the researcher posted his own photo and stood near the projection of his facial image. When the woman was asked to describe what she saw in the photo, she made some mildly embarassing remarks. ("The person looks like he might have a skin disease. He should go see a doctor.") The woman had no idea she was commenting about a picture of the person she was talking to.

In another video, they followed a person through an airport. What they were trying to establish is that the person had perfect visual awareness, he just could not recognize faces. When his wife walked up to him, he was only able to recognize her via logical deduction. ("I don't think a stranger would come up this close to me. The woman is carrying a shopping bag wearing red shoes. This must be my wife.")

Reading you comments about Downton Abbey has helped give me insight into what having prosopagnosia would be like. I know when I watch old Charlie Chan films, I often have trouble keeping some of the characters straight in that they often look alike. (Different period of time with people having a different look which I am not used to.) On a recent trip to China, our guide joked during the end of trip that we were a nice group to work with and "we no longer all looked alike." (A reference to how we Americans will often say Chinese often all look alike.) I guess we all have the condition to some degree.

My own difficulty is distinguishing and imitating sounds. I was pulled out of third grade class and given speech lessons because my pronounciation was so poor. When I took a college French class, it was a disaster because of my poor ability to distinguish sounds and pronounce French words correctly. My wife gets frustrated when she hears me try to pronounce an unfamiliar name or a foreign word.

I was a teacher (now retired) and, strangely, I considered my experiences in French class to be a great benefit. When students had trouble with things that are natural to me (mathematical and logical relationships), I realized that it need not be because a lack of effort. It then became my job to try to find alternate ways to help them "see" (or hear) what was second nature to me. In other words, I think I was a better teacher because of my disability.

Best wishes ...

Hmmmmm.... I wonder if there's a name for those who can't make it through a calculus-based physics class to save their lives.... :( I literally never finished my engineering degree because of this stupid (for me) class that was required for the degree, but not necessary for a computer science major...!!!!!!!!!!

Shall I admit that not only did I not make it through, but had several friends AND my boyfriend who were all double math/physics majors as well as student teachers try to help me over a couple years time. Yet there was some point about half way through the class where I'd get stuck and could never progress past... Granted, I'm sure that I psyched myself out eventually, but I literally took this class 5-6 times and either dropped out or failed at the half-way point. Then I tried again after another year at a different school. Something about trying to map those problems where the boat drifts down the river at an angle while a duck is flying due South at 35 knots and a wind is blowing Southeast - so how fast is the train going???? I could draw tons of pictures of these bloody problems and no matter what I did, I'd end up with too many variables and no way to find the answer.

Mind you, I am a national merit scholar, had very high SAT and ACT scores without ever taking prep classes for them, and in general, am great at math. Straight A student type throughout school. (So not just good at taking tests) When I got past calculus to linear/matrix algebra I could practically solve equations in my sleep. But that physics class??? It still gives me nightmares 20 years later! What's up with that? And yet I can read/follow maps, am fairly spatial, etc.

The brain is a funny thing indeed...
 
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